Why?

[sandman02uk 0]

I've got a question. Do you think SSH should be banned from this forum because he's like a stuck fucking record?

 

It's a yes from me

 

Seconded.

 

Couldn't see that coming a mile off.

 

No I dont, what use is a forum where everyone is a just a clone of everyone else, thats not a discussion thats just a wankfest

[Guest alex]

He's a good rent-a-quote about how the fans never give a manager time

Not unlike yourself in that regard

 

Well it's true isn't it? Why would Gullit still be so pissed off after all these years that that is what he says every time? The bloke cleary thinks he has been unjustly treated, funnily enough like every single manager since KK.

 

And now irony of ironies, all we hear is 'give Sam time, he'll get it right'. Like fuck he will.

 

 

FFS, we get the message already. Why don't you stop boring us and leave the forum for a year or so, and come back when you no doubt have been proved correct?

 

Ha, it's happened already. Don't dare criticise the Messiah! Ridiculous.

 

Don't be ridiculous. Firstly, to me he is not a messiah, I have reservations about him, but I think he is step forward and I hope he is a significant step forward. Secondly, I am happy to hear arguments to the contrary. Well reasoned ones, that is. But you are repeating the same objections ad nauseum, and they're not even proper objections. It's boring. We know your opinion, you don't have to repeat it in every thread.

 

I wasn't even talking about Sam in here, you;'re the one who leapt to his defence.

 

I haven't repeated a single argument. Each thread is a separate valid point, backed up by the singular fact no-one has any answer to them beyond the juvenile and burn the heretic responses.

 

I still await an answer to: what punishment awaits his outstanding investigations?, Why does Fred think Sam is a top 2 manager? Why do people think Sam will stand up to Fred? What are these mysterious 28 job titles we supposedly don't have? Why will Sam be the first manager at NUFC in a decade not to be criticised whatever happens for the next 2 years? Why is Lee Clark 'jobs for the boys' but Gary Speed is an inspired appointment? How did we repair Dyer and Owen with third rate medical staff? Why does Bramble get another chance when no doubt he was on his way out? On what basis has Fat Sam just jumped into the top 3 paid managers in the league?

I don't know the answer to those questions but in many cases I don't accept as a given the presumption behind the question either. Also, you've never back a thing up you've said in this particular thread either. I don't think you should be banned (not at all) but I can't really be bothered to debate with you when you go on like this. Sorry.

[Renton 18038]

He's a good rent-a-quote about how the fans never give a manager time

Not unlike yourself in that regard

 

Well it's true isn't it? Why would Gullit still be so pissed off after all these years that that is what he says every time? The bloke cleary thinks he has been unjustly treated, funnily enough like every single manager since KK.

 

And now irony of ironies, all we hear is 'give Sam time, he'll get it right'. Like fuck he will.

 

 

FFS, we get the message already. Why don't you stop boring us and leave the forum for a year or so, and come back when you no doubt have been proved correct?

 

Ha, it's happened already. Don't dare criticise the Messiah! Ridiculous.

 

Don't be ridiculous. Firstly, to me he is not a messiah, I have reservations about him, but I think he is step forward and I hope he is a significant step forward. Secondly, I am happy to hear arguments to the contrary. Well reasoned ones, that is. But you are repeating the same objections ad nauseum, and they're not even proper objections. It's boring. We know your opinion, you don't have to repeat it in every thread.

 

I wasn't even talking about Sam in here, you;'re the one who leapt to his defence.

 

I haven't repeated a single argument. Each thread is a separate valid point, backed up by the singular fact no-one has any answer to them beyond the juvenile and burn the heretic responses.

 

I still await an answer to: what punishment awaits his outstanding investigations?, Why does Fred think Sam is a top 2 manager? Why do people think Sam will stand up to Fred? What are these mysterious 28 job titles we supposedly don't have? Why will Sam be the first manager at NUFC in a decade not to be criticised whatever happens for the next 2 years? Why is Lee Clark 'jobs for the boys' but Gary Speed is an inspired appointment? How did we repair Dyer and Owen with third rate medical staff? Why does Bramble get another chance when no doubt he was on his way out? On what basis has Fat Sam just jumped into the top 3 paid managers in the league?

 

Most of those "questions" aren't worthy of an answer; they give an incite into how your mind works maybe but have no relevance to the real world. Fwiw my answers would be: from what I have seen Allardyce has nothing to answer in the investigation, who says he has to be a top 2 manager?, general perception he is not a yes man like Roeder, I think we urgently need an improved backroom staff covering virtually all areas, eh?, who says Gary Speed is even coming?, eh?, who's said anything about Bramble?, is he really the third highest paid manager in the league - I doubt it.

[Isegrim 8941]

He's a good rent-a-quote about how the fans never give a manager time

Not unlike yourself in that regard

 

Well it's true isn't it? Why would Gullit still be so pissed off after all these years that that is what he says every time? The bloke cleary thinks he has been unjustly treated, funnily enough like every single manager since KK.

 

And now irony of ironies, all we hear is 'give Sam time, he'll get it right'. Like fuck he will.

 

 

FFS, we get the message already. Why don't you stop boring us and leave the forum for a year or so, and come back when you no doubt have been proved correct?

 

Ha, it's happened already. Don't dare criticise the Messiah! Ridiculous.

 

Don't be ridiculous. Firstly, to me he is not a messiah, I have reservations about him, but I think he is step forward and I hope he is a significant step forward. Secondly, I am happy to hear arguments to the contrary. Well reasoned ones, that is. But you are repeating the same objections ad nauseum, and they're not even proper objections. It's boring. We know your opinion, you don't have to repeat it in every thread.

 

I wasn't even talking about Sam in here, you;'re the one who leapt to his defence.

 

I haven't repeated a single argument. Each thread is a separate valid point, backed up by the singular fact no-one has any answer to them beyond the juvenile and burn the heretic responses.

 

I still await an answer to: what punishment awaits his outstanding investigations?, Why does Fred think Sam is a top 2 manager? Why do people think Sam will stand up to Fred? What are these mysterious 28 job titles we supposedly don't have? Why will Sam be the first manager at NUFC in a decade not to be criticised whatever happens for the next 2 years? Why is Lee Clark 'jobs for the boys' but Gary Speed is an inspired appointment? How did we repair Dyer and Owen with third rate medical staff? Why does Bramble get another chance when no doubt he was on his way out? On what basis has Fat Sam just jumped into the top 3 paid managers in the league?

You harp on about these "mysterious 28 job titles", which in your opinion we seem to have. Then give me your "fact". What is the name of our nutrionist. Who is the top class medical staff that prevents injuries instead of curing them (and even then it is done by people somewhere else, e.g. Dyer was sent to London to overcome his fitness problems and not by full time staff from NUFC). etc. Where are your facts about Allardyce's wages and that he earns more than (at least one of ) Mourinho, Wenger or Ferguson.

 

I want answers as well.

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

He's a good rent-a-quote about how the fans never give a manager time

Not unlike yourself in that regard

 

Well it's true isn't it? Why would Gullit still be so pissed off after all these years that that is what he says every time? The bloke cleary thinks he has been unjustly treated, funnily enough like every single manager since KK.

 

And now irony of ironies, all we hear is 'give Sam time, he'll get it right'. Like fuck he will.

 

 

FFS, we get the message already. Why don't you stop boring us and leave the forum for a year or so, and come back when you no doubt have been proved correct?

 

Ha, it's happened already. Don't dare criticise the Messiah! Ridiculous.

 

Don't be ridiculous. Firstly, to me he is not a messiah, I have reservations about him, but I think he is step forward and I hope he is a significant step forward. Secondly, I am happy to hear arguments to the contrary. Well reasoned ones, that is. But you are repeating the same objections ad nauseum, and they're not even proper objections. It's boring. We know your opinion, you don't have to repeat it in every thread.

 

I wasn't even talking about Sam in here, you;'re the one who leapt to his defence.

 

I haven't repeated a single argument. Each thread is a separate valid point, backed up by the singular fact no-one has any answer to them beyond the juvenile and burn the heretic responses.

 

I still await an answer to: what punishment awaits his outstanding investigations?, Why does Fred think Sam is a top 2 manager? Why do people think Sam will stand up to Fred? What are these mysterious 28 job titles we supposedly don't have? Why will Sam be the first manager at NUFC in a decade not to be criticised whatever happens for the next 2 years? Why is Lee Clark 'jobs for the boys' but Gary Speed is an inspired appointment? How did we repair Dyer and Owen with third rate medical staff? Why does Bramble get another chance when no doubt he was on his way out? On what basis has Fat Sam just jumped into the top 3 paid managers in the league?

 

Most of those "questions" aren't worthy of an answer; they give an incite into how your mind works maybe but have no relevance to the real world.

 

Fwiw my answers would be: from what I have seen Allardyce has nothing to answer in the investigation,

 

why are his transfer now the subject of a third review? Does that sound like no case to answer, or not enough evidence to prosectue?

 

who says he has to be a top 2 manager?,

 

Fat Fred sacked Robson for not improving on 3rd. His next appointment would have been Fat Sam had he said yes

 

general perception he is not a yes man like Roeder,

 

kind of the point. Put it in a real world context rather than a soundbite. Sam at some point says 'no' to Fred. What happens? What is Sam's fallback? It's not like Fred has ever lost a showdown with a manager is it? What is Sam's ultimate threat? To leave? Where to? Where's he gonna get a contract better than this one?

 

I think we urgently need an improved backroom staff covering virtually all areas,

 

bit of a comedown from the claimed abilities though isn't it? Is Sam seriously the only manager capable of hiring competent staff? Skol has already furnished us with the instance that Klinsman, the complete novice, who did that quite easily by the sounds of it. Faird do's though if we need to employ someone extra to help Zogbia learn some fucking respect

 

eh?, who says Gary Speed is even coming?,

 

The point was: Glen promotes Clarke = 'jobs for the boys' Sam installs Speed at Bolton = best appointment ever

 

eh?, who's said anything about Bramble?

 

"Everyone gets a clean slate" - Fat Sam, today

 

is he really the third highest paid manager in the league - I doubt it.

 

I don't.

 

[Papa Lazaru 0]

He's a good rent-a-quote about how the fans never give a manager time

Not unlike yourself in that regard

 

Well it's true isn't it? Why would Gullit still be so pissed off after all these years that that is what he says every time? The bloke cleary thinks he has been unjustly treated, funnily enough like every single manager since KK.

 

And now irony of ironies, all we hear is 'give Sam time, he'll get it right'. Like fuck he will.

 

 

FFS, we get the message already. Why don't you stop boring us and leave the forum for a year or so, and come back when you no doubt have been proved correct?

 

Ha, it's happened already. Don't dare criticise the Messiah! Ridiculous.

 

Don't be ridiculous. Firstly, to me he is not a messiah, I have reservations about him, but I think he is step forward and I hope he is a significant step forward. Secondly, I am happy to hear arguments to the contrary. Well reasoned ones, that is. But you are repeating the same objections ad nauseum, and they're not even proper objections. It's boring. We know your opinion, you don't have to repeat it in every thread.

 

I wasn't even talking about Sam in here, you;'re the one who leapt to his defence.

 

I haven't repeated a single argument. Each thread is a separate valid point, backed up by the singular fact no-one has any answer to them beyond the juvenile and burn the heretic responses.

 

I still await an answer to: what punishment awaits his outstanding investigations?, Why does Fred think Sam is a top 2 manager? Why do people think Sam will stand up to Fred? What are these mysterious 28 job titles we supposedly don't have? Why will Sam be the first manager at NUFC in a decade not to be criticised whatever happens for the next 2 years? Why is Lee Clark 'jobs for the boys' but Gary Speed is an inspired appointment? How did we repair Dyer and Owen with third rate medical staff? Why does Bramble get another chance when no doubt he was on his way out? On what basis has Fat Sam just jumped into the top 3 paid managers in the league?

 

I'd say virtually guarenteed no punishments as with anyone in that investigation as they proved nothing, and unless you have some major evidence of his wrongdoing then you can show us all and actually finally back up one of your arguments, so offer us this amazing evidence you have.

 

I don't remember him saying he's a top 2 manager, though i'm sure you have clear proof he has or of course you wouldn't be arguing about it, but i imagine he thinks he can be a top 2 manager with a club with our resources, until now he has never had those resources, and we'll see if he can do it.

 

They think he'll stand up to him because unlike Roeder he's a big strong character, who gets his own way and runs the club his way from top to bottom as he's shown at Bolton. Unless you have evidence to the contrary that none of what i've jus said is true, do you?

 

Go and check the entire list of back room employess for NUFC, there was a list on a thread here somewhere, and half of them either said vacant, or were filled by Roeder, Terry Mac and Clark. Some of the job titles as Isegrim has said we know we don't have here, even Fred realises that, so eother prove we don't have them or change the fucking record.

 

If any manager is obviously changing the club for the better and making short and long term progress they will be backed, but not immune to criticism, nobody is or ever will eb in football, especially when you're dealign with 50,000+ different peopels opinions. So why the hell do you think anyone on here has said he won't be criticised?

 

We don't have a clue if Speed is coming here, though apparently as with everythign else you seem to know for a fact. Also go and find a load of people here sayign it is inspired, i bet you can't, because there isn't many people who have said that at all.

 

We repaired the likes of Dyer and Owen by sending them away to out of club experts who know what they're doing and who totoally changed everything about Dyers regime. Also peoples main criticism of NUFC isn't our ability to treat injuries, where we probably have some decent people, its thr ability to train people not to pick them up, to be as fit as possible and to be at the very best they can.

 

Bramble will get another chance (if he does) ecause Allardyce will judge every player when he sees them, not on whether you think he should stay or go. Thats how managers work.

 

I wouldn't have paid him this much, but with MAn City about ready to dump Pearce, Fred acted quickly and whilst that was wise, he did what he always does and went for offering a load of money, but he got his man. Though like you i wasnt at the negotiations, so we don't have any idea what Fat Fred started at, maybe this was after alot of arguing, rather than he isntantly offered him stupid money, who knows.

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

He's a good rent-a-quote about how the fans never give a manager time

Not unlike yourself in that regard

 

Well it's true isn't it? Why would Gullit still be so pissed off after all these years that that is what he says every time? The bloke cleary thinks he has been unjustly treated, funnily enough like every single manager since KK.

 

And now irony of ironies, all we hear is 'give Sam time, he'll get it right'. Like fuck he will.

 

 

FFS, we get the message already. Why don't you stop boring us and leave the forum for a year or so, and come back when you no doubt have been proved correct?

 

Ha, it's happened already. Don't dare criticise the Messiah! Ridiculous.

 

Don't be ridiculous. Firstly, to me he is not a messiah, I have reservations about him, but I think he is step forward and I hope he is a significant step forward. Secondly, I am happy to hear arguments to the contrary. Well reasoned ones, that is. But you are repeating the same objections ad nauseum, and they're not even proper objections. It's boring. We know your opinion, you don't have to repeat it in every thread.

 

I wasn't even talking about Sam in here, you;'re the one who leapt to his defence.

 

I haven't repeated a single argument. Each thread is a separate valid point, backed up by the singular fact no-one has any answer to them beyond the juvenile and burn the heretic responses.

 

I still await an answer to: what punishment awaits his outstanding investigations?, Why does Fred think Sam is a top 2 manager? Why do people think Sam will stand up to Fred? What are these mysterious 28 job titles we supposedly don't have? Why will Sam be the first manager at NUFC in a decade not to be criticised whatever happens for the next 2 years? Why is Lee Clark 'jobs for the boys' but Gary Speed is an inspired appointment? How did we repair Dyer and Owen with third rate medical staff? Why does Bramble get another chance when no doubt he was on his way out? On what basis has Fat Sam just jumped into the top 3 paid managers in the league?

You harp on about these "mysterious 28 job titles", which in your opinion we seem to have. Then give me your "fact". What is the name of our nutrionist. Who is the top class medical staff that prevents injuries instead of curing them (and even then it is done by people somewhere else, e.g. Dyer was sent to London to overcome his fitness problems and not by full time staff from NUFC). etc. Where are your facts about Allardyce's wages and that he earns more than (at least one of ) Mourinho, Wenger or Ferguson.

 

I want answers as well.

 

How am I supposed to know the name of our nutritionist or the details of Sam's contract?

 

I am not claiming we have 28 positions, the people who wanted Sam are bigging up his claim of having a staff of 28, without being able to say what they are or whether we have or have not got them.

 

I would imagine the club doctor and physio are more than capable of dispensing medical advice. Are you seriously suggesting we should employ world renowned surgeons and medical experts just to look after a squad of players? Go and research what the people who treated Owen and Dyer do for a living and what they get paid. Dyer's case was a medical mystery, no club staffer would ever have solved it, Fat Sam's or not.

[Renton 18038]

He's a good rent-a-quote about how the fans never give a manager time

Not unlike yourself in that regard

 

Well it's true isn't it? Why would Gullit still be so pissed off after all these years that that is what he says every time? The bloke cleary thinks he has been unjustly treated, funnily enough like every single manager since KK.

 

And now irony of ironies, all we hear is 'give Sam time, he'll get it right'. Like fuck he will.

 

 

FFS, we get the message already. Why don't you stop boring us and leave the forum for a year or so, and come back when you no doubt have been proved correct?

 

Ha, it's happened already. Don't dare criticise the Messiah! Ridiculous.

 

Don't be ridiculous. Firstly, to me he is not a messiah, I have reservations about him, but I think he is step forward and I hope he is a significant step forward. Secondly, I am happy to hear arguments to the contrary. Well reasoned ones, that is. But you are repeating the same objections ad nauseum, and they're not even proper objections. It's boring. We know your opinion, you don't have to repeat it in every thread.

 

I wasn't even talking about Sam in here, you;'re the one who leapt to his defence.

 

I haven't repeated a single argument. Each thread is a separate valid point, backed up by the singular fact no-one has any answer to them beyond the juvenile and burn the heretic responses.

 

I still await an answer to: what punishment awaits his outstanding investigations?, Why does Fred think Sam is a top 2 manager? Why do people think Sam will stand up to Fred? What are these mysterious 28 job titles we supposedly don't have? Why will Sam be the first manager at NUFC in a decade not to be criticised whatever happens for the next 2 years? Why is Lee Clark 'jobs for the boys' but Gary Speed is an inspired appointment? How did we repair Dyer and Owen with third rate medical staff? Why does Bramble get another chance when no doubt he was on his way out? On what basis has Fat Sam just jumped into the top 3 paid managers in the league?

 

Most of those "questions" aren't worthy of an answer; they give an incite into how your mind works maybe but have no relevance to the real world.

 

Fwiw my answers would be: from what I have seen Allardyce has nothing to answer in the investigation,

 

why are his transfer now the subject of a third review? Does that sound like no case to answer, or not enough evidence to prosectue?

 

It doesn't concern me in the least, particularly as it happened at Bolton. I suspect you're only bothered becuase you have made up your mind about the man already.

 

who says he has to be a top 2 manager?,

 

Fat Fred sacked Robson for not improving on 3rd. His next appointment would have been Fat Sam had he said yes

 

I think Robson was sacked for missing out on the CL in consecutive years, not for not finishing second - you're probably the only person in the world that believes that.

 

general perception he is not a yes man like Roeder,

 

kind of the point. Put it in a real world context rather than a soundbite. Sam at some point says 'no' to Fred. What happens? What is Sam's fallback? It's not like Fred has ever lost a showdown with a manager is it? What is Sam's ultimate threat? To leave? Where to? Where's he gonna get a contract better than this one?

 

Absurd. Put it like then you could say no-one can stand up to Shepherd.

 

I think we urgently need an improved backroom staff covering virtually all areas,

 

bit of a comedown from the claimed abilities though isn't it? Is Sam seriously the only manager capable of hiring competent staff? Skol has already furnished us with the instance that Klinsman, the complete novice, who did that quite easily by the sounds of it. Faird do's though if we need to employ someone extra to help Zogbia learn some fucking respect

 

I'm not sure what your point is, as usual. How does having a large, organized backroom staff reflect badly on Allardyce?

 

eh?, who says Gary Speed is even coming?,

 

The point was: Glen promotes Clarke = 'jobs for the boys' Sam installs Speed at Bolton = best appointment ever

 

"Best appointment ever" - your words and no-one elses. Speed is probably percieved as a better appointment as he seems to have a brain cell and due to the relative successes of the two clubs.

 

eh?, who's said anything about Bramble?

 

"Everyone gets a clean slate" - Fat Sam, today

 

Standard phrase for a new manager, it does not mean Bramble will get a new contract and you know it.

 

is he really the third highest paid manager in the league - I doubt it.

 

I don't.

 

No evidence then?

 

 

 

I'll leave it at that because I'm not going to agree with you and this will get difficult to read, imo your objections sound like a man clutching at straws.

[Guest alex]

You know, you could just answer what people write in a post (generally I mean) rather than attribute something one person may have said (eg having a staff of 28 at Bolton being a good thing) to everybody who is vaguely positive about the appointment of Allardyce in every thread. Just a thought like.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

You know, you could just answer what people write in a post (generally I mean) rather than attribute something one person may have said (eg having a staff of 28 at Bolton being a good thing) to everybody who is vaguely positive about the appointment of Allardyce in every thread. Just a thought like.

 

But on the other hand, we don't have Leazes anymore, so really deep down, we needed another person who creates straw men, argues against things nobody said and generally just says the same shite over and over again on ever thread where its mentioned, or even not mentioned!

[Guest alex]

You know, you could just answer what people write in a post (generally I mean) rather than attribute something one person may have said (eg having a staff of 28 at Bolton being a good thing) to everybody who is vaguely positive about the appointment of Allardyce in every thread. Just a thought like.

 

But on the other hand, we don't have Leazes anymore, so really deep down, we needed another person who creates straw men, argues against things nobody said and generally just says the same shite over and over again on ever thread where its mentioned, or even not mentioned!

He's the (anti-Shepherd) ying to Leazes's yang tbh. Maybe we need to get Leazes back to see some real action

[Renton 18038]

You know, you could just answer what people write in a post (generally I mean) rather than attribute something one person may have said (eg having a staff of 28 at Bolton being a good thing) to everybody who is vaguely positive about the appointment of Allardyce in every thread. Just a thought like.

 

But on the other hand, we don't have Leazes anymore, so really deep down, we needed another person who creates straw men, argues against things nobody said and generally just says the same shite over and over again on ever thread where its mentioned, or even not mentioned!

 

When do we start editing his posts?

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

He's a good rent-a-quote about how the fans never give a manager time

Not unlike yourself in that regard

 

Well it's true isn't it? Why would Gullit still be so pissed off after all these years that that is what he says every time? The bloke cleary thinks he has been unjustly treated, funnily enough like every single manager since KK.

 

And now irony of ironies, all we hear is 'give Sam time, he'll get it right'. Like fuck he will.

 

 

FFS, we get the message already. Why don't you stop boring us and leave the forum for a year or so, and come back when you no doubt have been proved correct?

 

Ha, it's happened already. Don't dare criticise the Messiah! Ridiculous.

 

Don't be ridiculous. Firstly, to me he is not a messiah, I have reservations about him, but I think he is step forward and I hope he is a significant step forward. Secondly, I am happy to hear arguments to the contrary. Well reasoned ones, that is. But you are repeating the same objections ad nauseum, and they're not even proper objections. It's boring. We know your opinion, you don't have to repeat it in every thread.

 

I wasn't even talking about Sam in here, you;'re the one who leapt to his defence.

 

I haven't repeated a single argument. Each thread is a separate valid point, backed up by the singular fact no-one has any answer to them beyond the juvenile and burn the heretic responses.

 

I still await an answer to: what punishment awaits his outstanding investigations?, Why does Fred think Sam is a top 2 manager? Why do people think Sam will stand up to Fred? What are these mysterious 28 job titles we supposedly don't have? Why will Sam be the first manager at NUFC in a decade not to be criticised whatever happens for the next 2 years? Why is Lee Clark 'jobs for the boys' but Gary Speed is an inspired appointment? How did we repair Dyer and Owen with third rate medical staff? Why does Bramble get another chance when no doubt he was on his way out? On what basis has Fat Sam just jumped into the top 3 paid managers in the league?

 

I'd say virtually guarenteed no punishments as with anyone in that investigation as they proved nothing, and unless you have some major evidence of his wrongdoing then you can show us all and actually finally back up one of your arguments, so offer us this amazing evidence you have.

 

I'm supposed to have the evidence? How exactyly? Go and look at the last Quest statement about who is and is not still under investigation

 

I don't remember him saying he's a top 2 manager, though i'm sure you have clear proof he has or of course you wouldn't be arguing about it, but i imagine he thinks he can be a top 2 manager with a club with our resources, until now he has never had those resources, and we'll see if he can do it.

 

See above post

 

They think he'll stand up to him because unlike Roeder he's a big strong character, who gets his own way and runs the club his way from top to bottom as he's shown at Bolton. Unless you have evidence to the contrary that none of what i've jus said is true, do you?

 

See above again. All I hear is 'he will stand up to him'. Worth nothing to me, I cite the last time he had an alleged disagreement with a chairman, he walked. I don't see him having anything with which to bargain, and I don't see him winning a shouting match with the fat one. And a managaer should hardly be applauded for being able to run a football club, it's what he's paid for

 

Go and check the entire list of back room employess for NUFC, there was a list on a thread here somewhere, and half of them either said vacant, or were filled by Roeder, Terry Mac and Clark. Some of the job titles as Isegrim has said we know we don't have here, even Fred realises that, so eother prove we don't have them or change the fucking record.

 

We were interviewing nutritionists years ago (remeber the woman who forged her credentials?), why would we now all of a sudden not have one?

 

If any manager is obviously changing the club for the better and making short and long term progress they will be backed, but not immune to criticism, nobody is or ever will eb in football, especially when you're dealign with 50,000+ different peopels opinions. So why the hell do you think anyone on here has said he won't be criticised?

 

The general 'ban the heretic' brigade was a dead giveaway. I wonder if anyone will nail their colours to the mast and give a minimum acceptable finishing position next year.

 

We don't have a clue if Speed is coming here, though apparently as with everythign else you seem to know for a fact. Also go and find a load of people here sayign it is inspired, i bet you can't, because there isn't many people who have said that at all.

 

Wasn't talking about him coming here, more the general hypocrisy of the two situations

 

We repaired the likes of Dyer and Owen by sending them away to out of club experts who know what they're doing and who totoally changed everything about Dyers regime. Also peoples main criticism of NUFC isn't our ability to treat injuries, where we probably have some decent people, its thr ability to train people not to pick them up, to be as fit as possible and to be at the very best they can.

 

Well we've heard all sorts, pitches, staff whatever. I would imagine the playes being a bunch of lazy non-commited wankers would have nothing to do with it. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out most were in fact made up, and will miraculously clear up when Sam appears. No doubt it will be attributed to his experts though.

 

Bramble will get another chance (if he does) ecause Allardyce will judge every player when he sees them, not on whether you think he should stay or go. Thats how managers work.

 

A Martian knows Bramble should be gone.

 

I wouldn't have paid him this much, but with MAn City about ready to dump Pearce, Fred acted quickly and whilst that was wise, he did what he always does and went for offering a load of money, but he got his man. Though like you i wasnt at the negotiations, so we don't have any idea what Fat Fred started at, maybe this was after alot of arguing, rather than he isntantly offered him stupid money, who knows.

 

As they say, proofs in the pudding. Fat Fred doesn't have much credibility in the kitchen

 

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

You know, you could just answer what people write in a post (generally I mean) rather than attribute something one person may have said (eg having a staff of 28 at Bolton being a good thing) to everybody who is vaguely positive about the appointment of Allardyce in every thread. Just a thought like.

 

All hell broke loose when I posted 2 threads in one day, I hardly think pulling up every post containing the link to the article mentioning 28 players and the many subsequent 'well, what I've heard about Sam and his backroom staff' posts would be greeted sensibly, it would be madness

Edited May 15, 2007 by Super_Steve_Howey

[Park Life 71]

My god is this still going on?

 

 

Can't people accept small blessings and be happy for one day?!

 

 

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

He's a good rent-a-quote about how the fans never give a manager time

Not unlike yourself in that regard

 

Well it's true isn't it? Why would Gullit still be so pissed off after all these years that that is what he says every time? The bloke cleary thinks he has been unjustly treated, funnily enough like every single manager since KK.

 

And now irony of ironies, all we hear is 'give Sam time, he'll get it right'. Like fuck he will.

 

 

FFS, we get the message already. Why don't you stop boring us and leave the forum for a year or so, and come back when you no doubt have been proved correct?

 

Ha, it's happened already. Don't dare criticise the Messiah! Ridiculous.

 

Don't be ridiculous. Firstly, to me he is not a messiah, I have reservations about him, but I think he is step forward and I hope he is a significant step forward. Secondly, I am happy to hear arguments to the contrary. Well reasoned ones, that is. But you are repeating the same objections ad nauseum, and they're not even proper objections. It's boring. We know your opinion, you don't have to repeat it in every thread.

 

I wasn't even talking about Sam in here, you;'re the one who leapt to his defence.

 

I haven't repeated a single argument. Each thread is a separate valid point, backed up by the singular fact no-one has any answer to them beyond the juvenile and burn the heretic responses.

 

I still await an answer to: what punishment awaits his outstanding investigations?, Why does Fred think Sam is a top 2 manager? Why do people think Sam will stand up to Fred? What are these mysterious 28 job titles we supposedly don't have? Why will Sam be the first manager at NUFC in a decade not to be criticised whatever happens for the next 2 years? Why is Lee Clark 'jobs for the boys' but Gary Speed is an inspired appointment? How did we repair Dyer and Owen with third rate medical staff? Why does Bramble get another chance when no doubt he was on his way out? On what basis has Fat Sam just jumped into the top 3 paid managers in the league?

 

Most of those "questions" aren't worthy of an answer; they give an incite into how your mind works maybe but have no relevance to the real world.

 

Fwiw my answers would be: from what I have seen Allardyce has nothing to answer in the investigation,

 

why are his transfer now the subject of a third review? Does that sound like no case to answer, or not enough evidence to prosectue?

 

It doesn't concern me in the least, particularly as it happened at Bolton. I suspect you're only bothered becuase you have made up your mind about the man already.

 

who says he has to be a top 2 manager?,

 

Fat Fred sacked Robson for not improving on 3rd. His next appointment would have been Fat Sam had he said yes

 

I think Robson was sacked for missing out on the CL in consecutive years, not for not finishing second - you're probably the only person in the world that believes that.

 

general perception he is not a yes man like Roeder,

 

kind of the point. Put it in a real world context rather than a soundbite. Sam at some point says 'no' to Fred. What happens? What is Sam's fallback? It's not like Fred has ever lost a showdown with a manager is it? What is Sam's ultimate threat? To leave? Where to? Where's he gonna get a contract better than this one?

 

Absurd. Put it like then you could say no-one can stand up to Shepherd.

 

I think we urgently need an improved backroom staff covering virtually all areas,

 

bit of a comedown from the claimed abilities though isn't it? Is Sam seriously the only manager capable of hiring competent staff? Skol has already furnished us with the instance that Klinsman, the complete novice, who did that quite easily by the sounds of it. Faird do's though if we need to employ someone extra to help Zogbia learn some fucking respect

 

I'm not sure what your point is, as usual. How does having a large, organized backroom staff reflect badly on Allardyce?

 

eh?, who says Gary Speed is even coming?,

 

The point was: Glen promotes Clarke = 'jobs for the boys' Sam installs Speed at Bolton = best appointment ever

 

"Best appointment ever" - your words and no-one elses. Speed is probably percieved as a better appointment as he seems to have a brain cell and due to the relative successes of the two clubs.

 

eh?, who's said anything about Bramble?

 

"Everyone gets a clean slate" - Fat Sam, today

 

Standard phrase for a new manager, it does not mean Bramble will get a new contract and you know it.

 

is he really the third highest paid manager in the league - I doubt it.

 

I don't.

 

No evidence then?

 

 

 

I'll leave it at that because I'm not going to agree with you and this will get difficult to read, imo your objections sound like a man clutching at straws.

 

It doesn't concern you that our manager is under investigation? I bet it concerns Kevin Bond, it certainly concerned Fred once.

 

Fred himself talked about failure to progress from third to second.

 

Who has ever stood up to Fred?

 

Fat Sam's staff is used as a point in his favour, over other managers

 

One rule for one manager, different for another.

 

We'll see

 

You have the contract details then? I know that's what was reported earlier.

[Renton 18038]

There's no substance to anything you write SSH.

 

May I ask you a question - what at this stage in Newcastle's history would make you happy? Roeder keeping his job? A different manager coming in? If so who, and please be realistic here, don't just say Klinsmann.

[Isegrim 8941]

He's a good rent-a-quote about how the fans never give a manager time

Not unlike yourself in that regard

 

Well it's true isn't it? Why would Gullit still be so pissed off after all these years that that is what he says every time? The bloke cleary thinks he has been unjustly treated, funnily enough like every single manager since KK.

 

And now irony of ironies, all we hear is 'give Sam time, he'll get it right'. Like fuck he will.

 

 

FFS, we get the message already. Why don't you stop boring us and leave the forum for a year or so, and come back when you no doubt have been proved correct?

 

Ha, it's happened already. Don't dare criticise the Messiah! Ridiculous.

 

Don't be ridiculous. Firstly, to me he is not a messiah, I have reservations about him, but I think he is step forward and I hope he is a significant step forward. Secondly, I am happy to hear arguments to the contrary. Well reasoned ones, that is. But you are repeating the same objections ad nauseum, and they're not even proper objections. It's boring. We know your opinion, you don't have to repeat it in every thread.

 

I wasn't even talking about Sam in here, you;'re the one who leapt to his defence.

 

I haven't repeated a single argument. Each thread is a separate valid point, backed up by the singular fact no-one has any answer to them beyond the juvenile and burn the heretic responses.

 

I still await an answer to: what punishment awaits his outstanding investigations?, Why does Fred think Sam is a top 2 manager? Why do people think Sam will stand up to Fred? What are these mysterious 28 job titles we supposedly don't have? Why will Sam be the first manager at NUFC in a decade not to be criticised whatever happens for the next 2 years? Why is Lee Clark 'jobs for the boys' but Gary Speed is an inspired appointment? How did we repair Dyer and Owen with third rate medical staff? Why does Bramble get another chance when no doubt he was on his way out? On what basis has Fat Sam just jumped into the top 3 paid managers in the league?

You harp on about these "mysterious 28 job titles", which in your opinion we seem to have. Then give me your "fact". What is the name of our nutrionist. Who is the top class medical staff that prevents injuries instead of curing them (and even then it is done by people somewhere else, e.g. Dyer was sent to London to overcome his fitness problems and not by full time staff from NUFC). etc. Where are your facts about Allardyce's wages and that he earns more than (at least one of ) Mourinho, Wenger or Ferguson.

 

I want answers as well.

 

How am I supposed to know the name of our nutritionist or the details of Sam's contract?

 

I am not claiming we have 28 positions, the people who wanted Sam are bigging up his claim of having a staff of 28, without being able to say what they are or whether we have or have not got them.

 

I would imagine the club doctor and physio are more than capable of dispensing medical advice. Are you seriously suggesting we should employ world renowned surgeons and medical experts just to look after a squad of players? Go and research what the people who treated Owen and Dyer do for a living and what they get paid. Dyer's case was a medical mystery, no club staffer would ever have solved it, Fat Sam's or not.

The people bigging up the 28 positions at last have the press reports about it giving detailed informations about Allardyce's staff at Bolton. You on the other hand only resort to: "Name me these people, it's only a myth that Newcastle don't have them." I guess in this case the burden of proof is on you to proof the press reports are untrue and that Newcastle have a similar professional setup - not the other way round. And it also wasn't me or anyone else who brought the names of Dyer and Owen into the discussion and that this would have been done by 3rd rate medical staff. Those players of course were treated by people outside of the club for their injuries/illnesses. But that's not the point, the point is about having full time staff that prevent injuries and not those who cure freak injuries. And you were saying that he is the 3rd higest paid manager now. So again, it's up to you to prove such statements if you want to consider them as "facts".

 

So basically you are only ever trying to make nonsense up who you think would suit your argument, but are basically just totally irrelevant as they are missing the actual points.

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

He's a good rent-a-quote about how the fans never give a manager time

Not unlike yourself in that regard

 

Well it's true isn't it? Why would Gullit still be so pissed off after all these years that that is what he says every time? The bloke cleary thinks he has been unjustly treated, funnily enough like every single manager since KK.

 

And now irony of ironies, all we hear is 'give Sam time, he'll get it right'. Like fuck he will.

 

 

FFS, we get the message already. Why don't you stop boring us and leave the forum for a year or so, and come back when you no doubt have been proved correct?

 

Ha, it's happened already. Don't dare criticise the Messiah! Ridiculous.

 

Don't be ridiculous. Firstly, to me he is not a messiah, I have reservations about him, but I think he is step forward and I hope he is a significant step forward. Secondly, I am happy to hear arguments to the contrary. Well reasoned ones, that is. But you are repeating the same objections ad nauseum, and they're not even proper objections. It's boring. We know your opinion, you don't have to repeat it in every thread.

 

I wasn't even talking about Sam in here, you;'re the one who leapt to his defence.

 

I haven't repeated a single argument. Each thread is a separate valid point, backed up by the singular fact no-one has any answer to them beyond the juvenile and burn the heretic responses.

 

I still await an answer to: what punishment awaits his outstanding investigations?, Why does Fred think Sam is a top 2 manager? Why do people think Sam will stand up to Fred? What are these mysterious 28 job titles we supposedly don't have? Why will Sam be the first manager at NUFC in a decade not to be criticised whatever happens for the next 2 years? Why is Lee Clark 'jobs for the boys' but Gary Speed is an inspired appointment? How did we repair Dyer and Owen with third rate medical staff? Why does Bramble get another chance when no doubt he was on his way out? On what basis has Fat Sam just jumped into the top 3 paid managers in the league?

You harp on about these "mysterious 28 job titles", which in your opinion we seem to have. Then give me your "fact". What is the name of our nutrionist. Who is the top class medical staff that prevents injuries instead of curing them (and even then it is done by people somewhere else, e.g. Dyer was sent to London to overcome his fitness problems and not by full time staff from NUFC). etc. Where are your facts about Allardyce's wages and that he earns more than (at least one of ) Mourinho, Wenger or Ferguson.

 

I want answers as well.

 

How am I supposed to know the name of our nutritionist or the details of Sam's contract?

 

I am not claiming we have 28 positions, the people who wanted Sam are bigging up his claim of having a staff of 28, without being able to say what they are or whether we have or have not got them.

 

I would imagine the club doctor and physio are more than capable of dispensing medical advice. Are you seriously suggesting we should employ world renowned surgeons and medical experts just to look after a squad of players? Go and research what the people who treated Owen and Dyer do for a living and what they get paid. Dyer's case was a medical mystery, no club staffer would ever have solved it, Fat Sam's or not.

The people bigging up the 28 positions at last have the press reports about it giving detailed informations about Allardyce's staff at Bolton. You on the other hand only resort to: "Name me these people, it's only a myth that Newcastle don't have them." I guess in this case the burden of proof is on you to proof the press reports are untrue and that Newcastle have a similar professional setup - not the other way round. And it also wasn't me or anyone else who brought the names of Dyer and Owen into the discussion and that this would have been done by 3rd rate medical staff. Those players of course were treated by people outside of the club for their injuries/illnesses. But that's not the point, the point is about having full time staff that prevent injuries and not those who cure freak injuries. And you were saying that he is the 3rd higest paid manager now. So again, it's up to you to prove such statements if you want to consider them as "facts".

 

So basically you are only ever trying to make nonsense up who you think would suit your argument, but are basically just totally irrelevant as they are missing the actual points.

 

The press articles don't name the 28. I'm saying it's shite, and includes everything from PA's and tea ladys. It bears no relevance to what may or may not need to be done here, so should not be used to big him up for this job, especially with the implication no other manager can do it. The only titles I saw were performance director and something about sports development, both of which could mean anything. And now the Perfromance Director has been upgraded to General Manager, so he can harldy have been that expert in a special job. Having fit players prevents injuries, it's hardly cutting edge outside the box thinking is it? It doesn't need a new job title for crying out loud, it's a fitness coach!

 

As for his wage, go and find the reports, they'll tell you what he was being offered, it was all over the shop last week.

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

There's no substance to anything you write SSH.

 

May I ask you a question - what at this stage in Newcastle's history would make you happy? Roeder keeping his job? A different manager coming in? If so who, and please be realistic here, don't just say Klinsmann.

 

There's the difference, you don't even think it's possible.

[Shearergol 0]

What is it you don't like about Allardyce? Rather than telling us about how the good points aren't valid, just tell us what the bad points are.

 

Do you think he over-achieved at Bolton?

[adios 717]

No I dont, what use is a forum where everyone is a just a clone of everyone else, thats not a discussion thats just a wankfest

 

This concept makes my head hurt.

[Renton 18038]

There's no substance to anything you write SSH.

 

May I ask you a question - what at this stage in Newcastle's history would make you happy? Roeder keeping his job? A different manager coming in? If so who, and please be realistic here, don't just say Klinsmann.

 

There's the difference, you don't even think it's possible.

 

What's possible? We're not the club we were under Robson or Keegan, and we can't simply pick any manager in the world, if that's what you mean. Under the present circumstances, Allardyce is probably a good appointment; you have yet to make a coherent argument against him.

[Renton 18038]

No I dont, what use is a forum where everyone is a just a clone of everyone else, thats not a discussion thats just a wankfest

 

This concept makes my head hurt.

 

Depends on who the clone was. Could be disastrous.

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

What is it you don't like about Allardyce? Rather than telling us about how the good points aren't valid, just tell us what the bad points are.

 

Do you think he over-achieved at Bolton?

 

How is it overachieving? By what standard do you judge, when he's had 8 years to run his own personal fiefdom? I guess if Sammy Lee doesn't get 5th now he'll be slated as absolute shite. What about the bloke at Gretna? Has he overachieved? You achieve the potential in your circumnstances. I'll judge Sam on how he does with a year with these players as compared to every other manager that has been given the same affordance. Alternatively, we could take a back step and actually look to see who is out there who really could improve this club over 5 years, not just take the bloke we know wants the job because he turned it down 3 years ago.

 

Any comparison of NUFC to Bolton is way off base. Different players, different chairman, completely different club, different exectations, hell the only thing in common is the Premiership, nothing else at all is the same.

 

You have to ask yourself would Liverpool/Arsenal ever take a chance with Sam? If not why not? His only top flight record is Bolton. Some people think that's a good thing, I don't.

 

Alternatively, If you want untried at the top, why choose Allardyce? Why not anyone else? Why not a completely unexpected and dynamic appointment, like Wenger to Arsenal, Houllier to Liverpool etc etc.

 

And frankly, most of this is down to Fred, so delusions of anything coming good now and attacking any hint of questioning is also foolish.