Leyton Orient 6 - 1 Newcastle United

[Norbert Colon 0]

i dont know why you keep going in to one about the halls and shepherd, i havent even mentioned them.

 

as for your points about previous managers, i'll tell you what. if we, as fans hadnt been so quick to call for the head of allardyce then we would be getting ready for another season in the premiership. keegan has done wonders for this club, but he's walked away too many times. he's a quiter, whether it hurts to say it or not. we've been far too quick to call for the heads of too many managers. as fans of this club, we have got to take some of the blame for this debacle. alan shearer next manager? relegation again. we need a manager like allardyce now. thats sweet irony, isnt it?

 

I wouldn't say the fans of Newcastle Utd have called for their manager's heads any more than the majority of teams in the prem have or would've done in similar situations - the difference being that the press have made a lot out of us due to their fixation with us. I'm not going to talk about Keegan or Allardyce because anyone who thinks Keegan's a quitter or Allardyce is a decent manager doesn't know what they're talking about imo.

 

im not a fan of allardyce or his style of football, but theres no denying that he gets the best out of teams on a very small budget.

 

again, we would still be in the premiership now if we hadnt got shut.

 

Utter bollocks - you listen to talksport and other such shite too much.

Were you there when we were 3-0 down after 15mins against portsmouth - did you see any of the games? i doubt it if that is your opinion - he bottled it with us - petrified of losing - this shite is spouted by people who know fuck all - Fact is if Ashley hadn't fucked over Kev (because he was the manager and had been for half the previous season) we would have been vying for a top ten place so shut the fuck up about Allardyce and the fans dictating the clubs managerial appointments - our relegation had nowt to do with Allardyce apart from the shite players he saddled us with on bumper contracts - muppet

[the gooser 0]

Real mediocrity and worse now awaits, until we find another board who want success like the last one did.

 

Ashley has been an utter disaster for the club but for me it may well have happened anyway.The likes of Villa,Spurs,Everton and even bloody Fulham seem to be riding out the financial crisis in a pretty astute manner, but we've crashed and burned. Don't know if this is because we're just a sympton of all that is wrong in modern top level football or Shepherd really is the bullshitting buffoon he comes across as. I suppose time will tell.

 

non of those clubs have wasted millions upon millions on pretty average players, whom we have then paid astronomical wages to.

 

spurs and villa have both had very good people come in with a lot of money, so have fulham to a point.

 

everton have done things the hard way, but lets be honest they are probably in the best situation. got a manger who knows how the lower leagues works, give him time to build and mould a team of his own, and all on a minimum budget.

 

this is why in another thread i suggested alan irvine would be a great appointment as our next manager.

 

many people will probably disagree though, as they all seem to want instant improvement and success.

[the gooser 0]

i dont know why you keep going in to one about the halls and shepherd, i havent even mentioned them.

 

as for your points about previous managers, i'll tell you what. if we, as fans hadnt been so quick to call for the head of allardyce then we would be getting ready for another season in the premiership. keegan has done wonders for this club, but he's walked away too many times. he's a quiter, whether it hurts to say it or not. we've been far too quick to call for the heads of too many managers. as fans of this club, we have got to take some of the blame for this debacle. alan shearer next manager? relegation again. we need a manager like allardyce now. thats sweet irony, isnt it?

 

I wouldn't say the fans of Newcastle Utd have called for their manager's heads any more than the majority of teams in the prem have or would've done in similar situations - the difference being that the press have made a lot out of us due to their fixation with us. I'm not going to talk about Keegan or Allardyce because anyone who thinks Keegan's a quitter or Allardyce is a decent manager doesn't know what they're talking about imo.

 

im not a fan of allardyce or his style of football, but theres no denying that he gets the best out of teams on a very small budget.

 

again, we would still be in the premiership now if we hadnt got shut.

 

Utter bollocks - you listen to talksport and other such shite too much.

Were you there when we were 3-0 down after 15mins against portsmouth - did you see any of the games? i doubt it if that is your opinion - he bottled it with us - petrified of losing - this shite is spouted by people who know fuck all - Fact is if Ashley hadn't fucked over Kev (because he was the manager and had been for half the previous season) we would have been vying for a top ten place so shut the fuck up about Allardyce and the fans dictating the clubs managerial appointments - our relegation had nowt to do with Allardyce apart from the shite players he saddled us with on bumper contracts - muppet

 

never listened to talk sport in my life

 

 

the truth obviously hurts.

[Norbert Colon 0]

i dont know why you keep going in to one about the halls and shepherd, i havent even mentioned them.

 

as for your points about previous managers, i'll tell you what. if we, as fans hadnt been so quick to call for the head of allardyce then we would be getting ready for another season in the premiership. keegan has done wonders for this club, but he's walked away too many times. he's a quiter, whether it hurts to say it or not. we've been far too quick to call for the heads of too many managers. as fans of this club, we have got to take some of the blame for this debacle. alan shearer next manager? relegation again. we need a manager like allardyce now. thats sweet irony, isnt it?

 

I wouldn't say the fans of Newcastle Utd have called for their manager's heads any more than the majority of teams in the prem have or would've done in similar situations - the difference being that the press have made a lot out of us due to their fixation with us. I'm not going to talk about Keegan or Allardyce because anyone who thinks Keegan's a quitter or Allardyce is a decent manager doesn't know what they're talking about imo.

 

im not a fan of allardyce or his style of football, but theres no denying that he gets the best out of teams on a very small budget.

 

again, we would still be in the premiership now if we hadnt got shut.

 

Utter bollocks - you listen to talksport and other such shite too much.

Were you there when we were 3-0 down after 15mins against portsmouth - did you see any of the games? i doubt it if that is your opinion - he bottled it with us - petrified of losing - this shite is spouted by people who know fuck all - Fact is if Ashley hadn't fucked over Kev (because he was the manager and had been for half the previous season) we would have been vying for a top ten place so shut the fuck up about Allardyce and the fans dictating the clubs managerial appointments - our relegation had nowt to do with Allardyce apart from the shite players he saddled us with on bumper contracts - muppet

 

never listened to talk sport in my life

 

 

the truth obviously hurts.

 

Truth? aye right - your on a wind up - that'll be the truth

[Ayatollah Hermione 12775]

i dont know why you keep going in to one about the halls and shepherd, i havent even mentioned them.

 

as for your points about previous managers, i'll tell you what. if we, as fans hadnt been so quick to call for the head of allardyce then we would be getting ready for another season in the premiership. keegan has done wonders for this club, but he's walked away too many times. he's a quiter, whether it hurts to say it or not. we've been far too quick to call for the heads of too many managers. as fans of this club, we have got to take some of the blame for this debacle. alan shearer next manager? relegation again. we need a manager like allardyce now. thats sweet irony, isnt it?

 

I wouldn't say the fans of Newcastle Utd have called for their manager's heads any more than the majority of teams in the prem have or would've done in similar situations - the difference being that the press have made a lot out of us due to their fixation with us. I'm not going to talk about Keegan or Allardyce because anyone who thinks Keegan's a quitter or Allardyce is a decent manager doesn't know what they're talking about imo.

 

im not a fan of allardyce or his style of football, but theres no denying that he gets the best out of teams on a very small budget.

 

again, we would still be in the premiership now if we hadnt got shut.

 

Utter bollocks - you listen to talksport and other such shite too much.

Were you there when we were 3-0 down after 15mins against portsmouth - did you see any of the games? i doubt it if that is your opinion - he bottled it with us - petrified of losing - this shite is spouted by people who know fuck all - Fact is if Ashley hadn't fucked over Kev (because he was the manager and had been for half the previous season) we would have been vying for a top ten place so shut the fuck up about Allardyce and the fans dictating the clubs managerial appointments - our relegation had nowt to do with Allardyce apart from the shite players he saddled us with on bumper contracts - muppet

 

never listened to talk sport in my life

 

 

the truth obviously hurts.

 

The truth is you're a fucking spacker.

[TheMoog 0]

Jesus fucking christ on a bike, is this chump for real??? Got to be either a WUM, a fuckwit from NO or a mental patient

[ChezGiven 0]

Hang on, the counter to his argument (which is backed by Allardyce at Blackburn) requires a crystal ball to have seen what would have happened had Allardyce stayed.

 

So his opinion about what would have happened is different but he's a cunt for saying it?

 

I was at the Pompey and Liverpool home debacles under Allardyce and even i've got to say, since none of us had crystal balls, that the opinion we would have stayed up has some credibility.

[the gooser 0]

cheers chez

 

it would appear that im just an idiot though.

 

i have given up.

[LeazesMag 0]

Real mediocrity and worse now awaits, until we find another board who want success like the last one did.

 

Ashley has been an utter disaster for the club but for me it may well have happened anyway.The likes of Villa,Spurs,Everton and even bloody Fulham seem to be riding out the financial crisis in a pretty astute manner, but we've crashed and burned. Don't know if this is because we're just a sympton of all that is wrong in modern top level football or Shepherd really is the bullshitting buffoon he comes across as. I suppose time will tell.

 

non of those clubs have wasted millions upon millions on pretty average players, whom we have then paid astronomical wages to.

 

spurs and villa have both had very good people come in with a lot of money, so have fulham to a point.

 

everton have done things the hard way, but lets be honest they are probably in the best situation. got a manger who knows how the lower leagues works, give him time to build and mould a team of his own, and all on a minimum budget.

 

this is why in another thread i suggested alan irvine would be a great appointment as our next manager.

 

many people will probably disagree though, as they all seem to want instant improvement and success.

 

 

Basically mate, you're a fuckin idiot. You blame the board for buying players that don't succeed. You don't understand where the boards remit becomes the responsibility of the manager and players.

 

Everton would have killed for 15 years that we had against their same 15 years of the same period.

 

So would Villa, and so would Spurs.

 

and none of these clubs have yet, despite your gushing comments about how successful they are, have matched what we did under both Keegan and Robson with the Halls and Shepherd running the club. All of these 3 clubs qualified for europe less than us and were generally regarded as being behind us in the "big club" stakes. Do you think Steve McLaren and Joe Royle are better managers than Kevin Keegan and Bobby Robson just because they won the League Cup and the FA Cup, but followed it up with shite ? See your previous comment about "luck cup runs"

 

Alan Irvine ? To quote the previous comments, what trophies has he won ? Dalglish had a better record than Alex Ferguson when we appointed him. Gullit had won a trophy and left his team in the top 3 of the premiership and the quarter final of the European Cup.

 

Toss the fact that we were the 5th top team in the country over a period of 15 years away, and you think the people behind it were tossers, and it totally shows up there is only one person here talking complete bollocks.

 

 

 

I've had this discussion for the last few years with bairns and wankers on NO, and got banned in the end for it. I know I won't get banned on here for saying the same thing, but I do know that you are spouting complete and utter shite.

 

Sorry like, but its true.

Edited July 26, 2009 by LeazesMag

[Norbert Colon 0]

cheers chez

 

it would appear that im just an idiot though.

 

i have given up.

 

Hold on a fuck minute - It is a completely irrelevant argument which is the whole point - saying we wouldn't have gone down if we hadn't sacked allardyce is the same as saying we wouldn't have gone down if we hadn't of sacked Glen - pointless cos he had nowt to do with it - Allardyce was shite but it didn't matter anyway cos Kevin was the manager

[Andrew Flintoff 0]

It's just as easy to argue that we would've been relegated a year earlier if Allardyce had stayed in charge...

[Guest alex]

Without re-visiting the argument about whether we'd have gone down / where we'd be now under him, the point about blaming fans who were calling for Allardyce's head is way out of line imo. You'll always get some fans calling for the head of a manager at one time or another - I can even remember Man Utd fans calling for Ferguson to be sacked when. You could also turn around and point to the decidedly average performance away to Stoke in the cup (Allardyce's last game iirc) where we had about 5,000 down there singing Allardyce's name. Hardly the fans getting him the bullet. And the 'You don't know what you're doing' chant at the home game (Liverpool was it?) was blown out of all proportion. Chelsea fans sang it to Grant about a week later and the press chose to ignore it. Anyway, it's the actions of the owner that carry the responsibility for Allardyce going when he did and all of the stuff that has happened since then too. Blaming the fans is the type of shit you hear on Talksport. As for needing a manager like Allardyce, it's irrelevant unless the owner changes because of the conditions any manager would have to work under at present (and I mean with the current owner here, not just working under the supposed 'sale imminent' uncertainty).

[trophyshy 6439]

Ashley's first mistake, and woeful it was too, was to announce that Allardyce wouldn't have been his choice of manager but he would see how he got on. This obviously pissed BSA off who then knew he was likely to get his contract paid off sooner or later. ££££££

 

If BMA had backed BSA from the off things may have been different, but Ashley would undoubtedly have dropped a cacophony of catastrophic clangers regardless. All this mess is Ashley, not the fans, not Allardyce, not Keegan. Ashley.

Edited July 27, 2009 by trophyshy

[Guest alex]

Ashley's first mistake and woeful it was too, was to announce that Allardyce wouldn't have been his choice of manager but he would see how he got on. This obviously pissed BSA off who then knew he was likely to get his contract paid off sooner or later. ££££££

 

If BMA had backed BSA from off things may have been different, but Ashley would undoubtedly have dropped a cacophony of catastrophic clangers regardless. All this mess is Ashley, not the fans, not Allardyce, not Keegan. Ashley.

Trouble is he'd still be a liar. He didn't back Allardyce particularly in terms of spending and Allardyce hinted that Cacapa and Rozenhal and so on were players he got because they were the quality he could afford rather than what he was really after. Could be bollocks from the bloke after his signings didn't work out but it could well be true considering what's happened since. If Ashley had been honest from the off and made it clear money was tight perhaps things might have been different but it's unlikely Keegan (who was obviously also lied to about fund imo) would have come under those circumstances anyway. Sorry, if that's a bit rambling but what I'm getting it is that I can't imagine one single thing that would have made that much difference in the long run because of the lying / incompetent owner. I think he thought he could make a quick buck by pretending he had big plans for the club.

[trophyshy 6439]

That's what I'm saying, it was all destined to go to shit no matter what because the owner himself is a turd. The other players are all bit parts.

 

I don't know about your last point Alex, maybe. I think he had a load of cash and wanted to show off a bit and have some fun. Once he uncovered the debts he didn't know he had bought he perhaps decided to not throw much money at the club.

 

If I can be objective, it is going to be interesting to see how it all ends. It's looking like he is going to make himself keep it rather than take a massive loss. Fuck knows where that will go.

 

Subjectively, I'm just gutted at the mess we are in and our ongoing misfortune.

[Guest alex]

That's what I'm saying, it was all destined to go to shit no matter what because the owner himself is a turd. The other players are all bit parts.

 

I don't know about your last point Alex, maybe. I think he had a load of cash and wanted to show off a bit and have some fun. Once he uncovered the debts he didn't know he had bought he perhaps decided to not throw much money at the club.

 

If I can be objective, it is going to be interesting to see how it all ends. It's looking like he is going to make himself keep it rather than take a massive loss. Fuck knows where that will go.

 

Subjectively, I'm just gutted at the mess we are in and our ongoing misfortune.

I think it's possible he wanted to spend a bit and didn't appreciate what he was getting into (even that would be entirely his fault though when you think about it) then lost a lot of money from other business interests etc. struggling. However, I tend to think he never really wanted to spend. Funny how there was always an excuse - i.e. Allardyce not his own man, the debts needing to be paid off (which they didn't at all, look at some of the debt at other clubs) and KK was obviously pissed off about not getting Modric long before the 'global credit crunch'. That's just the feeling I get about the bloke.

[Park Life 70]

That's what I'm saying, it was all destined to go to shit no matter what because the owner himself is a turd. The other players are all bit parts.

 

I don't know about your last point Alex, maybe. I think he had a load of cash and wanted to show off a bit and have some fun. Once he uncovered the debts he didn't know he had bought he perhaps decided to not throw much money at the club.

 

If I can be objective, it is going to be interesting to see how it all ends. It's looking like he is going to make himself keep it rather than take a massive loss. Fuck knows where that will go.

 

Subjectively, I'm just gutted at the mess we are in and our ongoing misfortune.

I think it's possible he wanted to spend a bit and didn't appreciate what he was getting into (even that would be entirely his fault though when you think about it) then lost a lot of money from other business interests etc. struggling. However, I tend to think he never really wanted to spend. Funny how there was always an excuse - i.e. Allardyce not his own man, the debts needing to be paid off (which they didn't at all, look at some of the debt at other clubs) and KK was obviously pissed off about not getting Modric long before the 'global credit crunch'. That's just the feeling I get about the bloke.

 

He had to pay off the 42m, but as Chez says and as I also believe he should have thrown 20-30m net at the squad instead of paying off (moving) the debt.

[Guest alex]

That's what I'm saying, it was all destined to go to shit no matter what because the owner himself is a turd. The other players are all bit parts.

 

I don't know about your last point Alex, maybe. I think he had a load of cash and wanted to show off a bit and have some fun. Once he uncovered the debts he didn't know he had bought he perhaps decided to not throw much money at the club.

 

If I can be objective, it is going to be interesting to see how it all ends. It's looking like he is going to make himself keep it rather than take a massive loss. Fuck knows where that will go.

 

Subjectively, I'm just gutted at the mess we are in and our ongoing misfortune.

I think it's possible he wanted to spend a bit and didn't appreciate what he was getting into (even that would be entirely his fault though when you think about it) then lost a lot of money from other business interests etc. struggling. However, I tend to think he never really wanted to spend. Funny how there was always an excuse - i.e. Allardyce not his own man, the debts needing to be paid off (which they didn't at all, look at some of the debt at other clubs) and KK was obviously pissed off about not getting Modric long before the 'global credit crunch'. That's just the feeling I get about the bloke.

 

He had to pay off the 42m, but as Chez says and as I also believe he should have thrown 20-30m net at the squad instead of paying off (moving) the debt.

Aye, that was a condition of the sale (although couldn't that have been negotiated too?) It had to be paid to the Halls didn't it? They nearly took his fucking hand off when he offered to buy the club so I think there might have been some room for manoeuvre there. Even if there wasn't there was no need to pour all that money into paying the other debts off in one fell swoop. Especially if it then meant there was no cash to improve the first team squad.

[ChezGiven 0]

42m of debt had a clause, the rest didnt. He therefore unnecessarily tied his capital up 'moving' debt (apprarently) to save on interest payments.

[Guest alex]

42m of debt had a clause, the rest didnt. He therefore unnecessarily tied his capital up 'moving' debt (apprarently) to save on interest payments.

I know all that but the clause related to the stadium (not the land it stands on) belonging to the Halls anyway didn't it? I wouldn't know if it was legally possible or not tbh, but I'd be quite surprised if that couldn't have been negotiated too. Either way though, no need to use up all that other money in paying off the other debts straight away. Just another blunder amongst dozens of others I suppose.

[trophyshy 6439]

Mike Ashley's Blunder Bus^TM

[Park Life 70]

That's what I'm saying, it was all destined to go to shit no matter what because the owner himself is a turd. The other players are all bit parts.

 

I don't know about your last point Alex, maybe. I think he had a load of cash and wanted to show off a bit and have some fun. Once he uncovered the debts he didn't know he had bought he perhaps decided to not throw much money at the club.

 

If I can be objective, it is going to be interesting to see how it all ends. It's looking like he is going to make himself keep it rather than take a massive loss. Fuck knows where that will go.

 

Subjectively, I'm just gutted at the mess we are in and our ongoing misfortune.

I think it's possible he wanted to spend a bit and didn't appreciate what he was getting into (even that would be entirely his fault though when you think about it) then lost a lot of money from other business interests etc. struggling. However, I tend to think he never really wanted to spend. Funny how there was always an excuse - i.e. Allardyce not his own man, the debts needing to be paid off (which they didn't at all, look at some of the debt at other clubs) and KK was obviously pissed off about not getting Modric long before the 'global credit crunch'. That's just the feeling I get about the bloke.

 

He had to pay off the 42m, but as Chez says and as I also believe he should have thrown 20-30m net at the squad instead of paying off (moving) the debt.

Aye, that was a condition of the sale (although couldn't that have been negotiated too?) It had to be paid to the Halls didn't it? They nearly took his fucking hand off when he offered to buy the club so I think there might have been some room for manoeuvre there. Even if there wasn't there was no need to pour all that money into paying the other debts off in one fell swoop. Especially if it then meant there was no cash to improve the first team squad.

 

The change of owner triggered the 42m iirc and I don't believe from what I know that that could be deferred. He seems to have had an obsession for getting the club back on a stable footing (as we now know the total debt being carried was probably around 130-140m). Mort at the time remarked that a huge chunk (most of it) MA had paid out of his own pocket - which was technically correct but evasive if we're dealing in truth. What MA actually did was transfer the debt to himself (and is now trying to scrape it back by adding it to the sale price but on longer terms - return to PL has been mooted).

 

The key mistake has been not understanding the leveraging that PL clubs operate under (most of the competing sides carry wild amounts of debt and some have a smaller turnover than us). If I was discussing it with a bank it wouldn't be difficult to set up a covenant to finance earning x3 with any serious bank ie the club can comfortable carry 300m debt with service payment of around 12m a year. That leveraging (money) should have been used to make the club a) certain of PL survival or Have the ability to compete in the top 6-8. Basically it sounds far fetched and radical, but if you really look at clearly the club isn't financing the debt, TV money is. Anyway he is the billionaire not me, so I guess he knows what he's doing.

 

Should have kept KK and given him 30m is my bottom line.

[Guest alex]

Irrespective of the 42m which isn't really the issue here, I agree.

[johnthebrief 0]

Anyway he is the billionaire not me, so I guess he knows what he's doing.

 

A misapprehension shared by too many of us for too long

[Park Life 70]

Anyway he is the billionaire not me, so I guess he knows what he's doing.

 

A misapprehension shared by too many of us for too long

 

It was tongue in cheek.