Rayvin

It's a tough one for me because I am going to be personally impacted by this and I feel pretty helpless frankly. It's making me quite anxious. Sorry if it's bothering anyone.

Looking at the guardian's livefeed it appears to be a resounding Yes to that question. So Parliament has actually contrived to get an even worse, more hard-core version of May's deal which it initially voted down for being too extreme. I am absolutely done with Labour after this, but frankly they're all a bunch of pathetic, spineless, clueless fuckheads. Except the Tories who are just distilled evil in human form.

Been out of the loop with this, are we fucked then?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/18/john-mcdonnell-expects-labour-mps-to-hold-firm-on-brexit-deal McDonnell seems to think Labour can hold together.

Looking at Hoey's twitter actually, I'm not convinced she'll vote for this. Seems very DUP friendly.

Ah, that'd be why. Great. So that's him and Hoey with one final blow before they bow out. Mann -at least- represents a constituency that voted 68% leave. Hoey still the far worse culprit in this. What was Vauxhall, something like 70% Remain?

You're right, they just want to continue as career politicians. It's disgraceful. Even some Tories have been brave enough to risk that in favour of the national interest. How they can't see what's coming if this deal goes through though is just unbelievable. They won't survive it. Labour will be smashed at a GE and they will be de-selected one way or another. Momentum will make sure of it. And on this occasion, I sincerely hope they do.

Corbyn: "I believe in the power of persuasion rather than the power of threat. I will ask all labour MPs to vote along with the party in opposing any deal which damages rights and protections in our society or drives us into the arms of Donald Trump." So he's going to try and persuade them to vote against the deal by appeals to their left wing nature. It all hangs on the extent to which he's able to do this I guess.

What is even Mann's agenda in this, seriously? What the fuck is he trying to prove?

I don't think Corbyn wants to hand Johnson this victory, but at the same time it's clear that Brexit isn't the most important issue in the room for him. If it goes through, Labour will get spanked at a GE though, I don't understand why he can't see that.

You're free not to care as long as you vote the right way if somehow it comes back to a vote. I mean indeed, there's nothing any of us can do about it presently anyway.

And so ofc, John Mann comes out and says he's voting for it and more than 9 others will also. If that's true, we're fucked. I think we could get away with 7.

I think this is where a lot of people are coming from now - I saw the guardian reference a poll that said 54% of people now back a deal over any other alternative. I doubt they know what's in the deal, what it means for them, or anything other than the fact that it "ends Brexit" - but that's where a lot of people are. I think on balance that this would chance over the course of a constructive referendum campaign, but it's still a concern.

Well they fucking should be, but why leave it to the exec committee? On the deal itself, the entire ERG will vote for it - looking at what is being said now I'm basically certain of that. The Tory rebels will most likely all go for it with perhaps 3 exceptions. So he only needs about 10 Labour rebels. It'll be a dark day in they vote it through.

Why is Labour not threatening to remove the whip from any Labour MPs who vote for this?

Tbh, you're right. But idk, I really thought we might avoid Brexit in the end if we held our nerve. Maybe that's still true but the revelation that Johnson might be some kind of political mastermind is a jarring one.

This is my fear too. His gambit to win over the Labour rebels is threaten them with No Deal, aided by Juncker's comments apparently - I can't see them voting for a referendum. We need some kind of miracle.

And you think Johnson won't have seen that coming? A people's vote is the biggest threat to his entire plan, I doubt he's simply counting on mere hope that it won't go through. He'll be up to something to prevent it somehow.

Who on the Remain side is inspiring any faith atm? The only thing I find a bit reassuring is that they're being quiet so far - hopefully that's because they're all squirreled away somewhere scheming about how to grasp victory from the jaws of defeat. But we all know they're probably sat with their respective parties and looking at how they can best capitalise on what happens in an election. Country be damned.

Even if this is true, the fact he's come out and said it is basically backing Johnson.

I still haven't made my mind up about whether I will just stop bothering to vote after this, or I will vote only for parties that that would take us back into the EU. Might go Green but honestly what's the point. You just can't win. I haven't been on the winning side of any election/public vote since I was old enough to be involved. In the meantime we can become a hard right, low tax, Singapore style mini-US on the EU's doorstep. Labour will be destroyed by this, and honestly I think political disenfranchisement amongst the young will surge. The Tories will survive. It turns out that in the game of politics the Tories are just unbeatable. There is no low they will not sink to, and for some reason, people just keep voting for things that help them. And we will now have another 10 years of them at least IMO.

Finding it hard not to agree with you on this... I guess they ran out of patience but the win was there for the taking. Also, it's not just them - if the Remain MPs could have gotten their stupid heads out of their arses on this issue and just agreed a government to kick Boris out of power, we wouldn't be here. We have been let down by fucking everyone on this.

Yeah, this was always going to be the angle. It's actually fascinating political theatre. If only it was happening in the US instead.

I swear just the other day they were making positive noises about all of this. Even this morning it sounded like they could be brought around.

I hope to god you're right, I couldn't stomach this being delivered off the back of Labour MPs. Not that I can stomach it anyway. On the DUP - does "will not support" = "will vote against"?