Rayvin

That being the case, Israel is acting atrociously. Did they specify reasons for rejecting it? I suppose it's the border opening one.

Good phrasing

Agreed...doesn't seem like we're gonna get that CB though...

That's what I don't get. This isn't going to increase his value, it's going to end up in him leaving for free or going for pennies. I suppose we'll see when the season kicks off what happens. If he's brought back into the first team then we'll know that they just wanted to move him on. If he isn't, it must have been something else. Seems a crying shame though given how good our team could be, that we're not prepared to make this work. That said, I wonder if the key issue is the problems in the dressing room. It might make bringing him back into the fold at this point a challenge.

In the interests of advancing this discussion: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_Exodus First line states that mainstream archaeology and history claim it never happened and is entirely fictional. Steve, I would just concede the point mate. I know what you're driving at but I think your argument is being lost on this particular point.

Is that just on principle or are we thinking of the Romans here?

They can't just be bad people though, they must be seeing something we're not...

From their own institute of democracy apparently: http://en.idi.org.il/ Not saying it's reliable but it was done by their leading universities...

I'm not saying I don't sympathise, or that I don't feel it's shameful. But at the end of the day, the most humane decision is the one that results in the smallest loss of life. Nationalism, patriotism, history - these things are not worth dying for, they are illusions. I guess I would argue that the people of Gaza are worth more than the state of Palestine. Not that I think for one second that Israel should be acting as it is. If you had to choose between the two here though, you're looking at losing both with a fight, or just one but saving lives. As you say, it's not like they can resist Israel without external intervention.

...I don't get why that GIF is appropriate, but she is hot. That's my contribution to this thread.

Isn't Birdseye stuff something you just heat up in the oven..?

Agree. We'd be like a Chelsea-lite, but without the good defense. To be honest, it's a crying shame they won't try to make this work with Ben Arfa. It's like we resist the urge to actually move forward, we have to absolutely stand still.

Is this now on the cards again, is it? He probably is worth £15m to be fair to him.

What has disturbed me in particular, is that 95% of Israelis back the government's action. This means that Netanyu isn't the problem, he's actually doing exactly what he was elected for. The problem is the way Israel views Palestine, and if you explored that, I'm certain you would see that the average Israeli would tell you this was necessary because Hamas wants to eradicate them. If Hamas stops with that, surely the situation can only improve? Hamas are at the very least providing Israel with every excuse it needs to carry out its aggression - this makes them irresponsible with the lives of their people. How many lives is that history worth, I wonder.

I'm aware of the history, but how does that help us now? How are we supposed to interpret history in order to save people's lives here? The history is irrelevant in terms of finding a solution. As I said earlier, either the solution is that both sides back down and restore normalised diplomatic relations, along with working towards a better future...or Israel just blows the almighty fuck out of anything and everything on the wrong side of the wall until there's nothing left to have diplomatic relations with. Much as it doesn't right the wrongs of the past, Hamas has a responsibility to its people now, not 60 or 70 years ago. They need to surrender for their own people's sake. Saying that doesn't make me pro-Israel, it makes me pro human life.

Being honest, we do seem to do this with players when we want to move them on. God knows why though, what harm does it do if we have players challenging to get into the first team and strength in depth. We're going to get fuck all for him anyway is this keeps up. What did happen to Marveaux anyway?

Parky, just to sate my curiosity - say Hamas got those tunnels to work. What would they do with them?

Ah, this is where that other thread came from...

This is an awesome thread, mind. Are we meant to reveal or is it all hypothetical? I heard (at the age of 11) that if was twice your foot size divided and then divided by three (in inches). With that said, I always thought the really arrogant people were those who were overcompensating. If you're confident that's one thing, but making a point of people knowing you're confident is a mask for insecurity.

Did they not turn down about £30m for both him and Fellaini? Given what they managed to sell the latter for, that would not have been a good deal for Baines.

I was surprised by the strength of the UN language actually. "The world stands ashamed and disgusted". I'm not sure I've heard such strong rhetoric from them. Obviously justifiable rhetoric considering what Israel is doing... This does rather show how powerless the international community is though.

This has to be true. There are tiny clubs throwing serious money around these days ffs. Fulham spent £11m on a single player and they just got relegated. We can definitely afford to put more money out there, but I suppose it's only fair to judge at the end of the window. Certainly makes sense for the club to play their cards close to their chest.

Where in hell did Everton get £28m from...is that the Fellaini cash? Looking at it that way, they've swapped Fellaini for Lukaku. Good business, IMO. I do rather feel that this is probably their entire summer budget mind, but at least it shows they're prepared to push on from last year.