NJS

I think I said before that the Tories think/hope they can get back to some kind of decent growth (probably coincidental to their actual policies) by the next election and think the pain is worth it for that reason rather than addressing underlying issues as you say. Of course the idealogical zeal of public services cuts is an added bonus.

I'm quite concerned that there's an element of complaceny at work where they think getting back up and surviving one season represents a "job done" and that they can move ahead with a new "vision". This would then suggest that removing the player power element as you say is the "right" thing to do at this time. The worry is that they don't understand the importance of that spirit we all appreciated last year and think its somehow not needed any more. As others have said if the replacements don't work out we're fucked.

Thing is human nature means they will say "Well if you're paying him x I want an increase to y" and a spiral of discontent starts. Then again if you paid everyone the same there'd be no concept of reward. My view has always been that they should all be paid a notional small wage (say 5k in the modern game) and then have performance related bonuses (which I know they have anyway but still) which could be individual and team based up to a decent level. Again though such a scheme would have to be universal.

The Ashley haters of course wont see wise management or greedy players, will they? Wise management would include a big picture view of the effect of losing those two particular players in terms of squad spirit as well as the "cold logic" of lucrative contracts for ageing players.

Are you Michel Platini?, because that is the whole drive behind the new rules. Idealistic as I said - ways round them will be found. As we've discussed almost ad nauseum the way rich owners have trumped the turnover = spending power model has only been to the detriment of football imo.

I think people sometimes want it both ways - they want to whinge about the Smiths and Luques of the world but also want to see good players who give their all justly rewarded. However the report from a few weeks ago about finances which highlighted the huge losses at most clubs did define wages as the main problem. Of course the idea that we can have a good team paying "peanuts" is idealistic especially as so called smaller clubs are paying daft wages as well. I guess I'd like to retain the concept of the possibility of paying high wages for the right people combined with a strategy to live within our means - if this appoach was a universal trend it could only be good for football in general.

I thought it was just a case of increased dosage = dodgy. I was mooted to have a gall bladder op a few years ago (turned out I didn't need it) and was told it would be iffy due to my weight because of dosage - that was just from the GP though.

I'd get rid of Ameobi, Best and Lovenkrands before I got to Ranger - he has a bit of promise despite being an idiot (at the moment to give him the benefit)

usual rubbish. I've said ages ago they made mistakes. Its black and white with you tbh, you hate Shepherd, and thought we would do better with someone else, but we haven't, and it might take a while before we do. It isn't worth replying to such a polarised, insular, incorrect view, and I'm not taking the piss. We are not competing at the levels we should be, thats a fact, however you want to dress it up, we have become a selling club again, so stop making excuses. Polite request ignored - too much to ask - you are a complete and utter waste of time as a contributor to this any other forum..

The thing is I don't think anyone objects to paying good wages to good players to attract them and going on from that attract others by association. Of course those wages have to be affordable in terms of squad numbers (ie if you have one Owen that doesn't mean you only pay peanuts for the whole defence) and of course in relation to overall finances. I remember that for many years of the previous regime we did have a very healthy wage/turnover ration but towards the end it did get skewed into dodgy territory but that was probably just another symptom of the way football has gone in general. The problem on the board now is that we can't discuss an individual issue without reference to LM's very black and white view. I can state that I think signing good players for high wages is fine as I just did but then say I think signing Owen was a mistake. That will be twisted into me saying I prefer Ashley's world view which is obviously not true. What I'm trying to say to you LM is that your view that everything done previously was great and beyond reproach and everything done by Ashley has been wrong is too polarised which is why you can't accept that issues CAN be debated without reference to one universal view either way. As everything else in life it's shades of grey that rule which I hope you can realise which would improve contribution from all sides and views. I hope you can respond to this sensibly.

I think it was clear that he was waiting for one of the 'big four' at the time to come up for him and only decided to join us when it was clear that none of the rest were interested. Liverpool were in for him but wouldn't pay anywhere near what we offered so he was waiting for them to change their mind and match us - It was a classic Shepherd tactic of bidding "too much" to give us a chance. Nowt wrong with that if it had all worked out but unfortunately it didn't.

When you think he was injured almost as much as Owen in a period in which Owen had two serious injuries and Martins didn't have any, it says a lot. I despise the pair of them tbh. I suppose at least Martins had the good grace to pretend he cared about the fans whilst the media savvy Owen could barely contain his disdain for us after 'lowering' himself to come here. The ONLY reason he came was money, Fred was the only mug dumb enough to shell out 16mil and 130k p.w. I said this previously, It's not a wise move to sign any player just on money, they need to want to come and play I disagree like, he came because he wanted more regular football in the run up to the World Cup and because Liverpool wouldn't pay what Madrid wanted for a player who'd left for £6m (or whatever it was) a year before. Not saying the money wasn't a factor but he definitely wanted 1st team football. Bit of both for me - I always felt that even given those two factors he was still reluctant to come. I didn't like how much persuading he took - I know he was a "superstar" but I've always stood by the idea that we should give British players a couple of hours to decide whether they want to sign for us (in principle if necessary) and foreigners a couple of days at the most. Any longer always makes me feel as if they're starting off on the wrong track.

One of the reasons I took this week off was to sort out my gardens but one day of labour on Tuesday convinced me the job was too big - just arranged for a bloke to completely sort it next week for a reasonable amount - result.

Well I know that and I was that type of dweeb as well, I was just unclear where Durham and Northumberland ended and began south of the Tyne. Just mentioned the Gateshead bit to wind-up the residents Historically with Sunderland being the big team of Durham, Gateshead had 8 Sunderland fans to 1 Newcastle fan I read. Even more so when we voted Gateshead out the league. I think this idea of SAFC being "Durham's team" is more of a modern SMB myth than anything else Stevie. I think most people's allegiance was more to do with following their Dad's team than basing it on geography - obviously as someone who was born in Co. Durham as was and closer to Roker than SJP I can say it was certainly not the case for me or any other NUFC fans from Shields I know. Gateshead is a funny one due to them having a biggish team of their own but when I used to to matches with the old supporters club when I first started I did know loads of lads from there who were Newcastle through and through - and I'd also add that when I started going by train I made many friends from other parts of Co. Durham as far south as Darlo as well so as I said I don't think its clear cut.

Arlington, Lincoln memorial/Vietnam memorial (quite close to each other), National Space Museum. Georgetown for night out.

I think the notion that players like Simpson (and Shola obviously) are okay and don't need improving on is as dangerous as replacing Barton etc.

I have to say I found Enrique's inability to pass the ball 5 yards to a teammate in his first season incredible but he has drastically improved on that score.

At the start of last season I thought he was pretty decent too but thought he ended quite badly - a lot of the goals which cost us so much could be put down to him imo and I think we should look at replacing him or at the very least having some competition for him - I don't count either Taylor as a threat for that purpose.

My opinion too.

Absolutely knackered - spent about 4 hours all told attacking the garden/jungle with trimmer, shredder and chainsaw (great fun) and only did about 20% of what I need to get done. Might hire a fuck off shredder for the weekend as the one I got last year is a wimp. Manual labour always makes me grateful I have half a brain which can make me a living.

Slightly relieved - internet was off this morning and on phoning Virgin was told it definitely wasn't a general problem and my modem was knackered - told an engineer would be here today but then when he went to book it was told Thursday was first appointment - the prospect of 2.5 days with no internet (other than via phone) is actually quite scary - sad twat that I am. However just came upstairs to take a break from garden clearance and saw all the lights on the modem on - they were wrong surprise, surprise.

Because that's what we do. We did it with Milner. We did it with Given and Nzogbia. We did it with Carroll. We sell without cover at the end of a window, occasionally having bought early to move season tickets. Do me a favour, Liverpool sold Torres at the last minute, leading to the Carroll deal. Hindsight proves it was better not to make some stupid 12th hour sale and instead have the time now to invest that money properly. They agreed the deal at the weekend leaving them the full monday to get their men.

I think I've said before I find CT's irrational optimism quite enjoyable at times as generally I like to live in irrational hope sometimes as well but I think going this far leaves him open to some piss-taking. I think HF's posts about good players coming in being "pointless" if it comes with the price of the most positive aspect of the last two years (the team spirit) have been overlooked and that sums up my view.

Thought he always wanted to finish at Oldham - maybe the prospect of getting kicked and making "cheeky mistimed tackles" without red shirt rules didn't appeal. Canny player though.

Leaving aside his comment post Keegan about putting that in, I was just stating that a summer with zero outlay would have been a disaster waiting to happen, I then mentioned a figure I think equates to a modest amount out of summer cash flow that should have been spent anyway. Last summer we did spend a bit of money when the financial position was a lot bleaker than it is now which is why I think he should protect his investment more. The Carroll money is a convenient excuse/cover-up for the usual cop-out. I wouldn't be surprised if post Enrique/Barton/other departures we end up with very little being spent net. Some of the mooted signings look promising but overall I'd be pleasantly surprised if we start next season with a stronger team/squad.