France gets tough...

[Guest alex]

Howay man NJS, it's not that straightforward. People do it because they have very little other opportunity for employment, to get out of abusive households and loads of other situations. If anyone deserves wrath it's the Government and not the armed forces imo.

 

Yeah I know and I realise that Alex - especially when you consider a lot of recruits come from the NE but I still think theres a large choice element.

 

I don't go as far as calling them "Murderers" or anything like that (though that does apply to the SAS imo and they're usually careerists) but I stand by the lack of full sympathy.

 

Whether you look at the British armed forces or the American or the resistance in the 5 countries being bombed i think you'll generally find that the majority involved in direct combat come from the poorer walks of life back home so choices are limited.

 

I have nothing but sympathy for those men and women.

 

To a point yes - I've always liked the "a gun is metal tube with a working class man at either end" quote but I honestly think that even accepting Alex's point about the dole, that UK/US troops are largely there by choice. I think in the past your argument was certainly more true but in 2010 I think the factor is less - not non-existent which I recognise but certainly less.

They are there by choice but you're talking about people with (in some cases) very limited choices was my point really. I think it's a rather militant and unrealistic view to have zero sympathy for the situation they find themselves in.

[ewerk 26770]

Leazes, I see you've chosen to ignore the examples given of British soldiers murdering civilians.

 

 

are you also a muslim sympathiser ? They are doing a job son, they are not blowing up shopping centres and aeroplanes.

 

Opening fire on unarmed civilians is doing their job is it?

 

That is also what those 3 IRA twats in Gib said years ago too. Good shooting lads.

 

Is that a yes?

 

shoot first lad.

 

Do you disagree

 

If there is a real danger that the suspect is about to cause harm then 'shoot first' is fine by me, in the case of the three people shot dead in Gibraltar I don't think we'll ever know the full truth but what we do know is that the three murdered were not an imminent threat.

 

So, here's a yes or no question for you, do you support the actions taken by the British army on Bloody Sunday.

[LeazesMag 0]

Leazes, I see you've chosen to ignore the examples given of British soldiers murdering civilians.

 

 

are you also a muslim sympathiser ? They are doing a job son, they are not blowing up shopping centres and aeroplanes.

 

Opening fire on unarmed civilians is doing their job is it?

 

That is also what those 3 IRA twats in Gib said years ago too. Good shooting lads.

 

Is that a yes?

 

shoot first lad.

 

Do you disagree

 

If there is a real danger that the suspect is about to cause harm then 'shoot first' is fine by me, in the case of the three people shot dead in Gibraltar I don't think we'll ever know the full truth but what we do know is that the three murdered were not an imminent threat.

 

So, here's a yes or no question for you, do you support the actions taken by the British army on Bloody Sunday.

 

of course not, Bloody Sunday was a mistake and a tragedy. A mistake though. Like other things such as the Hillsborough disaster, sometimes mistakes happen and sometimes with terrible results.

 

However, those 3 cunts in Gib were about to blow up civilians in the square outside the Town Hall. The 3 SAS guys were quite correct to shoot them.

[Happy Face 29]

All these examples and sidetracks take away from the point that Leazes sees British forces killing/torturing as a clean, professional, justified and righteous thing which has been brought on by muslim atrocity.

 

Anyone responding to the invasion of their country and the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians are either evil, motiveless killers without value for human life or disgraceful peaceful protesters who are hurting the feelings of the soldiers that killed their family.

 

I didn't think such people actually existed. It is so illogical as to be alien to me. How can you run bombing campaigns or inavde 5 muslim countries and expect them not respond in some way, either peacefully or violently?

[LeazesMag 0]

All these examples and sidetracks take away from the point that Leazes sees British forces killing/torturing as a clean, professional, justified and righteous thing which has been brought on by muslim atrocity.

 

Anyone responding to the invasion of their country and the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians are either evil, motiveless killers without value for human life or disgraceful peaceful protesters who are hurting the feelings of the soldiers that killed their family.

 

I didn't think such people actually existed . It is so illogical as to be alien to me. How can you run bombing campaigns or inavde 5 muslim countries and expect them not respond in some way, either peacefully or violently?

 

your naivety totally exposed by this.

[Happy Face 29]

All these examples and sidetracks take away from the point that Leazes sees British forces killing/torturing as a clean, professional, justified and righteous thing which has been brought on by muslim atrocity.

 

Anyone responding to the invasion of their country and the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians are either evil, motiveless killers without value for human life or disgraceful peaceful protesters who are hurting the feelings of the soldiers that killed their family.

 

I didn't think such people actually existed . It is so illogical as to be alien to me. How can you run bombing campaigns or inavde 5 muslim countries and expect them not respond in some way, either peacefully or violently?

 

your naivety totally exposed by this.

 

In what way?

[ewerk 26770]

However, those 3 cunts in Gib were about to blow up civilians in the square outside the Town Hall. The 3 SAS guys were quite correct to shoot them.

 

The target was the British army. And I guarantee you that if you were an Irish Catholic then you would have fully supported the attack.

[NJS 3993]

They are there by choice but you're talking about people with (in some cases) very limited choices was my point really. I think it's a rather militant and unrealistic view to have zero sympathy for the situation they find themselves in.

 

Okay I didn't mean to imply zero sympathy - my "rule" as such is to start with a median level of sympathy for any death or tragedy and then adjust that level up or down. For example theres a story today of a Canadian being mauled to death by his "pet" tiger - that's a downward movement for me. Child abuse deaths like Baby P or Madeline McCann (sorry for the assumption) are up movers.

 

What I meant was that for my previous reasons, troops are normally "downers" as well.

[LeazesMag 0]

All these examples and sidetracks take away from the point that Leazes sees British forces killing/torturing as a clean, professional, justified and righteous thing which has been brought on by muslim atrocity.

 

Anyone responding to the invasion of their country and the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians are either evil, motiveless killers without value for human life or disgraceful peaceful protesters who are hurting the feelings of the soldiers that killed their family.

 

I didn't think such people actually existed . It is so illogical as to be alien to me. How can you run bombing campaigns or inavde 5 muslim countries and expect them not respond in some way, either peacefully or violently?

 

your naivety totally exposed by this.

 

In what way?

 

everything. British forces are highly professional and highly trained units. They obey orders which is part of their training and why they are so professional. Many millions of people realise this, but the trouble is that not too many of your younger age group realise it such is the direction this country has taken in recent decades and the brainwashing of left wingers on our kids, which is very very sad to be honest.

 

They exist to protect YOU and the way of life you have and you do not realise how it is being slowly eroded.

[Guest alex]

They are there by choice but you're talking about people with (in some cases) very limited choices was my point really. I think it's a rather militant and unrealistic view to have zero sympathy for the situation they find themselves in.

 

Okay I didn't mean to imply zero sympathy - my "rule" as such is to start with a median level of sympathy for any death or tragedy and then adjust that level up or down. For example theres a story today of a Canadian being mauled to death by his "pet" tiger - that's a downward movement for me. Child abuse deaths like Baby P or Madeline McCann (sorry for the assumption) are up movers.

 

What I meant was that for my previous reasons, troops are normally "downers" as well.

No worries, it's something I don't agree with you about but that's democracy

[LeazesMag 0]

However, those 3 cunts in Gib were about to blow up civilians in the square outside the Town Hall. The 3 SAS guys were quite correct to shoot them.

 

The target was the British army. And I guarantee you that if you were an Irish Catholic then you would have fully supported the attack.

 

 

I know you have religious tendencies. That is your prerogative but I do not.

[NJS 3993]

everything. British forces are highly professional and highly trained units. They obey orders which is part of their training and why they are so professional. Many millions of people realise this, but the trouble is that not too many of your younger age group realise it such is the direction this country has taken in recent decades and the brainwashing of left wingers on our kids, which is very very sad to be honest.

 

They exist to protect YOU and the way of life you have and you do not realise how it is being slowly eroded.

 

What about the proven abuses in Iraq?

 

Do you think that no "accidents" as you described Bloody Sunday have happened elsewhere without any punishment including the current Conflicts?

 

And you use the word "naive" - incredible.

[ewerk 26770]

However, those 3 cunts in Gib were about to blow up civilians in the square outside the Town Hall. The 3 SAS guys were quite correct to shoot them.

 

The target was the British army. And I guarantee you that if you were an Irish Catholic then you would have fully supported the attack.

 

 

I know you have religious tendencies. That is your prerogative but I do not.

 

No, but you're a nationalist who fails to see any grey areas.

[LeazesMag 0]

everything. British forces are highly professional and highly trained units. They obey orders which is part of their training and why they are so professional. Many millions of people realise this, but the trouble is that not too many of your younger age group realise it such is the direction this country has taken in recent decades and the brainwashing of left wingers on our kids, which is very very sad to be honest.

 

They exist to protect YOU and the way of life you have and you do not realise how it is being slowly eroded.

 

What about the proven abuses in Iraq?

 

Do you think that no "accidents" as you described Bloody Sunday have happened elsewhere without any punishment including the current Conflicts?

 

And you use the word "naive" - incredible.

 

 

of course there have been other "accidents". It is naive not to accept it or admit it or say that there will not be more at some time in the future. The point is that our forces exist to protect you, as I said, I think it is very sad you appear not to respect or understand this.

[LeazesMag 0]

However, those 3 cunts in Gib were about to blow up civilians in the square outside the Town Hall. The 3 SAS guys were quite correct to shoot them.

 

The target was the British army. And I guarantee you that if you were an Irish Catholic then you would have fully supported the attack.

 

 

I know you have religious tendencies. That is your prerogative but I do not.

 

No, but you're a nationalist who fails to see any grey areas.

 

explain

[LeazesMag 0]

see what you're missing Davy boy. Why not fuck off back to your board and all those clever accountants and your moderating team and its secret little board

[Happy Face 29]

All these examples and sidetracks take away from the point that Leazes sees British forces killing/torturing as a clean, professional, justified and righteous thing which has been brought on by muslim atrocity.

 

Anyone responding to the invasion of their country and the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians are either evil, motiveless killers without value for human life or disgraceful peaceful protesters who are hurting the feelings of the soldiers that killed their family.

 

I didn't think such people actually existed . It is so illogical as to be alien to me. How can you run bombing campaigns or inavde 5 muslim countries and expect them not respond in some way, either peacefully or violently?

 

your naivety totally exposed by this.

 

In what way?

 

everything. British forces are highly professional and highly trained units. They obey orders which is part of their training and why they are so professional. Many millions of people realise this, but the trouble is that not too many of your younger age group realise it such is the direction this country has taken in recent decades and the brainwashing of left wingers on our kids, which is very very sad to be honest.

 

They exist to protect YOU and the way of life you have and you do not realise how it is being slowly eroded.

 

I am fully aware of all that and would only disagree with youngsters not realising it or that it's being eroded.

 

I respect and am grateful to have the forces. We have a responsibility to repay their deedication by ensuring they only get put in harms way when it is absolutley necessary.

 

Using our forces against unspecified targets in Iraq or Aghanistan is a disgraceful exploitation. Their deployment only exacerbates the problem. If you supported the troops you too would protest the political leadership that has failed them so miserably.

[ewerk 26770]

However, those 3 cunts in Gib were about to blow up civilians in the square outside the Town Hall. The 3 SAS guys were quite correct to shoot them.

 

The target was the British army. And I guarantee you that if you were an Irish Catholic then you would have fully supported the attack.

 

 

I know you have religious tendencies. That is your prerogative but I do not.

 

No, but you're a nationalist who fails to see any grey areas.

 

explain

 

If I have to explain that then you're lack of self-awareness is truly astounding.

[LeazesMag 0]

All these examples and sidetracks take away from the point that Leazes sees British forces killing/torturing as a clean, professional, justified and righteous thing which has been brought on by muslim atrocity.

 

Anyone responding to the invasion of their country and the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians are either evil, motiveless killers without value for human life or disgraceful peaceful protesters who are hurting the feelings of the soldiers that killed their family.

 

I didn't think such people actually existed . It is so illogical as to be alien to me. How can you run bombing campaigns or inavde 5 muslim countries and expect them not respond in some way, either peacefully or violently?

 

your naivety totally exposed by this.

 

In what way?

 

everything. British forces are highly professional and highly trained units. They obey orders which is part of their training and why they are so professional. Many millions of people realise this, but the trouble is that not too many of your younger age group realise it such is the direction this country has taken in recent decades and the brainwashing of left wingers on our kids, which is very very sad to be honest.

 

They exist to protect YOU and the way of life you have and you do not realise how it is being slowly eroded.

 

I am fully aware of all that and would only disagree with youngsters not realising it or that it's being eroded.

 

I respect and am grateful to have the forces. We have a responsibility to repay their deedication by ensuring they only get put in harms way when it is absolutley necessary.

 

Using our forces against unspecified targets in Iraq or Aghanistan is a disgraceful exploitation. Their deployment only exacerbates the problem. If you supported the troops you too would protest the political leadership that has failed them so miserably.

 

I actually agree with some of this. The troops do their best and yes the policital leaders have failed them in terms of support and some decision making ie it is always our troops who end up at the thick end of it and other countries just allow the stupid British to put their boys in the firing line.

 

However, if we - and the Americans - didn't do it. Who would and what sort of state would these countries be in ?

 

Blame the UN, a toothless organisation, and other countries. Blame us for being mugs, but touching on what Alex has just said, they are volunteers and know what they are letting themselves in for. My point is just that we should support them as much as possible and not allow vermin on our streets to demonstrate against them. Back to where we started. If they are opposed to our forces in Afghanistan and they want to do something about it, put a uniform on and fight the fair fight or fuck off and shut up.

[Guest alex]

I am fully aware of all that and would only disagree with youngsters not realising it or that it's being eroded.

 

I respect and am grateful to have the forces. We have a responsibility to repay their deedication by ensuring they only get put in harms way when it is absolutley necessary.

 

Using our forces against unspecified targets in Iraq or Aghanistan is a disgraceful exploitation. Their deployment only exacerbates the problem. If you supported the troops you too would protest the political leadership that has failed them so miserably.

Pretty much my views.

[Park Life 71]

People do realise we're mostly fighting the Iraqi's to bring them "democracy".

[LeazesMag 0]

However, those 3 cunts in Gib were about to blow up civilians in the square outside the Town Hall. The 3 SAS guys were quite correct to shoot them.

 

The target was the British army. And I guarantee you that if you were an Irish Catholic then you would have fully supported the attack.

 

 

I know you have religious tendencies. That is your prerogative but I do not.

 

No, but you're a nationalist who fails to see any grey areas.

 

explain

 

If I have to explain that then you're lack of self-awareness is truly astounding.

 

do you mean I'm black and white

[Guest alex]

People do realise we're mostly fighting the Iraqi's to bring them "democracy".

We've pulled out of Iraq haven't we? I.e. the UK.

[Happy Face 29]

All these examples and sidetracks take away from the point that Leazes sees British forces killing/torturing as a clean, professional, justified and righteous thing which has been brought on by muslim atrocity.

 

Anyone responding to the invasion of their country and the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians are either evil, motiveless killers without value for human life or disgraceful peaceful protesters who are hurting the feelings of the soldiers that killed their family.

 

I didn't think such people actually existed . It is so illogical as to be alien to me. How can you run bombing campaigns or inavde 5 muslim countries and expect them not respond in some way, either peacefully or violently?

 

your naivety totally exposed by this.

 

In what way?

 

everything. British forces are highly professional and highly trained units. They obey orders which is part of their training and why they are so professional. Many millions of people realise this, but the trouble is that not too many of your younger age group realise it such is the direction this country has taken in recent decades and the brainwashing of left wingers on our kids, which is very very sad to be honest.

 

They exist to protect YOU and the way of life you have and you do not realise how it is being slowly eroded.

 

I am fully aware of all that and would only disagree with youngsters not realising it or that it's being eroded.

 

I respect and am grateful to have the forces. We have a responsibility to repay their deedication by ensuring they only get put in harms way when it is absolutley necessary.

 

Using our forces against unspecified targets in Iraq or Aghanistan is a disgraceful exploitation. Their deployment only exacerbates the problem. If you supported the troops you too would protest the political leadership that has failed them so miserably.

 

I actually agree with some of this. The troops do their best and yes the policital leaders have failed them in terms of support and some decision making ie it is always our troops who end up at the thick end of it and other countries just allow the stupid British to put their boys in the firing line.

 

However, if we - and the Americans - didn't do it. Who would and what sort of state would these countries be in ?

 

Blame the UN, a toothless organisation, and other countries. Blame us for being mugs, but touching on what Alex has just said, they are volunteers and know what they are letting themselves in for. My point is just that we should support them as much as possible and not allow vermin on our streets to demonstrate against them. Back to where we started. If they are opposed to our forces in Afghanistan and they want to do something about it, put a uniform on and fight the fair fight or fuck off and shut up.

 

i am opposed to my government putting our forces in Afghanistan, but I don't want to kill British soldiers or innocent civilians. As I have freedom of speech, can't i just voice my opposition?

 

Do you think the occupation/stabilisation of Iraq/Aghanistan is a justified and achievable goal worth sacrificing our people for?

[LeazesMag 0]

All these examples and sidetracks take away from the point that Leazes sees British forces killing/torturing as a clean, professional, justified and righteous thing which has been brought on by muslim atrocity.

 

Anyone responding to the invasion of their country and the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians are either evil, motiveless killers without value for human life or disgraceful peaceful protesters who are hurting the feelings of the soldiers that killed their family.

 

I didn't think such people actually existed . It is so illogical as to be alien to me. How can you run bombing campaigns or inavde 5 muslim countries and expect them not respond in some way, either peacefully or violently?

 

your naivety totally exposed by this.

 

In what way?

 

everything. British forces are highly professional and highly trained units. They obey orders which is part of their training and why they are so professional. Many millions of people realise this, but the trouble is that not too many of your younger age group realise it such is the direction this country has taken in recent decades and the brainwashing of left wingers on our kids, which is very very sad to be honest.

 

They exist to protect YOU and the way of life you have and you do not realise how it is being slowly eroded.

 

I am fully aware of all that and would only disagree with youngsters not realising it or that it's being eroded.

 

I respect and am grateful to have the forces. We have a responsibility to repay their deedication by ensuring they only get put in harms way when it is absolutley necessary.

 

Using our forces against unspecified targets in Iraq or Aghanistan is a disgraceful exploitation. Their deployment only exacerbates the problem. If you supported the troops you too would protest the political leadership that has failed them so miserably.

 

I actually agree with some of this. The troops do their best and yes the policital leaders have failed them in terms of support and some decision making ie it is always our troops who end up at the thick end of it and other countries just allow the stupid British to put their boys in the firing line.

 

However, if we - and the Americans - didn't do it. Who would and what sort of state would these countries be in ?

 

Blame the UN, a toothless organisation, and other countries. Blame us for being mugs, but touching on what Alex has just said, they are volunteers and know what they are letting themselves in for. My point is just that we should support them as much as possible and not allow vermin on our streets to demonstrate against them. Back to where we started. If they are opposed to our forces in Afghanistan and they want to do something about it, put a uniform on and fight the fair fight or fuck off and shut up.

 

i am opposed to my government putting our forces in Afghanistan, but I don't want to kill British soldiers or innocent civilians. As I have freedom of speech, can't i just voice my opposition?

 

Do you think the occupation/stabilisation of Iraq/Aghanistan is a justified and achievable goal worth sacrificing our people for?

 

But aren't these shitbags hurling abuse at the soldiers ?

 

What about their banners and general behaviour ? Is this necessary ? Simple fact is they are actually anti British but living here.

 

The situation in Afghanistan would be better if there was no need for a presence, obviously. What would happen if everybody pulled out ? Sadly the world is a shit place what can you do about it ?