Being realistic

[Kid Dynamite 5934]

I'm not sure he's an improvement on Taylor or Williamson. There would have been hell on on here if we had signed Huth. Which other established CB could we have signed? The knock on of every club getting a fortune in TV money is that no one needs to sell to survive anymore. The bottom 3 clubs can afford to hold out for the money they want for their players. See Austin at QPR

Edited September 24, 2015 by StraightEdgeWizard

[Happy Face 29]

Huth follows me on Twitter and I have no idea why.

[Alex 30440]

Misread sorry, same point applies though. Which established premier league players moved?

There were loads man. You saying all these went to clubs we can't compete with and/or wouldn't have gotten a game for us / improvede the squad? Artur Boruc, Sylvain Distin, Glenn Murray, Petr Cech, Scott Sinclair, Micah Richards, Joleon Lescott, Asmir Begovic, Yohan Cabaye, Tom Cleverley, Aaron Lennon, Robert Huth, etc., etc.

 

[Alex 30440]

I'm not sure he's an improvement on Taylor or Williamson. There would have been hell on on here if we had signed Huth. Which other established CB could we have signed? The knock on of every club getting a fortune in TV money is that no one needs to sell to survive anymore. The bottom 3 clubs can afford to hold out for the money they want for their players. See Austin at QPR

He's not an improvement on Williamson? You're taking the piss now. Who else? Micah Richards. You saying we can't compete with Villa?

[strawb 3660]

Confidence is a massive issue in football, the same player can look 10 times better when he is confident in not only himself but his team mates. I think this is the main problem we are having/have had for ages.

 

Where this confidence comes from is why certain managers make millions and not easy to fake.

[Dr Gloom 19828]

i thought richards and lescott would have both been good buys to boost our piss weak options at defence. they both know the league and can cover two positions. question marks about whether their best days are behind them but still more attractive at first change than the likes of williamson, dummet or the unproven kid lascalles

Edited September 24, 2015 by Dr Gloom

[Dr Gloom 19828]

Confidence is a massive issue in football, the same player can look 10 times better when he is confident in not only himself but his team mates. I think this is the main problem we are having/have had for ages.

 

Where this confidence comes from is why certain managers make millions and not easy to fake.

 

picking the right players to fit a formation will get the confidence going. it's basics innit? get the players playing in roles they like and the confidence will hopefully follow.

 

has has to realise the way he's going about things isn't working. if he insists on playing one up top, don't play cisse on his own with no other strikers near him. or de jong up front on his own, when he likes to play off a front man. mitrovic looks the only one really suited to playing as a lone striker in his current formation. so when he's inevitably suspended, i'd like to see a manager flexible enough to mix it up.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Dr Gloom

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

NEED A NEW SYSTEM.

[Rayvin 4964]

We actually played reasonably well in a few games prior to mitrovic's suspension, which is the only thing offering any semblance of positivity here. Maybe the team shape will somehow work better when he's back.

 

Other than that, they look shot of confidence in my opinion...

[Kid Dynamite 5934]

There were loads man. You saying all these went to clubs we can't compete with and/or wouldn't have gotten a game for us / improvede the squad? Artur Boruc, Sylvain Distin, Glenn Murray, Petr Cech, Scott Sinclair, Micah Richards, Joleon Lescott, Asmir Begovic, Yohan Cabaye, Tom Cleverley, Aaron Lennon, Robert Huth, etc., etc.

 

I'd have Cech, he wouldn't have come to us. Ca aye can fuck off after going on strike. Richards, Sinclair, Cleverley, Lennon? We did those days buying Parker, Duff, Butt etc. good clubs don't get rid of good players. There's a reason they are playing for the likes of Villa and no one else. Do we really need Palace's rejects in Glenn Murray?

 

Look at the surprise packages, Swansea and Southampton. Who are their best players, Gomis, Ayew, Montero, Mane, Pelle, etc. foreigners and we were linked with half of them ourselves!

 

I'm sorry but I disagree that us buying a 37 year old Distin or 33 year old Lescott wouldn't have won us any more games than we have currently imo. I think everyone's in agreement that Austin would have improved the squad. Lukaku would have improved us but we aren't about to pay £30mil for him. Milner would have but we don't pay £200k on wages. Sterling would have but we'd have no chance at signing him.

 

It's easy sitting at home playing football manager and pointing out mistakes in hindsight but we are competing against 20 premier league teams for every player. Palace are more attractive than us simply because they are in London.

Edited September 24, 2015 by StraightEdgeWizard

[Alex 30440]

I'd have Cech, he wouldn't have come to us. Ca aye can fuck off after going on strike. Richards, Sinclair, Cleverley, Lennon? We did those days buying Parker, Duff, Butt etc. good clubs don't get rid of good players. There's a reason they are playing for the likes of Villa and no one else. Do we really need Palace's rejects in Glenn Murray?

 

Look at the surprise packages, Swansea and Southampton. Who are their best players, Gomis, Ayew, Montero, Mane, Pelle, etc. foreigners and we were linked with half of them ourselves!

 

I'm sorry but I disagree that us buying a 37 year old Distin or 33 year old Lescott wouldn't have won us any more games than we have currently imo. I think everyone's in agreement that Austin would have improved the squad. Lukaku would have improved us but we aren't about to pay £30mil for him. Milner would have but we don't pay £200k on wages. Sterling would have but we'd have no chance at signing him.

 

It's easy sitting at home playing football manager and pointing out mistakes in hindsight but we are competing against 20 premier league teams for every player. Palace are more attractive than us simply because they are in London.

You asked which established PL players moved. I gave you a load of examples. I didn't say we should sign them all. You were the one who inferred no established PL players moved in the last transfer window, it was a response to that.

What I'm getting at is you need a happy medium whereby you don't just sign young, unproven foreigners because it's too risky. You need to get people in, a la Richards, Lescott, Huth or whoever to do a job from time to time. Especially when you just missed out on relegation on the last day of the previous season. I think it's reasonable to argue some experienced pros could have been signed to 'steady the ship' so to speak and mean we weren't relying on a load of new signings who'd never played in the league to hit the ground running. But there's little chance of selling them on at a profit, hence why I think we didn't pursue those types of players, which was the original point I made. Obviously just signing other PL teams cast-offs isn't the best option either but I wasn't advocating that, as I think you probably know.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Alex

[strawb 3660]

 

picking the right players to fit a formation will get the confidence going. it's basics innit? get the players playing in roles they like and the confidence will hopefully follow.

 

has has to realise the way he's going about things isn't working. if he insists on playing one up top, don't play cisse on his own with no other strikers near him. or de jong up front on his own, when he likes to play off a front man. mitrovic looks the only one really suited to playing as a lone striker in his current formation. so when he's inevitably suspended, i'd like to see a manager flexible enough to mix it up.

 

Agreed.

 

But you have seen it yourself, with the season we finished 5th and the other weird runs where we win 5/6 on the bounce then lose 10 on the bounce or whatever. That wasn't really because Pardew was making big or small changes to the system every week, because he wasn't. The most successful teams have a system that they usually stick to (Chelsea, Arsenal even Barcelona) I think McLaren is going to stick to this system as he sees it as a longer term issue than most supporters who by no fault of their own are more short term.

 

Any runs for us usually started with a lucky goal/win, which improves the confidence and mood in the team and goes from there. Its all ifs and buts, but if we scored that last minute winner at Man Utd then the whole view of the season would be different imo.

 

Very small margins at this level, whether that's a bit of good or bad luck or players who are confident.

[Happy Face 29]

Ancient chinese proverb say if you want roast chicken on Sunday, don't buy 4 chicks on Saturday.

[Kid Dynamite 5934]

I agree, if we could find the right players to supplement the team we should have signed them. Austin definitely. Saying that, we signed Colback last year and he's been gash this season so it's not a perfect formula.

 

My initial point still stands however, with a new manager, new coaching staff, our best players retained and £35mil spent on a new spine in Mbemba, Gini and Mitrovic, most people were reasonably happy. The proof is in the transfer thread over the summer.

 

Now everyone is saying the manager should be sacked, we've signed shit players, the coaching isn't working and it's all gone to shit.

 

Which is it? Things need to change, obviously, but writing players, managers and coaches off after 8 league games is ridiculous

[Alex 30440]

I agree, if we could find the right players to supplement the team we should have signed them. Austin definitely. Saying that, we signed Colback last year and he's been gash this season so it's not a perfect formula.

 

My initial point still stands however, with a new manager, new coaching staff, our best players retained and £35mil spent on a new spine in Mbemba, Gini and Mitrovic, most people were reasonably happy. The proof is in the transfer thread over the summer.

 

Now everyone is saying the manager should be sacked, we've signed shit players, the coaching isn't working and it's all gone to shit.

 

Which is it? Things need to change, obviously, but writing players, managers and coaches off after 8 league games is ridiculous

Colback was signed because he was on a free so it's moot. Comparing him with signing Austin is apples and oranges.

Yes, most people were reasonably happy but you're incorrect in saying that everyone everyone is saying the players are shit and the manager should be sacked. It's straw man stuff.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Alex

[Dr Gloom 19828]

It's easy sitting at home playing football manager and pointing out mistakes in hindsight but we are competing against 20 premier league teams for every player. Palace are more attractive than us simply because they are in London.

 

i don't think anyone's doing that. the way i see it is most of us were encouraged by the number of new players bought in vs the number sold as well as the impressive net spend. but you have to put that in the context of the season we just endured as well as ashley's miserly record in the transfer market.

 

the consensus was there were still problems in defence. i don't think it's re-writing history to observe that we're only a couple of injuries away from starting with the likes of dummet and williamson. plus mbemba is raw and unproven. that was obvious at the start of the season too.

 

the attacking buys all have the potential to be exciting but are also unknown quantities in this division, so while it's refreshing to see some investment, it was done, as always, with an eye on future returns.

 

buying players with no experience in the division is always a calculated punt. only buying such players is a massive gamble.

[NJS 3981]

They broke a golden rule for me - never go back for someone who turned us down. I know Robson did as well but he's the classic exception.

 

I agree with HF in general about the club but it's becoming clear the manager isn't the competent fresh start everyone thought.

[Dr Gloom 19828]

I agree, if we could find the right players to supplement the team we should have signed them. Austin definitely. Saying that, we signed Colback last year and he's been gash this season so it's not a perfect formula.

 

My initial point still stands however, with a new manager, new coaching staff, our best players retained and £35mil spent on a new spine in Mbemba, Gini and Mitrovic, most people were reasonably happy. The proof is in the transfer thread over the summer.

 

Now everyone is saying the manager should be sacked, we've signed shit players, the coaching isn't working and it's all gone to shit.

 

Which is it? Things need to change, obviously, but writing players, managers and coaches off after 8 league games is ridiculous

 

fwiw, i think we have to stick with mcclaren for another month or two at the very least, but if there's no improvement, i don't know. when do you act? i'd like to think he'll still be here at christmas but he needs to turn it around quickly. at the very least put out a side that looks to be something approaching cohesive. because honestly, we've looked as bad, if not worse, than we did under carver lately. at the moment we're not even competing at home against sheffield wednesday's second string, and that's a massive concern.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Dr Gloom

[Alex 30440]

J, who reckons McClaren should be sacked? Out of interest.

[Kid Dynamite 5934]

I spotted 3 in last nights match thread alone

[ewerk 26415]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/newcastle-united/11888647/Newcastle-United-owner-Mike-Ashley-to-back-manager-Steve-McClaren-despite-dreadful-start-to-the-season.html

[ewerk 26415]

I spotted 3 in last nights match thread alone

 

Name and shame.

[Alex 30440]

I spotted 3 in last nights match thread alone

Who was it then? How representative are their views? I hope CT was one of them.

[Happy Face 29]

They broke a golden rule for me - never go back for someone who turned us down. I know Robson did as well but he's the classic exception.

 

I agree with HF in general about the club but it's becoming clear the manager isn't the competent fresh start everyone thought.

 

"Everyone thought"? I read a lot of discontent about McClaren. He won 2 in the championship in the same period Carver won 2 in the Premier League. I saw very little enthusiasm for him beyond being an improvement on Carver. I expected more than this from him while not approaching Stevie's level of enthusiasm, but I agree no-one could have thought it would start out THIS bad.

 

The crux is this...

 

Bob Moncur

Joe Kinnear

Jeff Vetere

Derek Llambias

John Carver

Dennis Wise

Steve McClaren

Lee Charnley

Alan Pardew

Tony Jiminez

Joe Kinnear

 

Mike Ashley has no clue about appointing anyone respected in the game. He has no idea about football and will always go with cheaper over better.

 

The likes of Everton, West Ham and Aston Villa would be disgusted with appointing half of those people.

[Dr Gloom 19828]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/newcastle-united/11888647/Newcastle-United-owner-Mike-Ashley-to-back-manager-Steve-McClaren-despite-dreadful-start-to-the-season.html

 

it sounds like mcclaren agrees with us and was overuled by the other two when it came to going for experience in defence and austin up front.

 

this par made me laugh. we've got our job shifting a lot of those. we might struggle giving away the likes of gouffran

 

 

 

McClaren may have defended them publicly, but Newcastle are expected to listen to offers for Cheick Tiote, Papiss Cisse, Gabriel Obertan, Vurnon Anita and Moussa Sissoko in the New Year. They will also sell the likes of Mike Williamson, Sylvain Marveaux and Yoan Gouffran if anyone is willing to take them.