Terrorism

[Dr Gloom 19834]

The US and UK claim their motives for intervening in the middle east are to stop evil doers like Saddam.  Is that the reality?  Or is that an excuse that can be used to garner support among their population for sending their young men and women to die in order to protect our own interests?

 

Do you not think ISIS take a similar approach to convincing people to kill themselves?  Try to convince idiots that it's a just and noble holy cause, when they obviously know it's polictical power wrangling.

 

i agree with you, and with adam curtis, that the UK and US have tried to justify foreign invasions on false pretences. they make shit up to hide a more disturbing reality - the stuff curtis revealed on gadaffi's role as a soft target pantomime villain being a great example. 

 

i don't know whether the power brokers at the top of the organisations like isis buy into their own twisted take on islam, or whether they're simply using it as a recruitment tool to turn people into human bombs so they can spread fear and help grab land and power. i suspect the former tbh. 

Edited November 3, 2016 by Dr Gloom

[Park Life 70]

“The most important source of ISIS financing to date has been support coming out of the Gulf states, primarily Saudi Arabia but also Qatar, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates,” (According to Dr. Günter Meyer, Director of the Center for Research into the Arabic World at University of Mainz, Germany,  Deutsche Welle)"

 

[aimaad22 3472]

you have to go back to square one when people suggest that the west created jihadis. yes, the US and the UK helped create an environment where they could flourish, but the notion of jihad as a holy war or crusade against the non believers comes from the quoran, doesn't it? 

 

and i'm quite happy not to get back into the burqa debate with you, it's been exhausted and i think we both know where we each stand on it  

 

Its not about what the West created or didnt. Im talking about the debate we've previously had about whats at the root of all violence. 

 

The Middle East has been a violent shithole for 2,000 years. The Islamic violence has migrated to Europe because the violent Islamic people have migrated to Europe

 

Yeah thank goodness Europe and the rest of the world have not had any violence in that period. 

 

Are you referring to refugees as migrants?

[Kid Dynamite 5936]

not a million miles away is it?

 

That was harsh tbf, there's taking the piss out of his pointy head or Fish's baldy napper and then there calling someone a fat cunt

[Dr Gloom 19834]

“The most important source of ISIS financing to date has been support coming out of the Gulf states, primarily Saudi Arabia but also Qatar, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates,” (According to Dr. Günter Meyer, Director of the Center for Research into the Arabic World at University of Mainz, Germany,  Deutsche Welle)"

 

 

there's no question the west indirectly help prop up the likes of isis. not the first time the US has ended up arming someone before starting war with them tbh. something's got to keep the military industrial complex ticking over

[Happy Face 29]

i agree with you, and with adam curtis, that the UK and US have tried to justify foreign invasions on false pretences. they make shit up to hide a more disturbing reality - the stuff curtis revealed on gadaffi's role as a soft target pantomime villain being a great example. 

 

i don't know whether the power brokers at the top of the organisations like isis buy into their own twisted take on islam, or whether they're simply using it as a recruitment tool to turn people into human bombs so they can spread fear and help grab land and power. i suspect the former tbh. 

 

I suspect it's all of the above.  Chris Morris covered it off quite effectively in Four Lions I think.  One thick religious fuck head, one thick angry radgee fuckhead, one thick simpleton fuck head and one politicised fuck head,  The one that brought the rest together, organised them and used each of the others foibles to plan an attack was the most clued up political of all the fuck heads.  The other 3 would have been harmless fuck heads without him.

[Dr Gloom 19834]

That was harsh tbf, there's taking the piss out of his pointy head or Fish's baldy napper and then there calling someone a fat cunt

 

fuck off man  

 

piss taking is fair game if you post a personal picture on a public forum. i remember CT having a pop at Meenzer for being overweight after seeing his TV appearance and i don't recall martin flouncing. tbf, CT has always had fairly thick skin in the that regard, literally and figuratively

[aimaad22 3472]

you have to go back to square one when people suggest that the west created jihadis. yes, the US and the UK helped create an environment where they could flourish, but the notion of jihad as a holy war or crusade against the non believers comes from the quoran, doesn't it? 

 

The word jihad literally means to strive, not holy war. Thats an interpretation commonly used by the likes of ISIS and apparently widely accepted in the West as well for convenience. Which is why I've always been of the view people will use what they want for power. I blame the Saudis more than the West for problems in the middle east.

 

Might also be relevant to keeping in mind the thread tite that more innocent civilians were killed in Yemen yesterday. But as has been explained to me previously that doesnt constitute terrorism or matter generally since they're in a shithole far far away.

[Dr Gloom 19834]

it is absolutely terrorism and it's a disgrace that the west is turning a blind eye. not that they could do otherwise given "we" armed the saudis 

[Rayvin 4964]

The word jihad literally means to strive, not holy war. Thats an interpretation commonly used by the likes of ISIS and apparently widely accepted in the West as well for convenience. Which is why I've always been of the view people will use what they want for power. I blame the Saudis more than the West for problems in the middle east.

 

Might also be relevant to keeping in mind the thread tite that more innocent civilians were killed in Yemen yesterday. But as has been explained to me previously that doesnt constitute terrorism or matter generally since they're in a shithole far far away.

 

What's the main cause of the violence in Yemen? The usual Sunni/Shiite thing?

[Rayvin 4964]

it is absolutely terrorism and it's a disgrace that the west is turning a blind eye. not that they could do otherwise given "we" armed the saudis 

 

Yes, that vote last week was deplorable. More evidence of Western meddling.

[aimaad22 3472]

What's the main cause of the violence in Yemen? The usual Sunni/Shiite thing?

 

Yep. Its another Syria in the making. US backed Saudi led coalition targeting the shiite Houthi rebels who'd launched an offensive on the capital. They were perceived as being, and probably are, backed by Iran. 

[Rayvin 4964]

Yep. Its another Syria in the making. US backed Saudi led coalition targeting the shiite Houthi rebels who'd launched an offensive on the capital. They were perceived as being, and probably are, backed by Iran. 

 

Great. And yet another fantastic example of Western foreign policy in action, although at least there are no consequences to this on home soil. Apparently.

[Renton 17817]

'I want it banned', 'Corbyn's ruined MY party'

 

you're like a man sized toddler

Ironic because you always come across as an angst sixth former.

 

Plenty of things are banned, including clothing. We have decency laws, and contrary to what HF thinks you can't walk around the streets wearing an IRA style balaclava or wear a motorcycle helmet in a shop or public office.

 

For me the burqa is simply a dehumanising apparel. I don't think it's illiberal to ban things that are dehumanising. So you either disagree it's dehumanising, or you're willing to accept it in the name of liberal freedom. I'm not. Interestingly, an entire country 30 miles away from us agrees with my viewpoint and not yours.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Renton

[Renton 17817]

And fuck off with this Reazes shit btw.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Renton

[Kid Dynamite 5936]

Ironic because you always come across as an angst sixth former.

 

Plenty of things are banned, including clothing. We have decency laws, and contrary to what HF thinks you can't walk around the streets wearing an IRA style balaclava or wear a motorcycle helmet in a shop or public office.

 

For me the burqa is simply a dehumanising apparel. I don't think it's illiberal to ban things that are dehumanising. So you either disagree it's dehumanising, or you're willing to accept it in the name of liberal freedom. I'm not. Interestingly, an entire country 30 miles away from us agrees with my viewpoint and not yours.

An entire country agrees with you? Or the few in power who make decisions?

 

I'm not sure France, with its race riots, huge immigrant camps and ever expanding terrorism problem is a shining beacon either

[Renton 17817]

An entire country agrees with you? Or the few in power who make decisions?

 

I'm not sure France, with its race riots, huge immigrant camps and ever expanding terrorism problem is a shining beacon either

Well the French believe in fraternity which is a bit lacking in this country. If you're citing the burqa ban as the reason for terrorism then I think you have unwittingly alluded to a bigger problem which personally I think we have to face up to.

 

Iirc in polls a majority of people in the UK think full face coverings in public should be banned fwiw.

 

Edit: massive majority oppose the burqa in the UK. This board is completely unrepresentative.

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/31/majority-public-backs-burka-ban/

Edited November 3, 2016 by Renton

[Rayvin 4964]

Yeah but the majority also voted for Brexit... I see your points but let's not pull at that thread...

[Renton 17817]

Yeah but the majority also voted for Brexit... I see your points but let's not pull at that thread...

Aye tiny majority did but I see your point. It was J69 implying it was only a few politicians I was pointing out was not true; it has public support.

 

Fwiw I still don't think my issues with face coverings as been adequately responded to on here, rather I get a barrage of ad hominem attacks for going against the grain.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Renton

[Rayvin 4964]

I see your point FWIW. I think we should combat what Islam does to women with respect of Burqas and so on by combating the ideology with our own progressive values. Unfortunately, we don't do this. I'm not sure banning it would be helpful though, wouldn't it just entrench antisocial feelings in a community that's already isolated?

 

On the topic of France generally, I was staggered that their PM came out and told the French people that they were just going to have to 'get used to terrorism'. The French are at each other's throats over this as much as we are, possibly even more so.

[Dr Gloom 19834]

i think a full burqa makes most us feel a bit uneasy, if we're all honest. but we're all a bit too british and a bit too right on, on this board, to say so. well, most of us.

 

it's also ironic because most on the hard left would also say they're feminist. there's absolutely nothing feminist about a burqa 

[Kid Dynamite 5936]

Yeah well you said an entire country agreed with your views which is equally untrue so it's a draw

 

This board is unrepresentative I agree. Most people on here are intelligent, sensible, capable of reasoned thinking and sympathetic to those less fortunate than themselves. Large swathes of the population aren't. There's a reason Leazes, Stevie and the likes don't peddle their shite on here anymore

[Renton 17817]

@ Rayvin. France has double the proportion of Muslims living there than us, and arguably worse domestic intelligence. Unfortunately he population will have to get use to it, is he not just being candid? Shit situation all round.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Renton

[Renton 17817]

Yeah well you said an entire country agreed with your views which is equally untrue so it's a draw

 

This board is unrepresentative I agree. Most people on here are intelligent, sensible, capable of reasoned thinking and sympathetic to those less fortunate than themselves. Large swathes of the population aren't. There's a reason Leazes, Stevie and the likes don't peddle their shite on here anymore

It's not a competition. Why don't you actually address my points rather than play the man?

[Renton 17817]

For instance, is the burqa dehumanising or not? ANSWER THE QUESTION!