Happy Face 29 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 (edited) I've been as bitter at the owner(s) as anyone over the last few days, but I think that's been a knee-jerk reaction. It's been like when your dad walks out on your mam and you blame her for it. What she's done to drive him away? He's the one that played all the best games, kept you entertained and was stronger than your mates dad. She's just a boring old witch that does the cooking and cleaning and sends you to bed early. She's all about discipline and he's all about fun. I love Keegan, but is no-one angry at HIM? How deluded did we have to be to convince ourselves he wouldn't do what he ALWAYS does? EVERYBODY told us so. This club has now gone through 5 managers in 4 years, and each one (before Keegan) was given carte blanche to spend what they wanted on who they wanted. It was an expensive system that brought no success and year upon year knocked us back to square one, as managers insisted they needed to undo the previous managers failures and start again with a clean cheque book. Freddy Shepherd didn't learn from it, he was doomed to repeat the mistakes of his past over and over, the new boys however were bitten once by Allardyce and they aren't going to let that happen again no matter how many dole scum turn up to drink Lambrusco outside the ticket office. They've set in place a long term vision to ensure we secure the best young talent from around the globe, irrespective of the man in charge. Clearly the manager does have input otherwise Keegan wouldn't have been here for 8 months, but it's a give and take process. Even if he is having players forced upon him, he can let them rot in the reserves if he doesn't like them, can't he? Keegan was only commited to the club for two and a half more years. Should the entire structure of the club, agreed by him, have been torn down to suit his short term demands, given that it was a structure he'd agreed to and worked within happily so far. Keegan is an intelligent man, and brilliant manager for this club, but has Mr Newcastle been to watch a game at St James in his whole life if he wasn't being paid? He's a man that understands the Geordie passion and has used it to his full advantage in the past, he's a man who's banked on it saving his skin again this time, but he's come up against more strong willed, ruthless businessmen who will not be dictated to by their employee if it jeopardises the long term success of their business model. Now we are left with our lone parent on the lookout for a new boyfriend we can live with. We'll throw our toys out of the pram when he arrives, and make life difficult for all concerned. When he get's hoyed out we'll be pleased that we were right all along, even though we're only dragging out the hurt for all concerned, and one day we'll grow up and hope for the best for our mam, and accept another good man to take our dad's place. Right, that's the end of my analogies, tin hat on. Edited September 5, 2008 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The structure isn't the problem, it's the personnel. And by that I mean Wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted September 5, 2008 Author Share Posted September 5, 2008 The structure isn't the problem, it's the personnel. And by that I mean Wise. Her other bloke? The bastard. Sorry, I said the analogies were done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake 0 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 My take on it is this If Keegan took the job on after being told exactly that this how the system was going to operate then he's at fault for going However if he's been lied to then he's well within his rights Stating the obvious I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted September 5, 2008 Author Share Posted September 5, 2008 My take on it is this If Keegan took the job on after being told exactly that this how the system was going to operate then he's at fault for going However if he's been lied to then he's well within his rights Stating the obvious I know I think Alex is right, everyone was fully aware of the system, there's just been a clash of personalities between the prime movers in that system. Rather than work through the issues for the good of the club, Keegan has banked on winning the popularity contest (a natural assumption when it's Dennis fucking Wise, Ian Huntley would have a chance) and flounced out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3350 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Everybody is blaming Wise but has he done anything other than what he was brought in to do. And I still state that if KK was to go for backing a player i am pissed off it was that scumbag Barton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Wise and Keegan hate each other apparently. Nice move Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake 0 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The structure isn't the problem, it's the personnel. And by that I mean Wise. You reckon Keegan was okish with Wise's role at first but Wise abused his position? Sounds plausible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The structure isn't the problem, it's the personnel. And by that I mean Wise. You reckon Keegan was okish with Wise's role at first but Wise abused his position? Sounds plausible No. He was happy with someone in that role but not Wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The structure isn't the problem, it's the personnel. And by that I mean Wise. You reckon Keegan was okish with Wise's role at first but Wise abused his position? Sounds plausible No. He was happy with someone in that role but not Wise. There is quite a wide consensus on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake 0 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The structure isn't the problem, it's the personnel. And by that I mean Wise. You reckon Keegan was okish with Wise's role at first but Wise abused his position? Sounds plausible No. He was happy with someone in that role but not Wise. Looks like Poyet for manager then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The structure isn't the problem, it's the personnel. And by that I mean Wise. You reckon Keegan was okish with Wise's role at first but Wise abused his position? Sounds plausible No. He was happy with someone in that role but not Wise. There is quite a wide consensus on this. The stupid thing is it can only work if there's a good relationship between both the parties. Keegan knew nothing about the Wise appointment until it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The structure isn't the problem, it's the personnel. And by that I mean Wise. You reckon Keegan was okish with Wise's role at first but Wise abused his position? Sounds plausible No. He was happy with someone in that role but not Wise. Looks like Poyet for manager then Why appoint KK in the first place? Cynical marketing is my guess. Quite pleased that backfired in a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stevie Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Non no no no niet nein nej and fuckin nar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMoog 0 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 I'm sure Wise's original job was supposed to be to bring in players for the future, youth team, etc. I suspect he's grabbed more power over overall transfers as soon as Mort was out the door and that's part of it. Even if he hasn't and was always supposed to be out getting first team players surely it'd be to work with Keegan's list, I think promises were made on players coming in and Wise has ignored them - if Keegan and Wise didn't get on with each other then that'd just make matters even worse. At the end of the day Ashley's the one who's put this structure in place, if it wasn't working then he should have fixed it and keeping hold of his best asset - Keegan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaser 1088 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Something clearly happened on Monday for Keegan to walk out at such a crucial point in the season. He's obviously tried to work with the regime or else he would have been off as soon as they were all appointed. Theres obviously been pressure put on somewhere and its triggered him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donaldstott 0 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Good work on the analogy front there HF. I was thinking much the same but my malaise stopped me writing anything about it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 48 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 (edited) I think you are right Alex. My view now is that KK was brought in purely to get the fans on board. As I understand it, KK was brought it but he wasnt made aware of the structure until afterwards. All the time KK coming on TV saying he knew Wise was coming, he knew what his role would be, he knew Milner had to go for such a good offer etc. All bollocks. That was KK saying the party line and saving face. Is KK to blame? Not in my eyes. If Ashley knew what the deal would be when KK joined, why didnt they tell him? Not only that, why did MA come out and public say all signings were down to KK. I'd rather have KK being honesty and leaving for his own integrity and beliefs than the pure lies that are now apparent from MA. Why did MA feel the need to lie in public about his role? Why? because he knew it wouldnt sit well and he would be criticised. All this bollocks about brining in KK, sitting with the fans, probably even being seen necking a pint, I reckon is no more than a ploy to get him his one of the lads images who we all like. Well you know what? Fuck that. Ive fell for it once and paid out my three years. Like the boy who cried wolf I dont see how I can trust MA again. Its with MA the blame lies for this mess. Whether badly advised or badly judged, its with him the buck stops. Like many, in a way Im glad KK had the balls to once again stand up and say "this is wrong". Edited September 5, 2008 by JawD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted September 5, 2008 Author Share Posted September 5, 2008 I'm sure Wise's original job was supposed to be to bring in players for the future, youth team, etc. I suspect he's grabbed more power over overall transfers as soon as Mort was out the door and that's part of it. Even if he hasn't and was always supposed to be out getting first team players surely it'd be to work with Keegan's list, I think promises were made on players coming in and Wise has ignored them - if Keegan and Wise didn't get on with each other then that'd just make matters even worse. At the end of the day Ashley's the one who's put this structure in place, if it wasn't working then he should have fixed it and keeping hold of his best asset - Keegan. The structure is working though. The people who brought in the new players at the club are still at the club. rather than a managerial change leaving the club in disarray from top to bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Ashley or Llambias or whoever has made a massive fucking cock up out of the whole situation by allowing it to happen. Whats absolutely nailed on is that Keegan leaked the news of him leaving on tuesday morning and was angling to get out of the club in a way that suits him. Blame on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden McGroin 5180 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 If anyone decides to fucking speak up then we might have a better idea. The lack of communication is scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9045 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Supporting Wise over Keegan is a misjudgement of phenomenal proportions. Sacking of the little scumbag would likely have solved the problem. It's even more stupid as it seems inevitable anyway considering the increased public hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake 0 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 If anyone decides to fucking speak up then we might have a better idea. The lack of communication is scary. I'm not sure there's anything the club could say to change things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 That said, I'm pretty disgusted with the official statements coming out of the club since this first blew up and after Keegan officially left. Basically insulting our intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinofbeans 91 Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 In my humble opinion (its echoed by a lot of you guys) the facts to me look like: 1). Keegan was brought in as a figurehead, on the whim of Ashley listening to supporters. 2). Keegan has advised Ashley and wises team on what he wants, clearly Ashley’s plan was for us to invest in the medium to long term and keegans as per usual was short term to push us up the table as quickly as possible. 3) we got 6 very highly rated youngsters in during the summer, in 3-5 years some will be in the first team (as far as wise and Ashley are concerned). We also got Guthrie (who looks promising) and jonas and colo who both look an improvement on their outgoing counterparts (milner and any of the other centre backs).... as for the 2 transfer window players i know nothing about them except xisco thinks he’s steve foster! 4) the lack of communication was probably down to both Keegan and Wise, clearly Wise and keegan have never got on, and as such the only people to suffer because of their petulance is us the fans Since leaving us in 97 Keegans record in the transfer market has actually been pretty shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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