Howmanheyman

When the 'big 5' was around, Forest should definitely have been in it, Ipswich's time had been and gone by then. Although Forest were never going to win the league again they were always a good side getting to finals. I think the top and bottom was this, Granada (North-West) and Thames (London) ran ITV sport, Everton, (because they had a good side) were included, as were Liverpool who were the best Club in the country by a mile, and Man Utd who were just a good cup side. That was Granada's lot. Thames had Spurs and Arsenal. Both clubs came nowhere near being realistic challengers for the title until 1989 when Arsenal won it. I think this was the original meaning behind the 'big 5' title IIRC, i.e. clubs that could actually win a title.

Unless Leazes actually does something out of order then he shouldn't be banned, whether anyone thinks he goes on and on or not. The book review thing for example, not interested? Don't read it. This forum should be fun, a laugh and a place for people to discuss all aspects of NUFC. Maybe we all need to take a breather now and again and remember this, LM included, obviously. For the record I distrust MA immensley, I'm now in self imposed exile through him and Llambias, I'm still over the moon that we're doing well and watch 90% of our games on taliban telly with other supporters who don't go anymore. If he gets something right I'll give him credit, same as I did with the last lot, although I became disillusioned with them as well. I know one thing, most Mags I know have almost always slagged off anything or anyone who ran our club, from the Pirate, (just before my time) to Seymour, McKeag, Hall, Shepherd, and Fletcher through to the Spivs who've got their mitts on us now.

To be honest I'm making the point that the big whatever has to include Liverpool.

I actually thought it had more to do with the fact that SKY and Co had decided that these were England's CL representatives even the odd season they weren't!

Saying Liverpool and Arsenal had a chance of winning the title these last few years is also ridiculous but there was still a 'Big 4'

Reported and PM on it's way to Ant!

So in the beginning ITV once bought the exclusive rights to the top division and the media decided there was a 'big 5'. This was Liverpool, Everton, Man Utd, Spurs and Arsenal. (For the record, Spurs never ever looked like winning the title and hadn't done so for over twenty years. Arsenal only came good at the end of that particular decade as well. Fast forward a few years, SKY decided after the two years we were in it that there actually was a 'Top 4'. We all know the teams. I noticed that as soon as Spurs started to look good and qualify for a CL place the teams became a 'Top 5'. This lasted five minutes before Man City had to be put in it and all of a sudden there's a 'Top 6!' Well here's the thing. Seen a bit of SKY Sports lately and it appears now that LFC are currently in 7th the league table they show always goes down to the, (can you guess?).......... ........ Yep! 7th position. So....... Is there now a 'Top/Big 7'? I'm struggling to keep up now. If LFC fall to tenth will there be a 'Big 10'?

I actually quite like his idea of reviewing that book. Whether you agree with LM or not. LM is the pantomine villian. And the rest are namby-pamby's.

..........And so's my wife.

"M'lud! I object!.......did he say it to his face?"

Let's hope he's getting stronger as we speak, Stevie. All you can do is be there for him/your family, mate.

".........And after the defendant read about J69's pigeon shoulders and Michael J Fox style attire, what did he feel then, M'Lud?"

That's why I linked to the table of % stadiums are filled. The mackems have the worst for a top half club. We have the second worst. Similarly positioned clubs with comparable stadiums (dippers, Arsenal, Chelsea) aren't having the same trouble. Think it's more than the across the board drop off you mention, more the latter reasons. If current results and half price tickets aren't going to bring them fans back, hope we can push on more to entice them. To be fair, Everton, Liverpool, Chelsea, Villa and Spurs have more limited capacities than ourselves and the Mackems. I'd expect Liverpool to be virtually running to their capacity, Spurs should be the same as should Chelsea. Villa are Villa and Everton are on the bones of their arses. Put it this way, if all these clubs had as large capacity as us and the cheesey chip brigade, I don't think we'd be top of the percentage for empty seats.

I thought average attendances were down across the board for clubs in similar circumstances, I.e. not a club who's in the PL for the first time in years. I think supporters are starting to feel a bit of cynicism towards the 'greatest show on earth' and the SKY hype is being seen for what it is. If you want to localise it to us then there's obviously people who won't go back for whatever reason. I was thrown out of my seat one time too many, didn't trust the owner and didn't fancy sitting elsewhere. Everyone will have their reasons. Some unemployment, some cutting their cloth, whatever.

Completely agree. We went from getting beat by the likes of Oxford and Brighton to not just winning, but doing it with a swagger. It was such a dramatic change and also done in an era where as a supporter you could feel the enjoyment more, i.e. being on the terraces. Don't get me wrong though, this season I am mostly enjoying being that big, ugly looking black fly in Sky's/certain pundits/journalists ointment by being where we are not percieved to belong. Suck it up, Mother Fuckers!

There was a huge gap where a full away support would be. There's nothing wrong with a 48,000 crowd against Vile in my opinion. Christ almighty, I can think of a few clubs who'd be shouting that attendance from the roof tops if only they could get that many supporters through the turnstiles, our neighbours and yesterdays visitors most definitely included!!

We played football, billiards, pitch and toss and Croquet at my school. Well Tom started it!

We'd be a good few points worse off if jonas wasn't in our side, CT. (In my opinion). I thought we looked better when Orbatron came on as well to be fair, but to imply Jonas needs a rest? ...... Maybe he does. With our set up, Jonas is invaluable IMO. Listen, Im not a big Jonas fan as you know, but even I appreciate the defensive performances he was putting on earlier in the season. However now we have great strikers in the box and we need great delivery. He's not providing it. I think it was Alex who said a few weeks ago that he looks like a player who has run himself ragged. He might be right. Im not fussed whether its Shane, Jonas Ben-Arfa or some other..... but we need someone who can get the ball and either run down the wing and deliver or deliver as soon as he receives it. Im sure everyone knows only too well the fannying on that is taking place at the minute. They certainly all do where I sit because they are constantly groaning. At one point today, Ba received the ball and was looking to play it down the left. As usual there was no one their. Even when Santon brings it forward, Jonas seems to run in behind Santon to the edge of the pitch, receive the ball and just wait. Im not sure how we achieve it, but I want someone on the left getting into the positions Obertan gets into but obviously with better delivery. Im sure we all want that. The thing is, we're not up where we are just on skill. We'd have been fucked early on if he wasn't in the side. Look at the one game he missed v Chelsea. They absolutely crucified us down the left. The last few games where Pardew tried 4-3-3, Jonas was wasted. I'd rather the kid stayed on the left, back his LB up and also tie their RB up as well. It gives other players space and room. We're definitely a better side when he's in it. (and on the wing).

and I got "oh dear"ed by 2J for suggesting there were Ben Arfa fanboys... No Ben Arfa fanboy, just don't rate Obertan in the slightest way possible. Worst player i've ever seen in black and white (and I had a Grimsby Town season ticket when I lived there. I don't think he's the worst player I've seen in the last few years never mind ever! You've seen nothing if you think he's the worst!

We'd be a good few points worse off if jonas wasn't in our side, CT. (In my opinion). I thought we looked better when Orbatron came on as well to be fair, but to imply Jonas needs a rest? ...... Maybe he does. With our set up, Jonas is invaluable IMO.

Source? http://www.villatalk...r=asc&start=555 Not believe me, like?

"We are Aston Villa for gods sake anything other than 3 points at fucking Newcastle should be considered a failure."

I'd laugh at Leeds, Liverpool, Spurs, Man U etc as they've either got previous with us or some would just love it if a SKY luvvy was relegated. Obviously we laughed when SAFC were relegated and vice versa. But Villa? Prior to them sending us down I'd think we'd have mainly shrugged our shoulders to be honest, and if we saw one of their 'great away support' in a bar before kick off I don't think we'd be unsympathetic. If level 7 was around they might've got a bit of stick from some of the kids but I'd be amazed if anyone actually went to the trouble of making banners, for fuck sake! I have obviously met the odd decent Villa fan but as a collective they can fuck right off after their petty small time fans got their chance to bask in someones else relegation. (Someone who they clearly can't stand as we shine brighter than themselves in good times and bad and their animosity is 100% jealousy.) If we were lower profile a bit like, ooh, I don't know, lets say err, Villa, then I'm sure they couldn't have gave a fuck. Then again with this lot who knows? When you support this club you don't forget stuff like this. You suck it up if you like, I'll give them dogs abuse, thanks. I think the Monkeys Fist asked if we'd done the same? Not sure if we actually put them down but I remember a doomed Oxford gettting beat 3-0 and Saunders getting one back which made the 100 or so Oxford fans do the conga in an empty corner of the Leazes. Most Mags laughed and admired their attitude, can't remember any mocking. We never laughed at Plymouth did we?

Had a little look on one of their sites and our little Mackem friend, Rice, was trying and failing to wind them up about their support, but he did make a few of them mention their 'great away support'. I can only imagine this great away support of theirs has an exclusion limit imposed on them in the North East similar to the one Argentina had in 1982 round the Falklands as I've very rarely seen them travel up here in numbers in the thirty years I've been watching us. Can never remember thinking, not even once, 'Aye, that Villa lot were canny today, mind'. Also one of them 'remembered' us averaging 15,000 in the eighties alongside the Mackems being completely fucking oblivious to our actual average attendences. Was it JawD who was at Villa Park to see us beat them in a 1st division game watched by 12,000 only a few years after winning the European Cup? Never really cared about these either way until I spent some time in their company before a game at Villa Park where I knew we'd beat them as we had a far better team yet the Villa lot genuinely thought they were the bigger, better club/team. This was the year after we'd been promoted and Cole and Malcolm Allen scored. As for the relegation match, a piss take was one thing, pre-meditated 'witty' banners? (Anything with ant & dec in it when trying to take the piss out of Geordies.......instant fail, to be honest), pure, 100% jealousy on their part that nobody will ever care about their club the same way they will about ours, whether good or bad. Like I said, they should play in beige and run out to Val Doonican or Daniel O'Donnell.

All the best, lads!