Toonpack

He made over £600K from his few months at Rangers via his EBT (as per the BBC)

Ok so cheating and fraud is fine, so long as you "enjoy it at the time" and the consequences are of no importance. The Rangers fans who've been going through the mincer since February-ish, are sure to agree !!!!!!! Especially if much of what they "enjoyed" is taken away. Unbelievable.

That's what the rule said, but it's one of those things that's probably "from this day forward" type rules, anyone through the gate before that is OK. Dunno when it was stipulated. You right on the rest like, football chairman - especially if the huns would start (as they would have to) low down, will be rubbing their hands.

Struggle to see why that's relevant, but maybe soon, two property developers (both millionaire Celtic ST holders) have made an £11 Mill offer to the "new" owner to buy the "assetts". Do you think what Rangers have done is acceptable and the situation they are in is "perfectly fine"??

There has been some some argument about that, but it is the "company" which is being liquidated. So the debts etc can't be pursued through the new company (unless of course HMRC's liquidators decide Newco is phoenix company - doubtfull that'll happen, although playing in blue at Ibrox and having the word Rangers in the name, you could make a case !!). However, Newco want to transfer the SPL share (that's what the vote is) from Oldco, along with the SFA membership (which constitutes the "club") the footballing penalties are attached to the football membership entity (club) and NOT the corporate entity, that seems to be the prevailing view. Also the SPL chairman has stated that if The Rangers want to transfer the share they must accept any penalties attached to said share.

This is obviously all over message boards up North, someone posted the relevant FA regulation about teams playing in England joining the EFL/FA. It states along the lines that the team must play all its home games in England or have its HQ in England (that second bit could be a loophole). Doubt it’ll happen though. Newco – has no money, can’t get a bank account, can’t call itself Rangers (as per companies house until the Liquidator releases the trademark) some clever bugger has registered all the likely “other” permutations of Rangers alreadyand has no players. On 26th of this month the players salaries are due, they still belong to Oldco, which also has no money (hence it is going into liquidation). Players could TUPE across to Newco, but then Newco as said, has no money, can’t issue ST requests etc etc. not to mention the fact that they could only meet their wage bill by not paying tax, NI or Vat in the first place. Players could choose just to walk. They don’t know where they’ll be playing (even if staying up North), they still face: SFA tribunal for non-payment of tax which found them guilty but had the “halfway house” penalty they imposed overturned in civil court (UEFA and FIFA thrilled!!!). Possible sanctions – banned from cup (already stated by tribunal as too slight a punishment) or expulsion/suspension. SPL Vote – 8 clubs needed to say yes, even if they get a yes could be suspended by the tribunal. If no they have to apply to SFL to enter the third. EBT tribunal into illegal payments (over entire history of SPL and before – although SPL can only investigate SPL transgressions obviously) Prima Facia case to answer was the SPL phrase. This covers ineligible players over years in all competitions, expect UEFA etc to be VERY interested in that one (especially given the going to court “own goal”). Sanctions unlimited, likely at least to be stripped of all honours involving ineligibles. Potentially opens the way for numerous damages claims from teams thwarted by “illegal” means. Liquidators not yet fully in control, strong expectation they’ll freeze the asset sale from Oldco to Newco, on the premise How could the administrators formally value the clubs assets (not including playing staff) at over £100 Million and then sell them (in the best possible deal for the creditors, supposedly) for £5.5 Million. Oh and previous owner (Craig Whyte) according to Thomson, still owns 85% of Oldco as the CVA was rejected, his father evidently holds a floating charge over Ibrox, Training Centre and car park, which are the main assets. All of that has to be sorted in about 6 weeks for Rangers to play anywhere.

Update From "up north" "From the person that brought us the news that Rangers were tatties … SPL dotting I’s and Crossing T’s to ensure it is watertight Mark Daly (BBC reporter who did the Panorama expose) has been interviewed by SPL to corroborate the evidence as more high profile figures to be implicated in a massive fraud scandal, Offshore bank accounts in different names (smith, sally) Traynor involved Sportsound team being interview at BBC to see if there were involved (dodds wont work for BBC again) As CVA didnt go through whyte still owns 85% of oldco BDO has consulted court of session on how to proceed with criminal charges. Sir Walter walked away due to being now implicated in the tax fraud. Dundee Utd, season ticket sales currently 1,700 compared to 4,300 end of June last year. They're waiting for the vote. Based on what seems to be comming out up there, just hope we don't get any backwash from messrs Souness,McKay and Boumsong. The Rangers won't likely play any football next season, thereafter who knows. They have been charged by the SPL with a prima facia case to answer on the double contracts. As per Alex Thomson (twitter): https://twitter.com/#!/alextomo Lawyer connected to fmr Rangers manager tells #c4news "there's a massive fraud in Rangers waiting to come out" Souness's lawyer will ask him soonest why he got EBT 30k 10y after leaving fmr RFC? If Souness answers/refuses, you'll know either way.

Engalnd will win the whole thing, it's written in the stars, just like Chelsea did "against the odds" (and Greece and Denmark have done before). Park the bus and hit em on the break.

If you're out in the sticks and watch the night sky with no ambient light, apart from being an absolutely amazing sight, you can see the fuckers with the naked eye moving in their orbits.

I suppose Duff and Phelps argument will be that there was no transfer window in which to be able to realise a return and the fact the players took a 75% cut in wages offset any "gains" from letting any go. I did read somewhere that they had a ridiculous number of professionals on the books. Bastards hoover up all and any young talent/prospects who probably would develop better with games at lower clubs, to the players and other clubs benefits. No wonder the national team is gash.

Agree, I reckon there's still loads more to come out, once the Liquidators get involved an all. Crazy isn't it, they still owe Rapid Vienna money for Jelavic, which Rapid will never see, yet they get to keep (or rather it goes into the oldco pot) the fee they are owed from Everton.

I can't either, but there will be an effect, and I reckon at the very least, Rangers games (at home) will be VERY poorly attended by other clubs fans and there'll be bugger all go to Ibrox. It's an appalling story really and I really don't think they'll get in without massive collusion, there just isn't the time.

A stadium name change and this are nowhere close. Yes fans are fickle, BUT they are REALLY fucking "up in arms" over this, it really has got to "what's the point" because of the cheating and apparent complicity of much of the "powers that be". They all love their clubs (as fans do) but this is about real cheating, it's not far short of match fixing for years and years, and a potential whitewash of the same to preserve an overpowering duopoly.

(Equivalent of 300 ST's) 300 people is fuck all really, it only needs to be 300/game on average and their larger share of the 40% of the TV money Rangers get would also help (that assumes Celtic keep their 40% which is highly doubtfull as well). That's not many if you count away fans and "other" clubs are felt to be "competitive". How good did we feel "going for Europe" there's another place opened up in Scotland without Rangers, that leads to more fans and Euro money for the teams that make it. That said, the Euro things a bit of a misnomer as Rangers even IF in the SPL are now banned from Europe for 3 years (for going into Liquidation) so that "extra" Euro space is still there irrespective. One other stupid thing is that Oldco as the SPL share holder still get to vote in the SPL chairman vote on Newco (if and when Newco applies).

I'm not so sure this time Fish. http://www.splsurvey.co.uk/SPL_SURVEY_Newco-FFP-Results.pdf

That's a falacy Fish, the fucked without the OF bit anyway. The OF get 80% of the TV money. It's a crap league now, it'll likely remian that for a while, but it will be more competitive, which is all the "other" fans want. The "fucked without the OF" card is being played hugely by oldco/newco/Glasgow Press, "they need to be in for the good of the scottish game". Aye they always were thinking about the good of the scottish game when they were tarting around with England and the Atlantic League thingy. There was a great blog I read did an analysis some time back, worked out something like the equivalent of 300 more ST's per club would cover the "loss" of Rangers visits, not including the costs of policing and stewarding which are bigger for the OF than anyone and when one of the OF has been weak historically attendances elsewhere have always gone up.

Yeah can be read many ways. They are totally skint and that £800K would have been a big difference maker for them as the money up there is so pitifull even before the OF take their share. Aye the precedent is an interesting one, if Rangers "get away with it" why don't the rest (with debts) just do the same. Hearts can't, as whilst their debt is to a bank, it's Romanov's bank !!!! The inequity is staggering, Hearts were threatened with a winding up order by the SFA for paying their players late (they did and have paid all taxes), several clubs (Livingston, Spartans, Dunfermiline etc etc) have been severely punished for nowt like what Rangers have been doing with the knowledge of the SPL/SFA yet got nothing in terms of censure until HMRC stepped in and it all became public. It's not so much the "tax evasion" that's got the fans pissed off it's the fact that it was used to "cheat" and inflate an already advantaged position and now the fact that somehow HMRC have let over £100 Mill in assetts be sold to the "new" owner/club for £5.5 Million. It absolutely stinks.

Have you got a link to that please ?? I haven't seen or remember mention of it. Dundee Utd bloke did (since "modified") and Kilmarnock guys have but don't recall a Hearts statement. All I can find is(from 13th June): http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18422397 Hearts: Director Sergejus Fedotovas has gone on the record to say he believes that learning lessons from the Rangers crisis is more important than punishing the club. "Justice is very important, but lessons learned are more valuable," he said. "The situation has highlighted issues that are much wider and Scottish football should not put all focus on the punishment, but address the roots of the problem." Which isn't particularly sympathetic IMO, could be wrong like and there could be another one somewhere. Agree time is FAST running out.

Highly doubtfull, Romanov's "mafia rant" (for which he was widely derided) was aimed at the OF and their influence in the SFA/SPL etc., and events thus far have proved him right, Hearts appear to have lost out in £800K from the Lee Wallace transfer fee when Rangers went bust, no football creditors rule up there. Hearts fans are all but unanimous for "No to Newco" and are writting to the club in droves. They and many like them think 3rd Div is the only acceptable outcome, the favoured outcome is Rangers completely dead. Mainly because of the cheating that has been discovered. Yes or No, Poll from Hearts forum: YES(6 votes [0.62%] - View) Percentage of vote: 0.62% NO GTF(952 votes [98.25%] - View) Percentage of vote: 98.25% UNDECIDED(11 votes [1.14%] - View) Most fans up North see this as a tipping point for the game up there to level the playing field, their view tends to be, appropriate sanctions for Rangers in line with their trangressions or "what's the point in continuing". I worked up there (Aberdeen for 7 years) and without exception the non-Rangers I know are all NO. It's all about sporting inegrity in the fans eyes. The Dundee Utd chairman has changed from a "yes" to a "no" due to fan pressure. If it's a closed vote don't be surprised if Celtic vote "yes" (despite what their fans want) as thay have a lot to lose because the other chairmen are going to be after a MUCH more equitable share of revenues.

Thought that why he'd come off in the last game, I noticed he was feeling his lower back (and arse cheek) at a corner just before being subbed

Spurs - time will tell, but we are set up as good as we could be to match/outdo them. Rangers, as you requested, sensible discussion please: First off bit of background: Rangers plc is to be liquidated, cease to be, it will remain in admin for a while until the liquidators take over. Currently Rangers (Oldco) still owns the SFA registration and the SPL share, but it has no assetts and cannot trade. Newco "The Rangers Football Club" has bought the assetts (ground, training facilities) but has no players, players could TUPE accross if they want to but "newco" would have to honour their existing contracts, "newco" has no money. Can't sell season tickets etc because they don't know what division they'll be playing in. IF the players decline to TUPE, they'll be free agents. To the pending possible sanctions: Rangers have been liquidated by HMRC because during Craig Whyte's ownership, in order to keep up with their spend, they paid no VAT, Income Tax (which they did deduct but withheld) or NI to HMRC that was about £20 Mill. That broke SFA rules and an independant judicial panel was set up (chaired by a Judge). That found them guilty and imposed a £100K fine (the max permisable under the rules) they also imposed a transfer ban for 12 months on any player over 18. Stating they'd seriously considered expulsion, but that was thought to be to harsh at the other end of the scale they thought a cup ban way too lenient. So the panel found a "halfway house" in the transfer embargo. In a spectacular "own goal" The administrators took the SFA to court (the real court not a sporting court) to appeal against the transfer embargo (not the verdict, just the penalty), thus breaking FIFA and UEFA "cardinal rules". The judge ruled in Rangers favour as the transfer embargo was not a penalty stated in the SFA rulebook. So the panel has to sit again to reconsider it's punishment, which MUST be within the rulebook, whilst UEFA and FIFA look on. They can't increase the fine as they've levied the max already, they've already stated a cup ban was too lenient so they are left with expulsion, or more likely a suspension. They can't make up a halfway house becasue the appeal Judge said penalty must be "by the book". FIFA threatened explusion of the Swiss FA from world football IF they didn't knack FC Scion for a similar thing. The SFA cannot be "lenient". There's arguments around the football penalties in as much as do they apply to "newco", consensus seems the penalties are attached to the "club" and the SFA membership and if that's transferred to "newco" the penalties will follow. The SPL chairman has said previously a condition of any application to join the SPL by "newco" is conditional on the penalties being accepted, fans of other clubs are not holding their breath on that though. Also a cup ban would be a huge let off, Dunfermline were banned from the Scottish Cup for an "admin error" which led to one inelligible player being fielded in a game. http://www.dailyreco...86908-23882815/ As an aside - Livingston FC went into liquidation for a single day but were then rescued, the SFA and SFL demoted them to the third division, it's widely rumoured they have a huge damages claim written up ready to serve IF "new" The Rangers got back into the SPL. Dual Contracts: If proven (which seems likely) Rangers will have been guilty of fielding ineligible players over something like 20 years, the penalty for which is those games being recorded as a 3-0 loss, thus they'll lose all their titles and likely be open to claims from many other clubs (Porto - I think it was- have alreaady made noises over the UEFA cup semi final). If the big tax case goes against them, that will prove the double contracts and add about another £70 Mill onto what HMRC are going to "chase those involved" for - David Murray will not be sleeping well at night. (btw the Big Tax case is a Rangers appeal as HMRC have already sent them the bill, it's not a case deciding if there's a case to answer). EBT list: http://www.bbc.co.uk...w-west-18148818 SFA is between a rock and a hard place (all of Ranger making) there's 6 weeks until the start of the season and as it stands Rangers exists in two places - Oldco - fucked, Newco no players and no league or association membership. All that said, most fans reckon there'll be a HUGE rug found to sweep everything under as many top people in the SFA/SFL are ex Gers, some of whom also had EBT's !!! The taxman wont be so forgiving of the protagonists. Check out Alex Thomson (C4 News blokey and Mag) on twitter and his blogs, he's been getting a REALLy hard time off the Glasgow press becasue he's been asking the hard questions. Edit one of the base rules of gaining SFL membership for a "new club" is to produce 3 years audited accounts, newco "The Rangers" have existed since Friday. The third division may be the BEST they can hope for. The new owner Charles Green (despised as an assett stripperwhen chairman at Sheff Utd) has already said "The Rangers" may play no football this year.

OK Simply put, Spurs operate within their means and have been reasonably succesfull at it. We now operate within our means model and should hopefully also be succesfull at it. That's how we are the same.

Can't help yourself can you. So what Rangers have done, and the consequences they will suffer, are perfectly fine ??? Yes or No

Question still stands

As mince Btw, what is football culture?