Politics

[Renton 17820]

16 minutes ago, NJS said:

Would Smith have put forward a moderately socialist manifesto as Corbyn did which increased the youth vote or would his manifesto been Milliband 2?

 

I keep reading Yvette Cooper would have trounced May - if that the case I'm sure someone would have polled on it. 

 

The lib dem support ebbs and flows - I thought 2015 was their low point as punishment for coalition but you have to look at 2017 in terms of a further rejection of their brexit position. As I keep saying we all know it's a cluster fuck but softening it to the point of satisfying sensible people unfortunately means pissing off what according to polls is still the majority. I can't see any position Corbyn could take which will satisfy everyone. 

You honestly believe the majority of people want a hard Brexit? They don't, only the hard right and hard left (Lexiters) do. I've produced evidence in this very thread that the majority of leavers want to stay in the SM (EEA), doesn't really tally with what your saying. There's loads of other polls saying the same thing.

 

I'm sorry like, using the LD's poor polling last year is evidence people want a hard Brexit is bullshit straight out the JRM songsheet. 

[Renton 17820]

Also this myth about it being the labour heartlands voting Brexit, when we all know Brexit is mainly a conservative phenomenon. 

 

Bridget phillipson is vocally anti-brexit. I would bet my house she is re-elected (although not if they found out she isn't a MLF).

[Dr Gloom 19837]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

Ironically I think the Tories could've destroyed Labour by adopting that but they're balls deep into making Brexit appear as hard as possible with their 'will of the people' bullshit

and the travesty is labour are going along with it, and, by extension, facilitating the whole fucking charade 

[Alex 30445]

Meenz made the point too about identifying areas as Brexit / Remain is a mistake when it's more nuanced. Also, can't see staunch Labour areas in the North going blue and UKIP are an irrelevance in terms of votes

[Christmas Tree 3997]

I must admit I think the pendulum has swung back in Brexits favour. I was getting a bit frustrated a week or two ago, but now the backstop seems to be agreed, it’s all systems go.

 

Harping on about hard Brexit is pointless as nobody wants it and there is no majority for it. Once again dogged Theresa seems to have reeled in the likes of Boris and is heading for a 3rd consecutive EU agreement that puts the Irish issue to bed until long after we’ve left.

 

Even the 12 or so Tory rebels are fairly happy with the new backstop.

 

I think once she gets the actual deal agreed she will find herself with a very pleasing Brexit package that most Labour MP’s can get behind and it will sail through parliament.

 

 

[ewerk 26439]

Nothing has been agreed on the backstop.

[Rayvin 4964]

CT is on superb form with Brexit recently, it has to be said

[ewerk 26439]

He's trying too hard IMO.

[Dr Gloom 19837]

i don't want to think about the prime minister being pleased by any packages, thank you very much. 

[ewerk 26439]

 

Another one of those cracking trade deals in the pipeline.

[Alex 30445]

It's almost like we have less bargaining power. Just a good thing most countries love us

[Renton 17820]

1 hour ago, Christmas Tree said:

I must admit I think the pendulum has swung back in Brexits favour. I was getting a bit frustrated a week or two ago, but now the backstop seems to be agreed, it’s all systems go.

 

Harping on about hard Brexit is pointless as nobody wants it and there is no majority for it. Once again dogged Theresa seems to have reeled in the likes of Boris and is heading for a 3rd consecutive EU agreement that puts the Irish issue to bed until long after we’ve left.

 

Even the 12 or so Tory rebels are fairly happy with the new backstop.

 

I think once she gets the actual deal agreed she will find herself with a very pleasing Brexit package that most Labour MP’s can get behind and it will sail through parliament.

 

 

The backstop is staying in the SM and CU you plumb. 

 

Arlene seemed to be getting her knickers in a twist today btw. 

[ewerk 26439]

I can't see the EU agreeing to a backstop that keeps the entire UK aligned to the SM and CU.

Edited May 21, 2018 by ewerk

[Renton 17820]

35 minutes ago, ewerk said:

I can't see the EU agreeing to a backstop that keeps the entire UK aligned to the SM and CU.

Well what gives then? We have a clear agreement that there will be no border infrastructure, not even cameras. The government need the DUP who will never accept a wet border.

 

The choice between these mutually incompatible choices (and the red lines) is binary. Either stay completely aligned, or renege and crash. Do you think the latter will happen?

Edited May 21, 2018 by Renton

[Renton 17820]

Also, rereading, why would the EU object to a UK wide backstop that was essentially Norway plus? It'd be the perfect outcome for them. 

[Christmas Tree 3997]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

The backstop is staying in the SM and CU you plumb. 

 

 

 

No it’s not.

[Renton 17820]

19 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

No it’s not.

 

Go on then, explain what you think the backstop (which allows completely frictionless movement of people and goods with no infrastructure) is, with references please. Humour me. 

Edited May 21, 2018 by Renton

[Dr Gloom 19837]

Please don’t 

[ewerk 26439]

2 hours ago, Renton said:

Also, rereading, why would the EU object to a UK wide backstop that was essentially Norway plus? It'd be the perfect outcome for them. 

Because it preempts trade talks. Basically giving the UK access for goods into the SM without any of the requirements to make budgetary contributions or accept FOM.

[Alex 30445]

1 hour ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

No it’s not.

Oh yes it is!

[ewerk 26439]

I don’t see how the government can claim that the backstop will only apply for a few months. It isn’t like the solution will magically appear in that timescale.

[Renton 17820]

16 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Because it preempts trade talks. Basically giving the UK access for goods into the SM without any of the requirements to make budgetary contributions or accept FOM.

 

No reason they can't demand budgetary contributions and FOM during the transition, in fact I thought this was pretty much agreed. We're in no position to say no. 

[Renton 17820]

11 minutes ago, ewerk said:

I don’t see how the government can claim that the backstop will only apply for a few months. It isn’t like the solution will magically appear in that timescale.

 

Aye. Even if the perfect technology is invented, it simply won't work. How will it stop smuggling, fraud, or allow for phytosanitary checks? It's a problem that won't go away, ever. 

 

People will get so sick of it. The demographics will have changed so that a clear majority will want back in. Madness. 

[Christmas Tree 3997]

8 hours ago, Renton said:

 

Aye. Even if the perfect technology is invented, it simply won't work. How will it stop smuggling, fraud, or allow for phytosanitary checks? It's a problem that won't go away, ever. 

 

People will get so sick of it. The demographics will have changed so that a clear majority will want back in. Madness. 

 

No one is worried about a tiny amount of smuggling across a very open border. It will just be dealt with by police rather than customs.

 

As people see that Brexit has happened and the world hasn’t stopped, investment in the U.K. is growing, the economy is rising and the New Tory PM is splashing preelection bribes around, nobody will want to revisit EU membership.

 

Its over.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

And imagine if it’s Ruth Davidson v Corbyn? Goodnight Vienna.