Gemmill 36184 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 What did you say to the bloke when he dropped that bombshell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/debunked-polio-vaccine-and-hiv-link Indeed, as i said 'probably' which was over-stating it a bit. However.... the only other plausible theory is the transmission of SIV from apes to humans during hunting. What keeps the mystery alive and the vaccine hypothesis warm (or tepid) is that SIV has been common in apes for centuries and man has been hunting and fighting them all that time (how the virus is hypothesised to have been transmitted, by bite during a hunt). Why then did suddenly in a very specific period of the 20th century did SIV decide to jump species all at once? A question that does not necessarily invoke a discussion of vaccines of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 What did you say to the bloke when he dropped that bombshell? "Aye never mind all that, how fucking shite is Titus?" Nah, i actually tried to explain the difference between a trial and a series of observations but started with 'its not my area of expertise and i am not qualified to comment' and then avoided actually discussing MMR and focused on the broader conceptual issues around scientific research. Then, he honestly pulled that line above because whatever had happened, he was a sound bloke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Do you have any knowledge of the Fluenz Tetra vaccine, Chez? Would you let the bairns have it? No knowledge. I have not given mine all the vaccines on offer from the system here (more than in UK). Not because they are risky per se but that the balance of evidence for and possible risks against just means its hardly matters either way so why bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 No knowledge. I have not given mine all the vaccines on offer from the system here (more than in UK). Not because they are risky per se but that the balance of evidence for and possible risks against just means its hardly matters either way so why bother. The problem is more people don't think like you, me and catmag. So what happens is that for instance in some American states chidren have have 25 vaccines and boosters byu the time they are 5. I don't care anyone says that can't be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 There are billions to made from a new vaccine, cue Ebola Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6149 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Who is going to pay for it? Doesn't make sense to release it in the 3rd world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4984 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 It's in the states now, mind... they might well get the vaccine moving, if they haven't already. The problem is more people don't think like you, me and catmag. So what happens is that for instance in some American states chidren have have 25 vaccines and boosters byu the time they are 5. I don't care anyone says that can't be good. Are there large numbers of people giving their kids every vaccine going..? I could see that for overseas travel I suppose, but I don't recall too many vaccinations through my childhood. Aside from that though, isn't it more dangerous if people aren't giving their kids vaccines on the basis of relatively unfounded research (and I acknowledge the highly salient discussion on this above by Chez), and leading them to suffer the consequences? I agree that people shouldn't just take vaccines left, right and centre, but at the same time, people should be given all of the information to make an informed decision, not hoodwinked by people trying to make a fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 If you catch Chex in a good mood he'll tell you all the vaccines that are crap or iffy with regard efficacy (posh vaccine chat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3323 Posted October 3, 2014 Author Share Posted October 3, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29442642 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 20234 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 i never had the bcg. my mother wasn't having it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18294 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 The problem is more people don't think like you, me and catmag. So what happens is that for instance in some American states chidren have have 25 vaccines and boosters byu the time they are 5. I don't care anyone says that can't be good. What a ridiculously patronising comment that is. It's obviously never crossed your mind that just because people 'don't think like you' they might not have thought about it themselves and come up with there own conclusions, different to yours but almost certainly more rational. Chez has already admitted he isn't a vaccination expert and in any case, he's a health economist, not a scientist. I've done enough research and know enough immunologists as well as public health professionals to know your last sentence isn't based on any logic at all. The US over treat and probably over vaccinate, I agree, from a resource use perspective. But show me one piece of evidence that multiple vaccinations cause damage to children, and I don't mean a link to a loony website. Because it appears you're running on complete parky gut instinct on this one, which is never good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) Bit late to the party Mr Boombasitc! I do patronise the masses cause they're idiots and history and the state of the world proves it. 11.6m $ was paid out to a victim of the flu vaccine just this June Renty. On February 8, 2013, Sarah Behie (“petitioner”) filed a petition for compensation underthe National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (“the Program”)2 alleging that she sufferedGuillain-Barré syndrome (“GBS”), which was caused by an influenza (“flu”) vaccineadministered to her on October 5, 2010. See Petition (“Pet.”) at ¶¶1-7. Since the first National Vaccine Injury Compensation (VICP) claims were filed in 1989, 3,720 compensation awards have been made. More than $2.7 billion in compensation awards has been paid to petitioners and more than $115.7 million has been paid to cover attorneys' fees and other legal costs. http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data.html They aren't totally safe. Multiple vaccines increase the risk. Common sense. I'm not totally against them however as I've given Parky Jnr most of them...But spread them out. If you have children you would know your gut instict is as important as stats. Edited October 3, 2014 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) And we both know that only a small percentage go through all the hassle of claiming and and they are only a percentage of the people who even suspect that it is the vaccine. You could easily triple those numbers. Edited October 3, 2014 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18294 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Bit late to the party Mr Boombasitc! I do patronise the masses cause they're idiots and history and the state of the world proves it. 11.6m $ was paid out to a victim of the flu vaccine just this June Renty. On February 8, 2013, Sarah Behie (petitioner) filed a petition for compensation under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (the Program)2 alleging that she suffered Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS), which was caused by an influenza (flu) vaccine administered to her on October 5, 2010. See Petition (Pet.) at ¶¶1-7. Since the first National Vaccine Injury Compensation (VICP) claims were filed in 1989, 3,720 compensation awards have been made. More than $2.7 billion in compensation awards has been paid to petitioners and more than $115.7 million has been paid to cover attorneys' fees and other legal costs. http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data.html They aren't totally safe. Multiple vaccines increase the risk. Common sense. I'm not totally against them however as I've given Parky Jnr most of them...But spread them out. If you have children you would know your gut instict is as important as stats. Both mine are fully vaccinated parky, not a doubt in my mind this was the right thing having have had the benefit of being paid to do a fair amount of research on this. But even without that, I think it's much better to trust healthcare professionals than gut instinct. If you knew anything about immunology you'd know that the immune system copes with thousands of threats every day. You can 'spread out' the vaccinations by all means, but all you're going to achieve by that is increasing the risk of disease to your child, the cost to yourself, and possibly distress yo your child (eg by splitting MMR). Anyway, do watt you want for your family by all means, just don't insult or patronise others while you make your own misinformed decision, is what I'm saying. P.s. Cut and paste googled anecdotes, especially ones based on legal matters, don't really interest me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Well I'm sure the 2.8 billion $ compensation was some comfort to those whose children are fucked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18294 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 And we both know that only a small percentage go through all the hassle of claiming and and they are only a percentage of the people who even suspect that it is the vaccine. You could easily triple those numbers. More meaningless googling. You need to show me some real evidence for what you're claiming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) Those are all the people who have claimed in America and the percentage who have been paid out Renty....The Govt has a special fund for it...You only had to click the link. Personally think the drug companies (how many recalls are there every year of drugs?) should have to pay. http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html I sense the dissapointment that you didn't find a suitable loony site link. Edited October 3, 2014 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooner 243 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 And we both know that only a small percentage go through all the hassle of claiming and and they are only a percentage of the people who even suspect that it is the vaccine. You could easily triple those numbers. HF have a word with Parky please....his chart doesn't have any headings in the columns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18294 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Those are all the people who have claimed in America and the percentage who have been paid out Renty....The Govt has a special fund for it...You only had to click the link. Personally think the drug companies (how many recalls are there every year of drugs?) should have to pay. http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html I sense the dissapointment that you didn't find a suitable loony site link. A lot, maybe all, of those claims may be due to guilt from association, rather than causation. The US is ridiculously over litigated, as you well know, are you really using this as your evidence for the harms of vaccines? No proper peer reviewed research I notice. Besides which, I've never said vaccines are harmless. Of course they have the potential for harm, everything with benefits generally also has a risk of harm. Imo, and nearly all healthcare professional's opinion, the benefit of vaccines vastly outweighs the negatives. But I'd like to see your evidence for spreading vaccinations out if you don't mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) You know as well as I do there are no studies on it. And stop cracking on about healthcare 'professionals' as if they are some kind of gods...There are good doctors and bad doctors as we both know and you of all poeple should admit the pofit motive associated with mass vaccination scares and so on...Our recent history is littered with it. Anyway you have to keep an eye on German doctors...Has history taught you nothing!! Edited October 3, 2014 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooner 243 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 HF have a word with Parky please....his chart doesn't have any headings in the columns. Ok Fine I will put them up then Vaccine Filed Compensated Dismissed Injury Death Total Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18294 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 You know as well as I do there are no studies on it. And stop cracking on about healthcare 'professionals' as if they are some kind of gods...There are good doctors and bad doctors as we both know and you of all poeple should admit the pofit motive associated with mass vaccination scares and so on...Our recent history is littered with it. No, you're wrong, there are dozens of epidemiological studies proving the safety of vaccines which you either don't understand or ignore. You have no education in healthcare matters but like to use your emotional feelings to guide your decision making including your 'common sense'. Fair enough, I tend to trust the people who do it for a living on government sector wages, and am part of that world, I admit. Not sure want you mean by the 'bad doctor' bit, no shit Sherlock, what's your point? Wakefield had financial motivation to make scare stories about MMR btw. Not sure why you think pharma shouldn't profit from vaccinations either, that's what they're about. But show me proof multiple vaccinations are harmful, if you can... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) The witch doctor told me. *There are no studies on it being safer if you spread them out. That's why you keep asking me to 'prove it'.... I didn't mean there are no studies on vaccine safety per se. But rant away. Edited October 3, 2014 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3323 Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 Parky = Wolfy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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