Alex 30429 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: I thought the best way out of this was allowing NI a referendum so it was the “people’s” decision rather than parliament intruding on devolution. Are you inferring that regarding the result of a referendum as 'the will of the people' requires some qualification? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Alex said: Fairly obvious I'd have thought. Making money for their mates at the expense of the taxpayer. Just like Gideon did previously Same with Royal Mail, chin chin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30429 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 On BBC Breakfast this morning it was on about the headline of the Mail which focussed on that 100 year old lady who died after being mugged and the rise in violent crime in general (up 50% in some areas supposedly). It brought to mind Cameron's successful 'Broken Britain' rhetoric but what really struck me is how we've got to the point that the Daily fucking Mail is more effective at attacking a shambolic Tory government than the opposition is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Alex said: On BBC Breakfast this morning it was on about the headline of the Mail which focussed on that 100 year old lady who died after being mugged and the rise in violent crime in general (up 50% in some areas supposedly). It brought to mind Cameron's successful 'Broken Britain' rhetoric but what really struck me is how we've got to the point that the Daily fucking Mail is more effective at attacking a shambolic Tory government than the opposition is. Aye but that's just a sweet spot for the Mail. They'd have a police state if they could, so attacking the government over policing cuts is a bread and butter topic for them. This violent crime wave stuff really does seem to be hitting the Tories hard now though. In fact, in a non-Brexit alternate universe it would probably be the main focal point of political discourse right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30429 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Just now, Rayvin said: Aye but that's just a sweet spot for the Mail. They'd have a police state if they could, so attacking the government over policing cuts is a bread and butter topic for them. This violent crime wave stuff really does seem to be hitting the Tories hard now though. In fact, in a non-Brexit alternate universe it would probably be the main focal point of political discourse right now. I agree with you about the Mail but I barely recall hearing a whimper about it from the opposition which is more the point. Perhaps I've missed it and I'm being unfair but I've got to the stage now where I think Corbyn's a coward who hides behind his 'principles' when it comes to attacking May et al on issues such as this. You know, all that decency bollocks which sounds nice, but in practice is about as much use Anne Frank's drum kit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Alex said: I agree with you about the Mail but I barely recall hearing a whimper about it from the opposition which is more the point. Perhaps I've missed it and I'm being unfair but I've got to the stage now where I think Corbyn's a coward who hides behind his 'principles' when it comes to attacking May et al on issues such as this. You know, all that decency bollocks which sounds nice, but in practice is about as much use Anne Frank's drum kit I doubt you've missed it, although I daresay that Corbyn has raised policing cuts with the government on many occasions since that's well within his ideological comfort zone. The issue really, as we've identified before, is that he simply can't whip up the media into a frenzy about any of it - so he may as well not be saying a damn thing. I still don't think he's a coward though. Or if he is, I'd like to know how? It's kind of the same thing people say about terrorists - that their devotion to their principles somehow makes them cowardly. They're wrong in what they do, and clearly committing acts of evil, but blowing yourself up for a cause sure as shit isn't cowardly. Corbyn sticking to his guns despite everything can be called stupid, intransigent, and strategically useless to the point of being counter productive... but I don't think it's cowardly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30429 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 There's a difference between devotion to your principles and hiding behind purported ones. Unbelievable comparison btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26391 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 19 minutes ago, Alex said: On BBC Breakfast this morning it was on about the headline of the Mail which focussed on that 100 year old lady who died after being mugged and the rise in violent crime in general (up 50% in some areas supposedly). It brought to mind Cameron's successful 'Broken Britain' rhetoric but what really struck me is how we've got to the point that the Daily fucking Mail is more effective at attacking a shambolic Tory government than the opposition is. Have they actually attacked the government though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30429 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 I don't know. Like the average Mail reader, I've only seen the headline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14055 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, Alex said: There's a difference between devotion to your principles and hiding behind purported ones. Unbelievable comparison btw Well, I try. How is he hiding behind purported principles though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26391 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 I'm not sure how much killing he got to do in the TA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30429 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Just now, Rayvin said: Well, I try. How is he hiding behind purported principles though? He's spent his career on the backbenches (a bit like Skinner) being so 'principled' he's not actually able to make any real positive impact on the lives of his constituents. By carrying this over into his leadership in a manner which makes him less likely to be elected than were he to 'play the game' a bit he's effectively doing the same thing. Just my opinion, obviously. I'm incredibly frustrated with him, as you can probably tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30429 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, Meenzer said: She advertising his services as male escort? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14055 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Maybe he's resigning so he can go on Love Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, Alex said: He's spent his career on the backbenches (a bit like Skinner) being so 'principled' he's not actually able to make any real positive impact on the lives of his constituents. By carrying this over into his leadership in a manner which makes him less likely to be elected than were he to 'play the game' a bit he's effectively doing the same thing. Just my opinion, obviously. I'm incredibly frustrated with him, as you can probably tell. I am as well, although I'm starting to hit apathy. But he did almost take control of parliament by sticking to his guns. At the time, we thought that was a huge victory. Over time we've reduced the role Corbyn played in that and increased the role the Tories being fucking stupid played in it. But he did come fucking close to sinking them. Closer than Miliband. (Renton incoming) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30429 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I am as well, although I'm starting to hit apathy. But he did almost take control of parliament by sticking to his guns. At the time, we thought that was a huge victory. Over time we've reduced the role Corbyn played in that and increased the role the Tories being fucking stupid played in it. But he did come fucking close to sinking them. Closer than Miliband. (Renton incoming) Another way of looking at that is he might've won with a few relatively small compromises to those principles Edited June 7, 2018 by Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Just now, Alex said: Another way of looking at that is he might've won with a few relatively small compromises to those principles I don't know about that tbh, I think the cloud of Brexit made it a certainty for the Tories. But having said that, like what? I'm struggling to think of anything he said that would have lost him votes apart from the stuff about nuclear bombs (which he did compromise on). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17797 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I am as well, although I'm starting to hit apathy. But he did almost take control of parliament by sticking to his guns. At the time, we thought that was a huge victory. Over time we've reduced the role Corbyn played in that and increased the role the Tories being fucking stupid played in it. But he did come fucking close to sinking them. Closer than Miliband. (Renton incoming) Aye, I'm here. He lost against Theresa May with a terrible manifesto. He's still fucking losing despite the government being shambolic and the country going down the pan on every metric. Oh aye, and Grenfell. And Windrush. I'm astonished you STILL think he's doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Renton said: Aye, I'm here. He lost against Theresa May with a terrible manifesto. He's still fucking losing despite the government being shambolic and the country going down the pan on every metric. Oh aye, and Grenfell. And Windrush. I'm astonished you STILL think he's doing well. I don't...? I'm just saying that he's not a coward. And that our views on that GE result have changed markedly over time, I think to confirm our biases personally, but with a significant dose of Brexit related fury thrown in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14055 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 He needed to be a lot stronger on the IRA stuff too, for example. It shouldn't be an issue when there's real problems facing the country, but it's exactly the kind of thing that sticks (and has now stuck, irrevocably) with the middle-England voters you need if you want to actually win an election, and it's unrealistic to believe otherwise. Ditto getting a couple of people on his team who are more friendly to those voters and putting them out there to do the talking for you when necessary. Know your audience, basically. Of course, "if you want to actually win" may be the key phrase here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted June 7, 2018 Author Share Posted June 7, 2018 There’s lots of good people in Labour who I think would be romping ahead in the polls if leader. However I’m not sure who the 2 or 3 darlings from the left are that fit that bill. Obviously the way the voting is now done only a left winger is going to replace him. I wish John Ashworth was a Tory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30429 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I don't know about that tbh, I think the cloud of Brexit made it a certainty for the Tories. But having said that, like what? I'm struggling to think of anything he said that would have lost him votes apart from the stuff about nuclear bombs (which he did compromise on). A certainty for the Tories but they couldn't secure a majority? Meenzer already answered the other bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30429 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Christmas Tree said: There’s lots of good people in Labour who I think would be romping ahead in the polls if leader. However I’m not sure who the 2 or 3 darlings from the left are that fit that bill. Obviously the way the voting is now done only a left winger is going to replace him. I wish John Ashworth was a Tory Shush, adults are talking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30429 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 I'd also add that if he's so principled, why didn't he campaign under the banner of hard Brexit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now