Renton

Oh ffs. I can see your point of view on most things, but if you are adopting the line it was the labour party internally that did it in for Corbyn, I'm giving up. Corbyn fought against the leadership of the labour party all his career. Oh fuck it, not getting into this.

King of the North!

They both got at least one GE though didn't they? Corbyn lost two, with one being the worst defeat in living memory. I don't see it being different for Starmer.

Cost of living is much more significant actually imo, and increasingly will be. But Rayvin I'm still confused what you want here, sounds you want a populist to oppose Johnson to shake things up. I am fucking sick of populaist politicians, they are fucking up the world everywhere, whatever creed they claim to follow.

Fair enough. I think maybe it goes with legal and political training he has had, he is sombre and not humorous in interviews, I admit. Too guarded perhaps. . Look at Bridget as well. Professional, but displaying little personality (but she also has an interesting back story). Then the silver spooned Johnson, handed everything to him on a plate, only previous job being a lying journalist, hardly ever any consequences for his lies, even when he lies to parliament.

Anyway, the break up of the Union (well done "Boris") will be the catalyst for something, not sure whether it will be good or bad like. Probably the latter.

Fair enough, you want revolution rather than evolution. Ideally I do too, but how? We all agree for instance that we need constitutional reform and PR going forward, but with 80% of the unions opposing this (fuck knows why) and the tory press and Glooms fair and unbiased MSM on the case, can you see it happening from where we are now? Step one has to be to achieve power, I'll worrry about the next 10 years after that has been achieved.

How is he a personality vaccum? His biography is actually pretty interesting imo. He doesn't have stupid hair, he doesn't bumble and talk absolute shite, he doesn't try to appeal to appeal to every lowest denominator, he doesn't constantly lie and people say "that's Keir being Keir", he isn't an upper class arse clart who people want to doff their caps and pull their forelocks to, and he doesn't have a working relationship with the tory press (probably the most important point). I don't want a populist PM, I only want a competent one with integrity. He fits the bill for me.

What do you want him to do? Release a manifesto possibly 2 years early, and let the tories hijack it? I know you want him to commit to rejoining the EU or the CU/SM, and I'm sure that he would prsonally love to. But he will have a team of advisors who know far more than me or you telling him he can't do this and win power. Winning power is ALL that matters.

I think you're being way too hard on Starmer and judging him too early.way before we hit a GE which imo he's keeping his powder dry for. Also think its bizarre you don't give him credit for a huge reversal in the polls and the council election results, as if that would happen anyway. If you don't already, I'd recommend you listen to the 'Oh God, what now?' Podcast with Ian Dunt and many others. They had Kinnock on this week (another leader I feel was unjustly regarded) who gives some good insight into Starmer. Changing things round after the absolute disaster Corbyn left (unarguably the worst position since the 1930s) was always going to be hard in one term, yet Starmer is on course to doing it anyway, in 2 years. Not good enough, apparently.

I like Nandy, I really do, but I just can't see her as a leader. I think she'd do well in red wall seats but very poorly in blue wall. Once again, you do more damage to the tories by hitting them there. I think Rayner is similar. Cooper is the only female who has enough gravitas to pull it off, but obviously won't appeal to the usual suspects. Starmer is by far the best option imo, labour losing him would do more damage to them than the tories losing Johnson. I very much hope it doesn't come to this.

Hope's is sooner and has more info. But Ryder's has speech marks around "likely" and has a location stamp from Manchester. Hmm, narrow win for Hope for me.

When I was first going to quote your post, less than 5 minutes to go, you were bang on with 70% possession and 3-0. Took a screenshot. They scored. Took another screenshot. Before I could upload it, they'd scored again. And gained 1% more possession. So had to change my post and get the Trump meme out. We really are exceptionally shit against the top teams. Last home game of the season will still be canny, but hope we can get something against Arsenal to stop it being a damp squid [\CT]. Edit and tl\dr just seen earlier post. Yes, you were almost right so you were.

5-0 and 71% possession. FFS.

Or the labour membership was hijacked by £3 a go Corbyn idealists who haven't got a clue about real politics.

I hope it doesn't come to it, and it would be ridiculous if it did, but for me Burnham has been the politician to come out of the pandemic with the most credit. If only we had got him rather than Corbyn the political landscape would have been so different now. I guess he would have to be parachuted in to a safe seat either through natural attrition or through a deliberate resignation. Not even sure he would do it tbh. Only other one I can see as plausible is Cooper, because surely Rayner would be fucked too. BTW, I personally didn't give a shit about the birthday cake if that's all Johnson did, but we know it wasn't. It was breaking your own rules and more importantly lying to parliament. Starmer did neither of them.

Yep, they're even more desperate to get promoted now to avoid being beaten by Joey Barton as usual. https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/bristol-bloody-rovers.1578198/

That would be great but I want instant gratification. Wednesday beat them 3 nil in the league earlier this year so that would do me. I assume away goals don't count double nowadays as well? Another trip to Wembley, taking Trafalgar square, diving into 18 inch fountains, generaly showing themselves to be mutants, and then losing to the mighty Wycombe wanderers on penalties would also do.

It's relative. He is a paragon of virtue compared with Johnson. Low bar, I know. Starmer is playing the long game to get in power because otherwise what is the point? He's come from a humble background with tragedy in his life to become head of the CPS, suggesting massive competence to me. Again compare and contrast with Johnson. Not an easy job sorting out the shit Corbyn left behind though, leading labour to its absolute nadir.

I think Labour do need a positive vision. Last time they put one out early though, the tories stole their ideas. You'll need to wait for a manifesto nearer the GE.

In some areas, maybe. I think personally these will be limited to areas like Hartlepool and Grimsby though, absolute shit holes inhabited by morons. But most Brexit votes came from rural areas and the SE. These areas are turning away from the tories. Also, it's canny difficult to blame things on the EU 8 years after you've voted to leave and 4 years since you actually did. You can persuade the gammon UKIP crowd but not the average Joe who is struggling. A reminder, most working people voted Remain.

Really not sure Brexit is that much of any issue any more. It's increasingly becoming a hard sell. A lot of very Brexit areas went Lib Dem yesterday, as they did in that by election a few months ago too.

I find it absolutely staggering people value "charisma" over competence, integrity, and honesty, and even more staggering that anybody believes "Boris" is charismatic. That's by the by anyhow. If the BoE predictions are anywhere near accurate, and I think they are, you party is fucked no matter who is is charge, cos its not getting better in the next 2 years and the hard times haven't even begun yet. Even based on today's results your party is toast (see below). They've taken their eyes of the blue wall while courting the red wall. They've also shafted farmers in the Shires (who weren't up for election yesterday). The tories have no natural allies left (they betrayed the Lib Dems and then the DUP) so they won't be leading a coalition. I'd be amazed if Johnson isn't involved in several more scandals too. "Boris just being Boris".

But with all this obsession with the red wall, is anybody taking notice of the blue wall?

No, I don't think Labour can win now without Scotland (although notably they would have under Blair). And electoral reform looks like a distant dream. Sadly, I think we're fairly fucked relying on confidence and supply coalitions at best. Shit state of affairs.