Rayvin

Ashley can't pull out though so who gives a shit what he thinks. There's probably a time trigger for completion in the agreement but he won't be able to just flounce off as normal.

I cannot understand this underlying assumption from the Tory voting Brexit brigade that their years and years of total apathy about science, economics, trade, medicine, whatever, has somehow armed them to go toe to toe with people who work on this stuff every day of their fucking lives, for decades. As if common fucking sense, not that they have any, is somehow of comparable weight to years of professional expertise and study. It's absolutely stunning that this is where we've come to. It's akin to communist purges of the intellectuals.

But your original example about car deaths being as bad is now redundant because your numbers were wrong. So we can now see that there is a far, far higher chance of dying from COVID than there is of being killed in a car accident. It's no longer a relevant comparison, you'd have to find something else with a similar death rate - and while I haven't looked into it for a while, I recall this is still roughly 10 times more lethal than the flu, for which we have a vaccine. So it's not like this is a small deal.

Here you go CT: https://percentagecalculator.net/

I'm curious as to whether or not CT is going to come back with an altered position based on this. EDIT - I guess not.

His repeated emphasis on data is straight from Cummings. Not that it's the wrong way to proceed. I'm not sure if I think there was much wrong with what he said - if the number is under 1 and they're actually using data to support what they're doing, then fine.

Yes but that's Labour's fault.

Absolutely it is. That was such a convincing argument that we don't need to understand who these 'centrists' he's referring to are, since the ones noted in the data sure as shit weren't voting for Brexit enabling government of incompetents. We also don't need to understand how Corbyn somehow forced the Tories to throw out all their moderate MPs while kowtowing to the absolute lunatics, that's just a given. Hopelessly disingenuous. It's beyond even arguing with people who think like this anymore, rational thought has entirely deserted the ideologically driven, evidence shy, persistent right wing voters. It's just tribal bullshit.

Yeah my goodwill for this country and government is long fucking spent tbh. You don't fuck over half the country with transparent lies and political game playing and then get to turn around and expect solidarity with the regime responsible. Appreciate that others may be more forgiving than me, but I firmly believe forgiveness requires acceptance of fault - and that has been the farthest thing from forthcoming.

I think I would put it this way anyway, in answer to that point about nationalisation - either the Tories have been lying for a decade about the money available and how "it would be nice to make things better but we can't afford it" and CT has been very aware of this, or he's going to have to accept that we have no alternative but to throw the elderly to the wolves because there's just no money to do anything about it. Same as the homeless before them, young people from disadvantaged backgrounds before them, domestic violence victims, mental health sufferers, the disabled, and anyone who happened to have a bad run of luck. They've been dying for a fucking decade, so why is now the time when we have money to be able to make a stand?

How have we come to CT now advocating for mass nationalisation? Why is it that socialism and "radical left wing" views are now the answer? It's as if there's a magic money tree after all.

What benefit would a national unity government give us? Other than allowing the Tories to share the blame?

You can see a massive switch to Labour pre-Brexit huh? If polling remains broadly the same, will you come back and admit that the people voting for madmen on the right aren't looking for electability, they're looking for confirmation of their own biased views, and are impenetrable to reality and logical argument? Those voting for the right are emotionally invested in it. Labour could have Thatcher in charge at the moment and they still wouldn't win. It's tribalism over everything now.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/no-complaint-or-refund-demand-over-400000-unusable-nhs-gowns No complaint or refund request received by the supplier. So yes, government spec fuck up.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/revealed-the-secret-report-that-gave-ministers-warning-of-care-home-coronavirus-crisis Exercise Cygnus returns once again, this time to point out that there were 26 recommendations made about the care home sector specifically with respect of a pandemic, none of which were apparently implemented. So that's PPE, ventilators, hospital beds, public willingness/information campaign about lockdown, and now care homes - all considered in 2016, all issues in which the national state of readiness was deemed to be severely wanting, and all simply brushed under the carpet by the Tories because it was politically inconvenient at the time.

It's just my opinion but this is why I was so adamant that Labour is fucked no matter who is in charge. It was always more than Corbyn, it's an honest to god culture war that is infecting all parts of our society. We are literally taking up the same sides of the battlefield over and over again on completely different issues because everyone has become politically involved - and in part that's because a certain section of society that was previously 'benignly uninformed' has been reached by the right through social media and various dishonest actors and transformed into 'dangerously misinformed'. I feel like our side always thought that if we could inform them, they'd see our point of view since it actually represents the interests of the vast majority of people. Somehow we didn't see shameless misinformation and lying actually working. The same people who voted for Brexit are the same people who think Trump is doing a good job and talking sense, who are the same people who think the lockdown is an attack on civil liberties, who are the same people who think that they have to support the Tories on the mistakes they're making because this is a political issue and their side is under fire. Starmer isn't going to penetrate that, Obama wouldn't be able to, Blair wouldn't be able to, it's fucked. The only way the situation improves is if some kind of doomsday event really pushes these people into the light, or if the left/centre stop bickering about everything and engage in the snidy, dishonest and slimy bullshit of the right. Because playing the game fairly is going to get us squarely nowhere. And if we ever do get back into power, we need to bring in laws that criminally prosecute well-poisoning serial liars in political positions. If we ever get that chance, we need to destroy the right's ability to behave like this ever again. It's too dangerous and it is only happening because no one ever thought they'd sink so low, and therefore the necessary safeguards weren't established.

Is it the manufacturers fault or the government's though? They're pursuing a refund which suggests the former.

Ah ok sorry, I saw a post from the Fish a few pages back and assumed it marked the end of week 2. Ok well, if we're at the end of week 4 then clearly everyone can worry freely.

We're around the end of week 3 judging by the posts in here. So I don't think anyone should be worrying yet.

Part of the problem is that the press, on the basis of knowing absolutely nothing, have just come out with random dates and deadlines which are all missed, thus making people uncertain. It takes 2-4 weeks. Has 4 weeks gone by yet?

It's the second tweet for me, that sums up what is wrong with British people now. Wilful ignorance due to fear of having to acknowledge their own poor judgement. It's never going to go away though, it's the new landscape. It's the blind leading the people who gouged out their own eyes.

https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/what-if-short-wanted-to-return.1515879/ "Ellis Short, please come back, all is forgiven!!"

That sounds fucking mental. Did they justify the top 6 thing, is it maybe that they mean current top 6 for some inexplicable reason?

Am I right in thinking that Toonraider is the only current revealed Mackem on here? We do tend to get a bit jumpy with new members tbf, always have

My bad, I changed it halfway through writing it and apparently broke it completely Fixed now.