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Guest alex
I think it's a complete myth he grafts hard for the team btw.

 

Blatantly backing big red up :lol:

Am I wrong though?

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I think it's a complete myth he grafts hard for the team btw.

 

Blatantly backing big red up :lol:

Am I wrong though?

 

He does as much as any of the other players imo, but like the rest of the team it's wasted because they're all playing out of position and frankly for me don't look like they know what they should be doing, this is what worries me about Allardyce.

 

Organised, defensive, a team with a plan.....fuck off. A team thats scraping through each game as it comes in my eyes.

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I think it's a complete myth he grafts hard for the team btw.

 

Blatantly backing big red up :lol:

Am I wrong though?

 

He does as much as any of the other players imo, but like the rest of the team it's wasted because they're all playing out of position and frankly for me don't look like they know what they should be doing, this is what worries me about Allardyce.

 

Organised, defensive, a team with a plan.....fuck off. A team thats scraping through each game as it comes in my eyes.

 

The players who're being played out of position are the ones who've been our best performers (Martins, Milner, Zoggy), they've been able to do the job required wherever they've played. We should really be blaming the players HAVE looked lost and can't even perform where they're supposed to.

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Guest alex
I think it's a complete myth he grafts hard for the team btw.

 

Blatantly backing big red up :lol:

Am I wrong though?

 

He does as much as any of the other players imo, but like the rest of the team it's wasted because they're all playing out of position and frankly for me don't look like they know what they should be doing, this is what worries me about Allardyce.

 

Organised, defensive, a team with a plan.....fuck off. A team thats scraping through each game as it comes in my eyes.

He just isn't a 'grafter' for me. It just seems to me that a lot of people think he's this lad who always gives 100% and is closing players down etc. Well, they must be watching a different player as he strikes me as lazy - in terms of his movement and when we haven't got possession. It was a response to what Fish said rather than me singling him out for criticism.

Edited by alex

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He's not a grafter but i feel he's a player that can always pop up and score a goal out of nothing and for me there's only Zoggy and Milner in the squad who also offer this threat.

 

Oba's movement has looked better than Owens who just looks plainly disinterested most of the time.

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Guest alex
He's not a grafter but i feel he's a player that can always pop up and score a goal out of nothing and for me there's only Zoggy and Milner in the squad who also offer this threat.

 

Oba's movement has looked better than Owens who just looks plainly disinterested most of the time.

I agree about him looking most likely to score. I don't particularly rate him but I'm not going to have a pop at him as he's as good as we've got just about upfront. I just think for one reason or another people portray him as a hard working player - he isn't. Maybe it's because he says all the right things about loving the club, wanting to do it for the fans etc. That's all I was on about. His movement hasn't looked better than Owen's btw although I agree Owen doesn't look like he's arsed.

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He's not a grafter but i feel he's a player that can always pop up and score a goal out of nothing and for me there's only Zoggy and Milner in the squad who also offer this threat.

 

Oba's movement has looked better than Owens who just looks plainly disinterested most of the time.

I agree about him looking most likely to score. I don't particularly rate him but I'm not going to have a pop at him as he's as good as we've got just about upfront. I just think for one reason or another people portray him as a hard working player - he isn't. Maybe it's because he says all the right things about loving the club, wanting to do it for the fans etc. That's all I was on about. His movement hasn't looked better than Owen's btw although I agree Owen doesn't look like he's arsed.

 

 

Sorry I shouldn't have phrased that 'movement', I mean willingness to make runs and move, the only thing Owen looks interested in moving lately is his hands to his hips, saying that I can't blame him when he's surrounded by a bunch of play breakers like he is, probably got sick of waiting

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Martins isn't a grafter but he does his fair share of work, mainly chasing long balls that's being pumped forward from the back, tbf though we don't need him to be a grafter as that's what the majority of our players are and it shows in our poor, huff and puff performances.

 

He's not as good as some make out but he's not as bad as others like to make out he is, he's a good standard of Premiership striker and the best chance we've got at the club of a goal, the lump it long style of football doesn't suit him but he's still managed to score more goals than the rest of our strikers put together this season.

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Martins isn't a grafter but he does his fair share of work, mainly chasing long balls that's being pumped forward from the back, tbf though we don't need him to be a grafter as that's what the majority of our players are and it shows in our poor, huff and puff performances.

 

He's not as good as some make out but he's not as bad as others like to make out he is, he's a good standard of Premiership striker and the best chance we've got at the club of a goal, the lump it long style of football doesn't suit him but he's still managed to score more goals than the rest of our strikers put together this season.

 

Summed up lovely there Baggio.

 

Gemmil just hates Nigerians after a butt plug he ordered from E-Bay didn't turn up

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I feel the problem lies in the fact that Martins has freakish pace which we do not play to ,however, even when we do manage on the rare occasion to play a ball through the oppositions defence for him to run onto his fundamental lack of awareness and inability to spring even an average offside trap renders the whole attempt at that type of attack pointless.

 

As for Owen his positional sense is tremendous but i'm not suprised he stands with his hands on his hips considering the lack of service - he might as well have a lie down for most of the match.

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I feel the problem lies in the fact that Martins has freakish pace which we do not play to ,however, even when we do manage on the rare occasion to play a ball through the oppositions defence for him to run onto his fundamental lack of awareness and inability to spring even an average offside trap renders the whole attempt at that type of attack pointless.

 

As for Owen his positional sense is tremendous but i'm not surprised he stands with his hands on his hips considering the lack of service - he might as well have a lie down for most of the match.

 

I can't say I agree with that, I think Martins movement when playing on the shoulder of the last man is much better compared to last season, he's scored a few goals (Man City, Spurs) and also got into a few more scoring positions, the main thing though is that by him playing like that it forces opposition defences to sit deeper as they don't want to get caught out by his pace behind them, that gives us more space to play in in the oppositions half which we're not using to our advantage.

 

Owen on the other hand has superior movement but doesn't have the pace to get away from defenders anymore, defenders know his pace has gone so when he's been partnered with Viduka they play a high line knowing that if Owen does get beyond them that they won't have much trouble catching him, a few occasions this season Owen has used his movement to get in behind defenders but his lack of pace means he had to shoot from distance, something that he's shite at.

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I see Gemmill is reading the thread as he continues his crusade. :lol:

 

I agree with Baggio, he's not as good or as bad as people make out - he's a good player but with a lot to improve upon.

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I certainly wouldn't say he is crap but even playing in a system which suits him i think his lack of nouse will be exasperating cos he will always drift offside - in saying that he can be dangerous in the air and can produce goals which as you quite rightly say owen can't - his distance shooting is pathetic - i reckon his kicking muscle has been considerably weakened by the injuries - as poor as his pace

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I certainly wouldn't say he is crap but even playing in a system which suits him i think his lack of nouse will be exasperating cos he will always drift offside - in saying that he can be dangerous in the air and can produce goals which as you quite rightly say owen can't - his distance shooting is pathetic - i reckon his kicking muscle has been considerably weakened by the injuries - as poor as his pace

 

It's like having a dog and barking yourself then, get rid of the little gimp i say

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A lot of the criticism of Oba is over the top and unjustified...

 

He has scored 6 goals made 2 assists in 12 appearances 5 of them as substitute.

 

Torres has scored 6 made 2 assists in 11 appearances

 

Torres is a starter and the Pool plays for him to score goals and he has been successful for them. he misses his fair share of chances yet is considered by many here as world class.

 

Oba however is playing in a team where chances created are at a premium and the team's tactics is not suite to his style of play and he is considered to be shit by many on this board

 

I watch many of the top teams play and I can tell u that Drogba 's 1st touch is often shite..that Rooney , Tevez and Torres often miss sitters. However the teams that they play for create enough chances to so that it does not become an issue...

 

U guys will only miss Oba when he is gone

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Guest alex

Even if the comparisons were valid they fall down when you compare their overall games anyway. Not a dig at Martins, S101 brought them up.

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Surely someone can write some code that when Gemmill types Martins, Matt types Ameobi and gram types Milner, everyone else on the forum just automatically ignores the posts?

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martins is an enigma to me. he has excellent speed over the ground, a very hard shot with either foot, and a decent (if not great) heading technique. he takes a lot of the more difficult chances in front of goal, but for some reason doesn't put the easier ones away.

 

his basic technique from what i have seen is only ok however. also his movement is erm how do i say, erratic. he often plays as if he has indecision clouding his judgement in actually pretty much any of his games i've seen, kind of like a player that has been allowed to play using the talents he has without actually receiving training on his weaknesses...

 

the lad currently rightly or wrongly is our most dangerous player upfront because unlike owen and viduka, he can be bothered.

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martins is an enigma to me. he has excellent speed over the ground, a very hard shot with either foot, and a decent (if not great) heading technique. he takes a lot of the more difficult chances in front of goal, but for some reason doesn't put the easier ones away.

 

his basic technique from what i have seen is only ok however. also his movement is erm how do i say, erratic. he often plays as if he has indecision clouding his judgement in actually pretty much any of his games i've seen, kind of like a player that has been allowed to play using the talents he has without actually receiving training on his weaknesses...

 

the lad currently rightly or wrongly is our most dangerous player upfront because unlike owen and viduka, he can be bothered.

 

Yakubu is allround the better player, but in a strange way Martins (cause he is a bit mad with the ball) is more dangerous and unpredictable. I must say referring to an earlier post I haven't been that impressed with Torres (in particular his finishing). Drogba on the other hand is everything a PL striker needs to be.

 

The main things conspiring against Martins (apart from the legendary first touch) is the way we play and the way his co-clowns play around him. Balls over the top (high or bouncy ones) are no good and yet we don't have a creative player who can hit a good pass on the ground into the channels or into positive space (Emre very very rarely seems something) - areas where Martins could thrive.

 

His starting positions aren't great either as he hangs around the center too much instead of coming wide and giving himself space to run into, he doesn't really give the the 2nd phase player looking up for a pass options (Butt or Geremi aren't really ideal for such a pass anyway). Butt and G are thinking only about getting rid of the ball before they fall over it or make some other gaff. We have no thinking players in the whole team. Not a one...None. This is the main reason we have a lot of hit and hope and haphazard sequences of play.

 

The times when the ball is flitered out to the wing (Milner mainly) Martins main weapon his pace is disarmed as the ball going out and some Milner dithering later coming in from the wing is good for heading for anyone really (sometimes Viduka if he is playing).

 

None of our strikers have a proper all-round game. They are good at one or two things only. These aren't the droids we need for a 433.

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Surely someone can write some code that when Gemmill types Martins, Matt types Ameobi and gram types Milner, everyone else on the forum just automatically ignores the posts?

 

Or you could ignore them all by yourself. It's what I do every time you spout off about someone that retired before you were born.

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The anti-Martins crusade is hilarious. Fact is, the lad needs quite a lot of coaching on his positioning- but then how will improve playing as a pseudo-winger? He's looked utterly useless in that position.

 

Controversial it may be, but I always thought that quick players are best played on the shoulder of the last defender. This is where Martins looks useful- he might miss more than he scores (Bellamy did too) but the fact he's quick is enough to put off defenders and make them drop back or double up. We should use this space but rarely do. Liverpool put three men round Martins and waited for him to run into him as there wasn't another black and white shirt within twenty yards.

 

He's got bits of his game but needs a lot of work to bring them together. To suggest he's simply a sack of shite is bollocks. Especially when we've got the likes of Alan Smith headlesschickening their way round the park.

Edited by Matt

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