tooner

Yanks It's International Burn the Koran day actually. Love the way the American's like to get us all involved in their retarded activities and sports. Re: Canada. If we compare the US to England, then that makes Canada Scotland. Which is pretty accurate imo. ummmm...no, A. canada has never been conquered by the US and is a sovereign state of its own B. while we share geography, cultural differences are far greater than similarities "conquered" in what way Mr Mooseshagger? as in invaded and beat your asses...

I have kind of a funny story about that. In 1993, I was living in a town about an hour north of Dallas (which would be about an hour, hour and a half south of Waco) going to school and living at my aunt's house. Around the end of February, I was all excited because I was going to fly back home to Illinois to see my friends and family for my birthday, so the week before, I was telling my Texan friends how I was going to go home and blah, blah, blah. The important thing here is, the small town in Illinois that I come from is called Mount Carmel. I basically just flew back for the weekend (might have taken off Friday too), then I was back in Texas. I spent almost every waking minute going to one party or another, seeing all my friends I'd not seen for about a year, then it was back on the plane to return to school. The important thing here is that I didn't watch any TV. So I get back to Texas late Sunday evening, and I'm all tired and kind of out-of-it at school the next day. A couple of my Texan friends are all, "Hey, so where did you say you were going?" Me. "Mount Carmel." Them. "Mount Carmel, where?" Me. "Uh, Illinois? Why?" That was when they told me about the FBI storming and subsequently accidentally setting fire to David Koresh's compound which he had taken to calling Mount Carmel. Of course then I was all, "Wait- what makes you think I would have been at some religious cult's compound?" Never really got a straight answer on that one. Lols. Was wondering if anyone would pick up on that. maybe the ones in Victoria who talk with fake british accents ( i shit you not, they exist), maybe the ones who emmigrated or their children. depends on when the poll ( if you really read something <cough> WUM <cough>) was taken. Its been lots of maple syrup and red and white flag waving since the olympics, but in general we don't toot our own horn a whole lot, in my experience anyway. Canadians sound like Canadians. They have different regional dialects just like we do, or just like the people who live on either side of the Tyne. Seriously though- they don't sound British, English, Scottish, or Irish. At least no Canadian I've met does. The Quebecois obviously sound French, but I can't tell you if their French sounds like Canadian French or French French. The only thing y'all toot your horns about is hockey, Tooner in my experience, but most of the time you're right (unless your a Leafs fan in which case you're most likely completely deluded) so it's all good in my book. EDIT: Unless you're Don Cherry in which case you're right about 1% of the time and completely balls-out, full of shit the other 99%. dude! don't be that guy, you can't change who you support.....they used to be good you know.... Whatchu talkin' 'bout Willis? I'm a lifelong (well, 20 years anyway) Kings fan! I gotta give Leafs stick whenever I can, much like a Mr. Gretzky did in Game 7 of the '93 playoffs... ......so fucking close to the finals that year!

I have kind of a funny story about that. In 1993, I was living in a town about an hour north of Dallas (which would be about an hour, hour and a half south of Waco) going to school and living at my aunt's house. Around the end of February, I was all excited because I was going to fly back home to Illinois to see my friends and family for my birthday, so the week before, I was telling my Texan friends how I was going to go home and blah, blah, blah. The important thing here is, the small town in Illinois that I come from is called Mount Carmel. I basically just flew back for the weekend (might have taken off Friday too), then I was back in Texas. I spent almost every waking minute going to one party or another, seeing all my friends I'd not seen for about a year, then it was back on the plane to return to school. The important thing here is that I didn't watch any TV. So I get back to Texas late Sunday evening, and I'm all tired and kind of out-of-it at school the next day. A couple of my Texan friends are all, "Hey, so where did you say you were going?" Me. "Mount Carmel." Them. "Mount Carmel, where?" Me. "Uh, Illinois? Why?" That was when they told me about the FBI storming and subsequently accidentally setting fire to David Koresh's compound which he had taken to calling Mount Carmel. Of course then I was all, "Wait- what makes you think I would have been at some religious cult's compound?" Never really got a straight answer on that one. Lols. Was wondering if anyone would pick up on that. maybe the ones in Victoria who talk with fake british accents ( i shit you not, they exist), maybe the ones who emmigrated or their children. depends on when the poll ( if you really read something <cough> WUM <cough>) was taken. Its been lots of maple syrup and red and white flag waving since the olympics, but in general we don't toot our own horn a whole lot, in my experience anyway. Canadians sound like Canadians. They have different regional dialects just like we do, or just like the people who live on either side of the Tyne. Seriously though- they don't sound British, English, Scottish, or Irish. At least no Canadian I've met does. The Quebecois obviously sound French, but I can't tell you if their French sounds like Canadian French or French French. The only thing y'all toot your horns about is hockey, Tooner in my experience, but most of the time you're right (unless your a Leafs fan in which case you're most likely completely deluded) so it's all good in my book. EDIT: Unless you're Don Cherry in which case you're right about 1% of the time and completely balls-out, full of shit the other 99%. dude! don't be that guy, you can't change who you support.....they used to be good you know....

I have kind of a funny story about that. In 1993, I was living in a town about an hour north of Dallas (which would be about an hour, hour and a half south of Waco) going to school and living at my aunt's house. Around the end of February, I was all excited because I was going to fly back home to Illinois to see my friends and family for my birthday, so the week before, I was telling my Texan friends how I was going to go home and blah, blah, blah. The important thing here is, the small town in Illinois that I come from is called Mount Carmel. I basically just flew back for the weekend (might have taken off Friday too), then I was back in Texas. I spent almost every waking minute going to one party or another, seeing all my friends I'd not seen for about a year, then it was back on the plane to return to school. The important thing here is that I didn't watch any TV. So I get back to Texas late Sunday evening, and I'm all tired and kind of out-of-it at school the next day. A couple of my Texan friends are all, "Hey, so where did you say you were going?" Me. "Mount Carmel." Them. "Mount Carmel, where?" Me. "Uh, Illinois? Why?" That was when they told me about the FBI storming and subsequently accidentally setting fire to David Koresh's compound which he had taken to calling Mount Carmel. Of course then I was all, "Wait- what makes you think I would have been at some religious cult's compound?" Never really got a straight answer on that one. Lols. Was wondering if anyone would pick up on that. maybe the ones in Victoria who talk with fake british accents ( i shit you not, they exist), maybe the ones who emmigrated or their children. depends on when the poll ( if you really read something <cough> WUM <cough>) was taken. Its been lots of maple syrup and red and white flag waving since the olympics, but in general we don't toot our own horn a whole lot, in my experience anyway. Canadians sound like Canadians. They have different regional dialects just like we do, or just like the people who live on either side of the Tyne. Seriously though- they don't sound British, English, Scottish, or Irish. At least no Canadian I've met does. The Quebecois obviously sound French, but I can't tell you if their French sounds like Canadian French or French French. The only thing y'all toot your horns about is hockey, Tooner in my experience, but most of the time you're right (unless your a Leafs fan in which case you're most likely completely deluded) so it's all good in my book. they do not sound french, like the guy in one of the matrix movies says "I love the French language.... fantastic language, especially to curse with... it's like wiping your arse with silk"...quebecois sounds like an english person trying to speak french, i had a roomate who came back from a exchange program in france, he grew up in a french household and was for all intents and purposes french/ french canadian and was loudly and constantly derided by the children at his billets house for his "outrageous accent"

maybe the ones in Victoria who talk with fake british accents ( i shit you not, they exist), maybe the ones who emmigrated or their children. depends on when the poll ( if you really read something <cough> WUM <cough>) was taken. Its been lots of maple syrup and red and white flag waving since the olympics, but in general we don't toot our own horn a whole lot, in my experience anyway. Much more sensible than amerians, the same amount of guns and a fraction of gun crime. to true, but it (gun crime) is on the rise in major cities like T.O. and Vancouver. I blame Steven Harper, thats our PM Stevie.

Yanks It's International Burn the Koran day actually. Love the way the American's like to get us all involved in their retarded activities and sports. Re: Canada. If we compare the US to England, then that makes Canada Scotland. Which is pretty accurate imo. ummmm...no, A. canada has never been conquered by the US and is a sovereign state of its own B. while we share geography, cultural differences are far greater than similarities Aye, but: You're situated North of the US. You have a lot of mountains and lakes. The population ratios are similar (with a lot of concentration in one area). You're both ex-British colonies. Canada must have a high proportion of Scottish immigrants (I know of loads of Scots who moved there). You even have a Scottish twang aboot your accent. You like a drink. A lot. Case rested. I met these kids years ago in Holland, they were from Newfoundland, and they sounded more Irish than the Irish, in the main though Canadians speak a generic yank accent. hahaha...how many canadians from different regions have you come into contact with? there are many different dialects/accents across canada just as there are in britain re: NL (thats New Foundland and Labrador) yeah they dont quite sound like anyone

maybe the ones in Victoria who talk with fake british accents ( i shit you not, they exist), maybe the ones who emmigrated or their children. depends on when the poll ( if you really read something <cough> WUM <cough>) was taken. Its been lots of maple syrup and red and white flag waving since the olympics, but in general we don't toot our own horn a whole lot, in my experience anyway.

Yanks It's International Burn the Koran day actually. Love the way the American's like to get us all involved in their retarded activities and sports. Re: Canada. If we compare the US to England, then that makes Canada Scotland. Which is pretty accurate imo. ummmm...no, A. canada has never been conquered by the US and is a sovereign state of its own B. while we share geography, cultural differences are far greater than similarities Aye, but: You're situated North of the US. You have a lot of mountains and lakes. The population ratios are similar (with a lot of concentration in one area). You're both ex-British colonies. Canada must have a high proportion of Scottish immigrants (I know of loads of Scots who moved there). You even have a Scottish twang aboot your accent. You like a drink. A lot. Case rested. well when you put it like that....I can get behind that...

Yanks It's International Burn the Koran day actually. Love the way the American's like to get us all involved in their retarded activities and sports. Re: Canada. If we compare the US to England, then that makes Canada Scotland. Which is pretty accurate imo. ummmm...no, A. canada has never been conquered by the US and is a sovereign state of its own B. while we share geography, cultural differences are far greater than similarities

agreed, not being sensitive (or even a yank), just saying I think most people outside of the congregation in question think this "burn the Koran day" is pretty retarded. Might as well be for all the identity Canada has. .... ..ok

agreed, not being sensitive (or even a yank), just saying I think most people outside of the congregation in question think this "burn the Koran day" is pretty retarded.

not to split hairs or be contrary. I think Stevies comment "yanks" is a bit of a generalization, the vast majority of people I have seen interviewed about this think they (the religous nutters) are completely fucked. Its not as if this tiny radical religous faction from the deepest darkest southern united states is the status quo for american culture. I'm just sayin.

need a hug? clearly too young to remember the 90's tbh. the last one is fekkin funny....

haha...i know the image i tried to embed didn't work, suffice to say as usual we don't agree....huge surprise

I don't see the difference between burning flags/effigies and holding protests screaming hatred at Muslims - both are free (or should be) to do so but both show underlying intolerance which is identical. Sorry like, but I don't think objecting to people telling me what I can and can't say and/or demonstrating anti-British sentiments about our troop or our way of life is intolerant. I think it's quite justified. If they don't like it, they can fuck off to somewhere more suited to their beliefs. Would you go to Egypt and walk down the street holding your wife's/girlfriends hand when you knew it wasn't the norm way of life and you would be in the shit ? Is that intolerant or showing respect for the host countries customs or way of life, or do you stand by your apparent claim that you should stand your ground at the Egyptian courts and legal system and insist how intolerant they are ? bit confused by this, i thought you were holding up the event of a woman in Egypt being fined for wearing a bikini as intolerant...no? please clarify.... it's straightforward enough in its contradiction maybe.... so are they being intolerant or not....can't have it both ways. you seem to be slipping into your regular mode of arguing from both sides so you can be correct. of course that is just the opinion of this plastic "yank" yep, it's just the opinion of a plastic yank. Protest about "intolerance" in Egypt, and see what happens to you, is the message. Fairly straightforward, as I said. i understood about the intolerance bit, just unsure who you were insinuating was being intolerant, the bikini clad hoochie? for not conforming to the ways of the land. or the egyptian authorities? for being opposed to a little T&A. Well, I'll give you a clue. What happens to you in Egypt if you don't accept or show respect for the ways of the land ? We'll put to one side for a moment that she wasn't flying aeroplanes into buildings or screaming death to the infidels etc etc not answering the question then....big surprise!

Link these sources then please. saw it on espn....although it was the club stating that they had come to an agreement with NUFC but ultimately it was up to BA and his agent now

I don't see the difference between burning flags/effigies and holding protests screaming hatred at Muslims - both are free (or should be) to do so but both show underlying intolerance which is identical. Sorry like, but I don't think objecting to people telling me what I can and can't say and/or demonstrating anti-British sentiments about our troop or our way of life is intolerant. I think it's quite justified. If they don't like it, they can fuck off to somewhere more suited to their beliefs. Would you go to Egypt and walk down the street holding your wife's/girlfriends hand when you knew it wasn't the norm way of life and you would be in the shit ? Is that intolerant or showing respect for the host countries customs or way of life, or do you stand by your apparent claim that you should stand your ground at the Egyptian courts and legal system and insist how intolerant they are ? bit confused by this, i thought you were holding up the event of a woman in Egypt being fined for wearing a bikini as intolerant...no? please clarify.... it's straightforward enough in its contradiction maybe.... so are they being intolerant or not....can't have it both ways. you seem to be slipping into your regular mode of arguing from both sides so you can be correct. of course that is just the opinion of this plastic "yank" yep, it's just the opinion of a plastic yank. Protest about "intolerance" in Egypt, and see what happens to you, is the message. Fairly straightforward, as I said. i understood about the intolerance bit, just unsure who you were insinuating was being intolerant, the bikini clad hoochie? for not conforming to the ways of the land. or the egyptian authorities? for being opposed to a little T&A.

I don't see the difference between burning flags/effigies and holding protests screaming hatred at Muslims - both are free (or should be) to do so but both show underlying intolerance which is identical. Sorry like, but I don't think objecting to people telling me what I can and can't say and/or demonstrating anti-British sentiments about our troop or our way of life is intolerant. I think it's quite justified. If they don't like it, they can fuck off to somewhere more suited to their beliefs. Would you go to Egypt and walk down the street holding your wife's/girlfriends hand when you knew it wasn't the norm way of life and you would be in the shit ? Is that intolerant or showing respect for the host countries customs or way of life, or do you stand by your apparent claim that you should stand your ground at the Egyptian courts and legal system and insist how intolerant they are ? bit confused by this, i thought you were holding up the event of a woman in Egypt being fined for wearing a bikini as intolerant...no? please clarify.... it's straightforward enough in its contradiction maybe.... so are they being intolerant or not....can't have it both ways. you seem to be slipping into your regular mode of arguing from both sides so you can be correct. of course that is just the opinion of this plastic "yank"

I don't see the difference between burning flags/effigies and holding protests screaming hatred at Muslims - both are free (or should be) to do so but both show underlying intolerance which is identical. Sorry like, but I don't think objecting to people telling me what I can and can't say and/or demonstrating anti-British sentiments about our troop or our way of life is intolerant. I think it's quite justified. If they don't like it, they can fuck off to somewhere more suited to their beliefs. Would you go to Egypt and walk down the street holding your wife's/girlfriends hand when you knew it wasn't the norm way of life and you would be in the shit ? Is that intolerant or showing respect for the host countries customs or way of life, or do you stand by your apparent claim that you should stand your ground at the Egyptian courts and legal system and insist how intolerant they are ? bit confused by this, i thought you were holding up the event of a woman in Egypt being fined for wearing a bikini as intolerant...no? please clarify....

.......please say it's not just a rumour.

As I have said in other threads, the only way forward is to get to know each other better. People fear what they don't understand. I saw a poll recently - I will try to dig it up later - that said opposition to this mosque/community centre is lower among Americans who actually know individual Muslims. I just think that's naive. When two culture are diametrically opposed, there will always be conflict by definition. I mean, look at this board, with one or two notable exceptions, most people are reasonable and tolerant people, yet threads like this invariably cause a shit storm. I don't understand where you are getting the idea that our cultures are "diametrically opposed." Are we opposed because some idiot with a doctorate wrote a book called "The Clash of Civilisations"? Islamic and Western culture have influenced each other since the 7th century AD. Our histories, while not intertwined, have always had more than a nodding acquaintance. It is only in the last century or so that this notion of "us vs. them" has developed, and that is because of unfortunate factors on both sides. You see us as primitive. We see you as imperialist. Maybe both of us are right to an extent. But we have to put that aside. NJS brings up a brilliant point about the segregation of Muslim immigrants. From your perspective, you say "They keep to themselves. They don't want to integrate into our society. Why should we make the effort?" But we say "They don't approve of us or our culture. They don't want us to integrate into their society. Why should we make the effort?" Both sides must make the effort. This is why the minaret ban, the veil ban, the effort to stop this community centre are such damaging events and why they must be stopped. What message can these actions possibly send other than "we don't want you, stay out"? What effect will that have on people who came looking for a new future away from possibly restrictive lives in their home countries? It will make them think that it really is "us vs. them" and it will make them easy prey for people who want to recruit based on that mentality. But from our side, we have to realise that this is the 21st century and that it may be time to let go of some of the old ways and adapt to a new society. Sharia is a relic of the 7th century. I have never agreed with people who insist it must be implemented even in Muslim countries - have we learned nothing from the last 1300 or so years? It has to be abandoned. Women have to be given full and equal rights. The Prophet was a champion of women's rights in his own time and Islam vastly improved on their pre-Islamic status. But little has changed since his time. I don't think he would have wanted us to keep things the way they were, but to continue to strive to better our society. The best way for these changes to be made is more intermingling and more commonality. It's a lot harder to hate someone whose children you have watched grow up, with whom you take the bus to work, with whom you share bullshit NUFC rumours that someone texted you. We have to make the effort - but so do you. We have to learn about each other - did you know something like a third of American Christians don't even know that Islam is an Abrahamic religion and that we worship the same God? How can you take someone seriously who thinks you worship a 'false god' called Allah? We have to learn about each other, otherwise it really will be "us vs. them" forever. Well fucking said..... It's a well thought out post and most welcome, but I still think its naive. If you really want to break down these barriers then you have to recognise that religion is the problem imo. Not just Islam, but all of the Abrahamic faiths. Bearing this in mind we can immediately do two things - ban faith schools and ban overtly religious symbols in public life, of which the full face covering is an obvious one, and one that is utterly alien and offensive to many people (myself included) in the West. There should also be complete freedom of speech regarding religion - if you want freedom (which is a prime requisite of western countries), then you simply have to accept you have no right not to be offended. There's not a chance of this ever happening of course as long as Christianity and Islam remain so embedded in our culture. nah, it's only the muslims that are allowed to be offended Renton, and woolly headed liberals are defending them. As for the chances of them allowing complete freedom of speech, that is a huge NO. Again, the racist muslims are the ones who would be "offended" by such a thing, the poor dears. Their lifestyle is not compatible with life in the west, end of story, they can fight their jihads and getting all hot and bothered about teddy bears being called Mohammed, and daft fairy stories as much as they like, until they pull out the gun or the bomb and then they are causing real trouble. Doesn't matter if we in the west are offended by aeroplanes flying into buildings though. "cut yer hair hippee".......hahahahaha the way i took ATP's post was that we should be looking at the fact we truly have more in common than we do differences, the details are where it all goes to shit. you're religious, we're religious. you want peaceful existence, we want peaceful existence. it is the intolerants on each side that cause the friction. anyone read "childhoods end" by A.C. Clark? anyone? UFO lands, organized religion goes tits up because it has no way to rationalize or deify an external entity. "one world is enough, for all of us. we can all sink, or we all float, because we're all in the same big boat"-da Police .....I'm just sayin. "the intolerants that cause the friction". When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Did you see the recent article about a woman in Egypt being charged for wearing a bikini in public ? Who's intolerant ? Yet you think we should turn a blind eye to building a mosque near possibly the biggest terrorist atrocity in living memory to foster " better relations" ? You may be a softie liberal mate, but we aren't all like you. By they way, I'm not religious, that's why I keep this bollocks in its correct perspective. if you are going to quote then do it accurately i said the intolerants on each side, did you see the recent article about the religious group that was camped out in front of a gay couples home telling them they were going to burn in hell, until the gay couples neighbours from all over the street came and ran them off, for being intolerant! Look i understand that building a mosque near ground zero is in poor taste and very inflamatory. But its hardly illegal is it? And thats what it all boils down to, don't tax my gig if its not illegal.

As I have said in other threads, the only way forward is to get to know each other better. People fear what they don't understand. I saw a poll recently - I will try to dig it up later - that said opposition to this mosque/community centre is lower among Americans who actually know individual Muslims. I just think that's naive. When two culture are diametrically opposed, there will always be conflict by definition. I mean, look at this board, with one or two notable exceptions, most people are reasonable and tolerant people, yet threads like this invariably cause a shit storm. I don't understand where you are getting the idea that our cultures are "diametrically opposed." Are we opposed because some idiot with a doctorate wrote a book called "The Clash of Civilisations"? Islamic and Western culture have influenced each other since the 7th century AD. Our histories, while not intertwined, have always had more than a nodding acquaintance. It is only in the last century or so that this notion of "us vs. them" has developed, and that is because of unfortunate factors on both sides. You see us as primitive. We see you as imperialist. Maybe both of us are right to an extent. But we have to put that aside. NJS brings up a brilliant point about the segregation of Muslim immigrants. From your perspective, you say "They keep to themselves. They don't want to integrate into our society. Why should we make the effort?" But we say "They don't approve of us or our culture. They don't want us to integrate into their society. Why should we make the effort?" Both sides must make the effort. This is why the minaret ban, the veil ban, the effort to stop this community centre are such damaging events and why they must be stopped. What message can these actions possibly send other than "we don't want you, stay out"? What effect will that have on people who came looking for a new future away from possibly restrictive lives in their home countries? It will make them think that it really is "us vs. them" and it will make them easy prey for people who want to recruit based on that mentality. But from our side, we have to realise that this is the 21st century and that it may be time to let go of some of the old ways and adapt to a new society. Sharia is a relic of the 7th century. I have never agreed with people who insist it must be implemented even in Muslim countries - have we learned nothing from the last 1300 or so years? It has to be abandoned. Women have to be given full and equal rights. The Prophet was a champion of women's rights in his own time and Islam vastly improved on their pre-Islamic status. But little has changed since his time. I don't think he would have wanted us to keep things the way they were, but to continue to strive to better our society. The best way for these changes to be made is more intermingling and more commonality. It's a lot harder to hate someone whose children you have watched grow up, with whom you take the bus to work, with whom you share bullshit NUFC rumours that someone texted you. We have to make the effort - but so do you. We have to learn about each other - did you know something like a third of American Christians don't even know that Islam is an Abrahamic religion and that we worship the same God? How can you take someone seriously who thinks you worship a 'false god' called Allah? We have to learn about each other, otherwise it really will be "us vs. them" forever. Well fucking said..... It's a well thought out post and most welcome, but I still think its naive. If you really want to break down these barriers then you have to recognise that religion is the problem imo. Not just Islam, but all of the Abrahamic faiths. Bearing this in mind we can immediately do two things - ban faith schools and ban overtly religious symbols in public life, of which the full face covering is an obvious one, and one that is utterly alien and offensive to many people (myself included) in the West. There should also be complete freedom of speech regarding religion - if you want freedom (which is a prime requisite of western countries), then you simply have to accept you have no right not to be offended. There's not a chance of this ever happening of course as long as Christianity and Islam remain so embedded in our culture. nah, it's only the muslims that are allowed to be offended Renton, and woolly headed liberals are defending them. As for the chances of them allowing complete freedom of speech, that is a huge NO. Again, the racist muslims are the ones who would be "offended" by such a thing, the poor dears. Their lifestyle is not compatible with life in the west, end of story, they can fight their jihads and getting all hot and bothered about teddy bears being called Mohammed, and daft fairy stories as much as they like, until they pull out the gun or the bomb and then they are causing real trouble. Doesn't matter if we in the west are offended by aeroplanes flying into buildings though. "cut yer hair hippee".......hahahahaha the way i took ATP's post was that we should be looking at the fact we truly have more in common than we do differences, the details are where it all goes to shit. you're religious, we're religious. you want peaceful existence, we want peaceful existence. it is the intolerants on each side that cause the friction. anyone read "childhoods end" by A.C. Clark? anyone? UFO lands, organized religion goes tits up because it has no way to rationalize or deify an external entity. "one world is enough, for all of us. we can all sink, or we all float, because we're all in the same big boat"-da Police .....I'm just sayin.

As I have said in other threads, the only way forward is to get to know each other better. People fear what they don't understand. I saw a poll recently - I will try to dig it up later - that said opposition to this mosque/community centre is lower among Americans who actually know individual Muslims. I just think that's naive. When two culture are diametrically opposed, there will always be conflict by definition. I mean, look at this board, with one or two notable exceptions, most people are reasonable and tolerant people, yet threads like this invariably cause a shit storm. I don't understand where you are getting the idea that our cultures are "diametrically opposed." Are we opposed because some idiot with a doctorate wrote a book called "The Clash of Civilisations"? Islamic and Western culture have influenced each other since the 7th century AD. Our histories, while not intertwined, have always had more than a nodding acquaintance. It is only in the last century or so that this notion of "us vs. them" has developed, and that is because of unfortunate factors on both sides. You see us as primitive. We see you as imperialist. Maybe both of us are right to an extent. But we have to put that aside. NJS brings up a brilliant point about the segregation of Muslim immigrants. From your perspective, you say "They keep to themselves. They don't want to integrate into our society. Why should we make the effort?" But we say "They don't approve of us or our culture. They don't want us to integrate into their society. Why should we make the effort?" Both sides must make the effort. This is why the minaret ban, the veil ban, the effort to stop this community centre are such damaging events and why they must be stopped. What message can these actions possibly send other than "we don't want you, stay out"? What effect will that have on people who came looking for a new future away from possibly restrictive lives in their home countries? It will make them think that it really is "us vs. them" and it will make them easy prey for people who want to recruit based on that mentality. But from our side, we have to realise that this is the 21st century and that it may be time to let go of some of the old ways and adapt to a new society. Sharia is a relic of the 7th century. I have never agreed with people who insist it must be implemented even in Muslim countries - have we learned nothing from the last 1300 or so years? It has to be abandoned. Women have to be given full and equal rights. The Prophet was a champion of women's rights in his own time and Islam vastly improved on their pre-Islamic status. But little has changed since his time. I don't think he would have wanted us to keep things the way they were, but to continue to strive to better our society. The best way for these changes to be made is more intermingling and more commonality. It's a lot harder to hate someone whose children you have watched grow up, with whom you take the bus to work, with whom you share bullshit NUFC rumours that someone texted you. We have to make the effort - but so do you. We have to learn about each other - did you know something like a third of American Christians don't even know that Islam is an Abrahamic religion and that we worship the same God? How can you take someone seriously who thinks you worship a 'false god' called Allah? We have to learn about each other, otherwise it really will be "us vs. them" forever. Well fucking said.....

Fuck I hate Dubstep......music to shrug to tbh....gimme some funky house breaks or some good old DnB or jungle......LIGHTA!!!

This tbh. agree....i saw him interviewed and he sort of had a ho hum attitude like he didn't think he'd be back at city. he mentioned that he was an older player with injury history and thought his career horizon was close. maybe a little pep talk by management coould convince him of low wages with the nostalgia card............