NJS

Winter should have been charged with corruption for his part in Snowgate. Notice how all the offended have a grudge againt us?

Un-doubtedly but I'd still like to see a few things go just to confirm that - the blasphemy laws for example (I know 1922 or something since successfully used but they sill exist).

The rights and protection religion has in this country comes from a time when the majority basically had to adhere - hence the establishment of the unwritten constitution itself. I'd loved to think that post-enlightenment, what I would call abhorrent hangovers are left as a sop to the poor little theists almost out of sympathy but the truth is the opposite. I just wish people were more honest when it came to the census - I know evetyone doesn't have to feel the same way as me or Renton but I wish the people who see religion as a Weddings/christenings/funerals deal wouldn't tick the Christian box. If we got a true picture of faiths then at least we could refer to them as the minority and for example don't give them concessions to hate gays or reject anything else the majority want. We've never had an unwritten constitution for the record, it's always been 'written' in one way or another, it's just that it was never codeified or consolidated until the Human Rights Act. Not that we ever really had rights as such either. Liberties would be the correct term....ie whatever the law didnt say you couldnt do, you could do. We never actually had the right to do anything until 1998. OMG!!!11! The sad thing is my limited knowledge which I used to refer to it as that comes from seeing St John Stevas describe it as that on several occasions. I bow to your superior knowledge (on this and this alone )

The rights and protection religion has in this country comes from a time when the majority basically had to adhere - hence the establishment of the unwritten constitution itself. I'd loved to think that post-enlightenment, what I would call abhorrent hangovers are left as a sop to the poor little theists almost out of sympathy but the truth is the opposite. I just wish people were more honest when it came to the census - I know evetyone doesn't have to feel the same way as me or Renton but I wish the people who see religion as a Weddings/christenings/funerals deal wouldn't tick the Christian box. If we got a true picture of faiths then at least we could refer to them as the minority and for example don't give them concessions to hate gays or reject anything else the majority want.

It looks like the cow isn't going to let it lie as theres another article today suggesting action. Thats all fair enough as long as the next time she writes about "fat geordies" everybody complains and also if the FA take action then every ground and club is treated he same. I say this because you can guaranteed Mido is going to have to get used to this treatment for a while at least. I'll also add that if the FA look at the tape properly then they'll expose Mido's "I only told them to shush" lie.

Ravanelli? Emerson? Juninho?

Yeah I can go for the whole "lets stone people for wearing mixed fibre clothes" angle as well.

To be honest when I espouse mockery I would much rather have a good argument based on some kind of "facts"- I've enjoyed a couple on here with The Inspiration and Isegrim which I think (and hope) caused no deep offence. Unfortunately I do sometimes express my frustration with a "how can you be so stupid" which doesn't help.

I agree but sadly millions of people are "born into it" and have no choice under penalty of death. Its people who live in "free" countries and still choose it that deserve mockery. Are you saying people who are religious should be mocked? I'm not religious as in I don't follow a particular religion but I respect those who wish to. I respect individual beliefs as long as they remain private but despise organised religion and think anyone who advertises irrational nonsense should be mocked.

I agree but sadly millions of people are "born into it" and have no choice under penalty of death. Its people who live in "free" countries and still choose it that deserve mockery.

Given the fact that organized religion as a whole cannot accept criticism in any way, shape or form and cannot exchange views on any critical basis, mockery is the only thing rational people have left.

I think she's completely misread the chants and shown her own prejudices at the same time. Being a Sky era fan she won't know that both us and the Mackems have been taking the piss out of Boro for being choild abusers for a good 20 years. As I said his name rhymes so he got the abuse. Its then interesting that she sees accusation of paedophilia as "anti-arab" and "Islamophobic" which I think hides prejudice. either that or any insult to any Muslim is now based on his religion.

Apart from "Mido is a Paedo" (Unlucky that he plays for Boro and his name rhymes) - what were the chants she's on about?

Define "successful" Decent family? Money in the bank? Genuine friends? Admired by anybody but the desperate? Decent songwriter? Remembered in the future? (presuming non-pathetic suicide)

I'd accept that - I think the current generation are the kids of the people who were most disaffected in the 80s.

If you do a search on "youth murders" on the BBC you get stories going back years - for example Damilola Taylor was in 2001. I'm willing to accept a degree of increase but I still think the view is exaggerated. Also this may not be a popular view but in the 80s a lot of youth "steam" was released at football matches - both in terms of actual violence and more general passion compared to today. I'm not saying I'd return to pre-Hillsborough days but maybe its just a fact of modern life that young people need an outlet. The question then becomes do you try and clamp down on that steam (which seems to be the prevailing suggestion), provide a safe outlet or attack the basic need - the latter probably being a harder task.

I think everyone who'd read the other stories had done the sums and knew they didn't make sense so the SS has just named the figure and made another none story. I love the way people actually think theres a difference between the tabloid tossers and the Thomson House muppets.

I always find myself a bit of a schizophrenic when it comes to law and order - there's a part of me which genuinely would be happy with a gunshot to the back of the head for vast tracts of society who just don't "get it" but I try and temper that what I suppose is common sense. The kneejerk build more prisons/lock'em up for years doesn't work - the US has the largest prison population per capita and the harshest sentencing in the world yet still has huge crime rates compared to here and Europe. There is also no correlation whatsoever between murder rates in the states with the death penalty and those without - mainly for the simple reason that the vast majority of murders are heat of the moment things (despite the law needing intent). Its also true that media hype is a factor in perceived crime - murder rates of the last 10 years are actually down. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be shocked by a kid getting shot but the "climate of fear" being built up is an exaggeration. I think this crime/gang thing can be questioned on one level in the same way that alcohol abuse is - in Europe the problem seems to be less apparent (though not unknown) so I think we have to look at the differences between what on other levels are pretty similar countries. My honest opinion is that we are reaping the seed sowed in the last 25 years or so by the tenets of Thatcherism. - I'm not going to quote the "no such thing as society" as that is too easy a crutch - I'm talking about the more general materialistic Me, Me, Me society we have become where worth is measured by celebrity and wealth. I also think that for linguistic reasons we are more influenced by the more negative attributes of Americanism. I also have a strong problem with guns. I know people will say a bad man is a bad man no matter what weapon he uses but I think gun use is now seen as so "cool" that it has to be addressed at source - I honestly don't see any legitimate use for firearms being made apart from for the armed forces and its about time they were more controlled. If it turns out the weapons on the streets are ex-army or are being smuggled then for me it would make sense to attack the supply roots rather than convince idiots that guns are wrong.

Client of a client really. And I probably should have taken their name off it actually. Shh now. Just interested - the bank I work for are in the process of buying them.

Do you work for West LB Meenzer or are they just a client?

Can't give you a link but my opinion remains the same - if Cantona had scored that goal Sky would have shown it every day up to and including the present.

Bit of both imo. As I said there are similar areas in the NE which have the same problems where I'd say theres a desire to live up to a "hard geordie" image which is paralleled by the gangsta shite.

I saw bits of it when switching over from C4. My opinion is theres too much respect for the culture thats evolved in those areas - people are afraid to say that its not cool to be thick, its not cool to sound thick and its not cool to be in gangs but theres a notion that just saying that is racist. Of course similar problems exist in the north east with generations of "scum" which has got nothing to do with race which shows that the bigger picture is more complicated than that.

Cue replies about context or that I'm not expert enough to understand it - it's a book and I can read. You mean as in the context of a parable? But clearly you can read and are clever enough to see what's really going on with your amazing powers of interpretation. How about quoting the hundreds of other examples where he preaches about love, respect and tolerance? Tbh I'm not even getting involved in this debate with you because a. I don't know enough about the bible and b. I can see the defensive stand you're already taking so I'm guessing it's going to be like debating with a brick wall and c. I really dislike your avatar. Fair enough I admit to cherry picking - which is what its all based on after all.

Cue replies about context or that I'm not expert enough to understand it - it's a book and I can read.