France gets tough...

[Monkeys Fist 39136]

British forces are highly professional and highly trained units. They obey orders which is part of their training and why they are so professional. Many millions of people realise this, but the trouble is that not too many of your younger age group realise it such is the direction this country has taken in recent decades and the brainwashing of left wingers on our kids, which is very very sad to be honest.

 

They exist to protect YOU and the way of life you have and you do not realise how it is being slowly eroded.

 

How is the mindless adherence to an order to be applauded, whereas the ability to think for oneself is 'left-wing brainwashing'?

 

and please.... don't say it's a lack of understanding on my part.

[Park Life 70]

People do realise we're mostly fighting the Iraqi's to bring them "democracy".

We've pulled out of Iraq haven't we? I.e. the UK.

 

Meant Afghanistan.

[LeazesMag 0]

British forces are highly professional and highly trained units. They obey orders which is part of their training and why they are so professional. Many millions of people realise this, but the trouble is that not too many of your younger age group realise it such is the direction this country has taken in recent decades and the brainwashing of left wingers on our kids, which is very very sad to be honest.

 

They exist to protect YOU and the way of life you have and you do not realise how it is being slowly eroded.

 

How is the mindless adherence to an order to be applauded, whereas the ability to think for oneself is 'left-wing brainwashing'?

 

and please.... don't say it's a lack of understanding on my part.

 

 

eh ? its the way the military works, you can't have people arguing about instant life and death decisions in the heat of battle !!

[Guest alex]

People do realise we're mostly fighting the Iraqi's to bring them "democracy".

We've pulled out of Iraq haven't we? I.e. the UK.

 

Meant Afghanistan.

You should work for the CIA. Assuming you don't already

Fucking farce those elections like.

[NJS 3992]

The situation in Afghanistan would be better if there was no need for a presence, obviously. What would happen if everybody pulled out ? Sadly the world is a shit place what can you do about it ?

 

It would go back to being the same third world heroin farm with no effect on anyone it was before the Yanks, Russians and firstly the British fucked it up.

[ewerk 26766]

Simple fact is they are actually anti British but living here.

 

Who is?

[Park Life 70]

The situation in Afghanistan would be better if there was no need for a presence, obviously. What would happen if everybody pulled out ? Sadly the world is a shit place what can you do about it ?

 

It would go back to being the same third world heroin farm with no effect on anyone it was before the Yanks, Russians and firstly the British fucked it up.

 

Training camps were a problem.

[LeazesMag 0]

The situation in Afghanistan would be better if there was no need for a presence, obviously. What would happen if everybody pulled out ? Sadly the world is a shit place what can you do about it ?

 

It would go back to being the same third world heroin farm with no effect on anyone it was before the Yanks, Russians and firstly the British fucked it up.

 

Training camps were a problem.

 

heroin farm is a problem like

[NJS 3992]

Simple fact is they are actually anti British but living here.

 

By a lot of what I would guess are your definitions, I'm Anti-British - I despise the institution of the royal family, the aristocracy, the CofE and the rest of the establishment and I have no respect for the judiciary or the police.

 

Should I move?

 

Does my ancestry/birthright give me the extra right to hold those views that Immigrants don't have?

[NJS 3992]

The situation in Afghanistan would be better if there was no need for a presence, obviously. What would happen if everybody pulled out ? Sadly the world is a shit place what can you do about it ?

 

It would go back to being the same third world heroin farm with no effect on anyone it was before the Yanks, Russians and firstly the British fucked it up.

 

Training camps were a problem.

 

heroin farm is a problem like

 

An infinitely larger effect on more people in the west than Islamic terrorism could ever dream of.

[Monkeys Fist 39136]

British forces are highly professional and highly trained units. They obey orders which is part of their training and why they are so professional. Many millions of people realise this, but the trouble is that not too many of your younger age group realise it such is the direction this country has taken in recent decades and the brainwashing of left wingers on our kids, which is very very sad to be honest.

 

They exist to protect YOU and the way of life you have and you do not realise how it is being slowly eroded.

 

How is the mindless adherence to an order to be applauded, whereas the ability to think for oneself is 'left-wing brainwashing'?

 

and please.... don't say it's a lack of understanding on my part.

 

 

eh ? its the way the military works, you can't have people arguing about instant life and death decisions in the heat of battle !!

Course not-innocent civilians might be saved.

 

I think you missed the point of post entirely.

(Lack of understanding? )

[ewerk 26766]

However, those 3 cunts in Gib were about to blow up civilians in the square outside the Town Hall. The 3 SAS guys were quite correct to shoot them.

 

The target was the British army. And I guarantee you that if you were an Irish Catholic then you would have fully supported the attack.

 

 

< Couldn't careless about any paramilitary getting shot, frankly we'd be a lot better off if they all got locked in a warehouse and blew themselves to bits.

 

 

Things were a lot different in 1988 though.

[LeazesMag 0]

However, those 3 cunts in Gib were about to blow up civilians in the square outside the Town Hall. The 3 SAS guys were quite correct to shoot them.

 

The target was the British army. And I guarantee you that if you were an Irish Catholic then you would have fully supported the attack.

 

 

< Couldn't careless about any paramilitary getting shot, frankly we'd be a lot better off if they all got locked in a warehouse and blew themselves to bits.

 

Comparing the likes of a trained special forces solider to the like of an average Squady is also daft.

 

@troops being in Iraq, yup glad they're there and the place might have a bit more of a chance sorting itself out, all this crap about there not being weapons etc and it being our reason for going is besides the point imo, yes they prob knew Hussain hadn't got anything, but then they got rid of an evil dictator in a country where the normal people couldn't get shot of him themselves.

 

if the better off nations can't help when it's needed what's the point, solider's etc sign up knowing they might well end up in such a situation, if you don't wanna do it pick another career frankly.

 

trouble with the war in Iraq was they didn't finish the job first time round in 1990.

 

As Saddam had used chemical weapons before on his own people too, is it not beyond a possibility that he had stockpiled them again or would to again ? In my view, this was reason enough anyway, but they should have finished the job the first time.

[Guest alex]

As the former Soviet soldier alluded to in the Sunday Times article I mentioned on here the other week, we'd be better off building factories if we really wanted to eradicate the conditions that lead to countries like Afghanistan becoming 'failed states'. We've no genuine interest in a worldwide homogenisation of wealth though. What we're actually doing is as much a waste of time as sending aid to Africa.

[Happy Face 29]

All these examples and sidetracks take away from the point that Leazes sees British forces killing/torturing as a clean, professional, justified and righteous thing which has been brought on by muslim atrocity.

 

Anyone responding to the invasion of their country and the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians are either evil, motiveless killers without value for human life or disgraceful peaceful protesters who are hurting the feelings of the soldiers that killed their family.

 

I didn't think such people actually existed . It is so illogical as to be alien to me. How can you run bombing campaigns or inavde 5 muslim countries and expect them not respond in some way, either peacefully or violently?

 

your naivety totally exposed by this.

 

In what way?

 

everything. British forces are highly professional and highly trained units. They obey orders which is part of their training and why they are so professional. Many millions of people realise this, but the trouble is that not too many of your younger age group realise it such is the direction this country has taken in recent decades and the brainwashing of left wingers on our kids, which is very very sad to be honest.

 

They exist to protect YOU and the way of life you have and you do not realise how it is being slowly eroded.

 

I am fully aware of all that and would only disagree with youngsters not realising it or that it's being eroded.

 

I respect and am grateful to have the forces. We have a responsibility to repay their deedication by ensuring they only get put in harms way when it is absolutley necessary.

 

Using our forces against unspecified targets in Iraq or Aghanistan is a disgraceful exploitation. Their deployment only exacerbates the problem. If you supported the troops you too would protest the political leadership that has failed them so miserably.

 

I actually agree with some of this. The troops do their best and yes the policital leaders have failed them in terms of support and some decision making ie it is always our troops who end up at the thick end of it and other countries just allow the stupid British to put their boys in the firing line.

 

However, if we - and the Americans - didn't do it. Who would and what sort of state would these countries be in ?

 

Blame the UN, a toothless organisation, and other countries. Blame us for being mugs, but touching on what Alex has just said, they are volunteers and know what they are letting themselves in for. My point is just that we should support them as much as possible and not allow vermin on our streets to demonstrate against them. Back to where we started. If they are opposed to our forces in Afghanistan and they want to do something about it, put a uniform on and fight the fair fight or fuck off and shut up.

 

i am opposed to my government putting our forces in Afghanistan, but I don't want to kill British soldiers or innocent civilians. As I have freedom of speech, can't i just voice my opposition?

 

Do you think the occupation/stabilisation of Iraq/Aghanistan is a justified and achievable goal worth sacrificing our people for?

 

But aren't these shitbags hurling abuse at the soldiers ?

 

I don't know. Are they? I'd expect anyone of any religion, colour or sexuality to get a lot of grief if they hurled abuse at soldiers. If it has happened, I'm not sure what that kind of unsavoury behaviour by a few has got to do with restricting the rights of an entire group to protest or to wear a certain item of clothing. If we restrict those basic rights we turn into the oppresive regime we despise.

 

What about their banners and general behaviour ? Is this necessary ? Simple fact is they are actually anti British but living here.

 

Again, I don't know enough about any specific banners. Which banner has offended you? There are many anti-war banners I'd agree with and I'm certainly not anti-British.

 

The situation in Afghanistan would be better if there was no need for a presence, obviously. What would happen if everybody pulled out ? Sadly the world is a shit place what can you do about it ?

 

I'm too young to remeber what happened when we pulled out of Vietnam. But that war was waged for years on the threat of what would happen when we left, yet I am unaware of any lasting negative effects on my way of life (or any Americans).

 

The middle east is different as we have such a pervasive presence and it's not as simple as pulling out of Afghanistan alone. Al Qaeda will keep fighting as long as BP is drilling over there. But by investing in growth in the region rather than bombs, by investing in local producers rather than stealing their natural resources, you'd massively reduce the potential for al qaeda recruitment and we'd be exponentially safer in our planes and high rise buildings.

[Guest alex]

However, those 3 cunts in Gib were about to blow up civilians in the square outside the Town Hall. The 3 SAS guys were quite correct to shoot them.

 

The target was the British army. And I guarantee you that if you were an Irish Catholic then you would have fully supported the attack.

 

 

< Couldn't careless about any paramilitary getting shot, frankly we'd be a lot better off if they all got locked in a warehouse and blew themselves to bits.

 

Comparing the likes of a trained special forces solider to the like of an average Squady is also daft.

 

@troops being in Iraq, yup glad they're there and the place might have a bit more of a chance sorting itself out, all this crap about there not being weapons etc and it being our reason for going is besides the point imo, yes they prob knew Hussain hadn't got anything, but then they got rid of an evil dictator in a country where the normal people couldn't get shot of him themselves.

 

if the better off nations can't help when it's needed what's the point, solider's etc sign up knowing they might well end up in such a situation, if you don't wanna do it pick another career frankly.

 

trouble with the war in Iraq was they didn't finish the job first time round in 1990.

 

As Saddam had used chemical weapons before on his own people too, is it not beyond a possibility that he had stockpiled them again or would to again ? In my view, this was reason enough anyway, but they should have finished the job the first time.

If you take that to mean we should learn from past mistakes we probably wouldn't even attempt to occupy places like Iraq and (in particular) Afghanistan.

[Park Life 70]

As the former Soviet soldier alluded to in the Sunday Times article I mentioned on here the other week, we'd be better off building factories if we really wanted to eradicate the conditions that lead to countries like Afghanistan becoming 'failed states'. We've no genuine interest in a worldwide homogenisation of wealth though. What we're actually doing is as much a waste of time as sending aid to Africa.

 

Having an ongoing presence in Afg is a way of ensuring a future oil pipeline from the Caucases or somehere and as other have mentioned a good base for attacks.surveillance into Iran etc..The funny thing is that the west has continuously changed sides vis a vie Taliban/Northern Alliance/Kabul govt etc..It's basically a tribal/rural economy (heroin etc) and they like it that way. We are never going to win over large sections and gettting out would mean saving soldiers lives.

[LeazesMag 0]

However, those 3 cunts in Gib were about to blow up civilians in the square outside the Town Hall. The 3 SAS guys were quite correct to shoot them.

 

The target was the British army. And I guarantee you that if you were an Irish Catholic then you would have fully supported the attack.

 

 

< Couldn't careless about any paramilitary getting shot, frankly we'd be a lot better off if they all got locked in a warehouse and blew themselves to bits.

 

Comparing the likes of a trained special forces solider to the like of an average Squady is also daft.

 

@troops being in Iraq, yup glad they're there and the place might have a bit more of a chance sorting itself out, all this crap about there not being weapons etc and it being our reason for going is besides the point imo, yes they prob knew Hussain hadn't got anything, but then they got rid of an evil dictator in a country where the normal people couldn't get shot of him themselves.

 

if the better off nations can't help when it's needed what's the point, solider's etc sign up knowing they might well end up in such a situation, if you don't wanna do it pick another career frankly.

 

trouble with the war in Iraq was they didn't finish the job first time round in 1990.

 

As Saddam had used chemical weapons before on his own people too, is it not beyond a possibility that he had stockpiled them again or would to again ? In my view, this was reason enough anyway, but they should have finished the job the first time.

If you take that to mean we should learn from past mistakes we probably wouldn't even attempt to occupy places like Iraq and (in particular) Afghanistan.

 

 

I meant they let Saddam off the hook but I suppose they may have had their reasons ie balance of power in the area or his replacement may have been even more undesirable. I take your point above though. You can't be the worlds policeman but the UN is hopeless and nobody else gives a shit.

[Happy Face 29]

However, those 3 cunts in Gib were about to blow up civilians in the square outside the Town Hall. The 3 SAS guys were quite correct to shoot them.

 

The target was the British army. And I guarantee you that if you were an Irish Catholic then you would have fully supported the attack.

 

 

< Couldn't careless about any paramilitary getting shot, frankly we'd be a lot better off if they all got locked in a warehouse and blew themselves to bits.

 

Comparing the likes of a trained special forces solider to the like of an average Squady is also daft.

 

@troops being in Iraq, yup glad they're there and the place might have a bit more of a chance sorting itself out, all this crap about there not being weapons etc and it being our reason for going is besides the point imo, yes they prob knew Hussain hadn't got anything, but then they got rid of an evil dictator in a country where the normal people couldn't get shot of him themselves.

 

if the better off nations can't help when it's needed what's the point, solider's etc sign up knowing they might well end up in such a situation, if you don't wanna do it pick another career frankly.

 

trouble with the war in Iraq was they didn't finish the job first time round in 1990.

 

As Saddam had used chemical weapons before on his own people too, is it not beyond a possibility that he had stockpiled them again or would to again ? In my view, this was reason enough anyway, but they should have finished the job the first time.

If you take that to mean we should learn from past mistakes we probably wouldn't even attempt to occupy places like Iraq and (in particular) Afghanistan.

 

 

I meant they let Saddam off the hook but I suppose they may have had their reasons ie balance of power in the area or his replacement may have been even more undesirable. I take your point above though. You can't be the worlds policeman but the UN is hopeless and nobody else gives a shit.

 

Nor do we or the US.

 

Sanctions against Iraq killed half a million children over there (more than Hiroshima). The civilians of Iraq do not come into consideration when we decide on foreign policy.

[Park Life 70]

It's naive in the extreme to believe we are invested in some kind of world policeman malarkey. These are key strategical theatres of engagement that involve Govt/multinationals/resources.

[PaddockLad 14861]

It's naive in the extreme to believe we are invested in some kind of world policeman malarkey. These are key strategical theatres of engagement that involve Govt/multinationals/resources.

 

Do you mean like representitives of the Taliban being sat in the offices of Haliburton in 2000 negotiating with Dick Cheney about an oil pipeline to be run across Afghanistan from the oil rich southern Russian republics to the north and failing to reach a deal?

[Park Life 70]

It's naive in the extreme to believe we are invested in some kind of world policeman malarkey. These are key strategical theatres of engagement that involve Govt/multinationals/resources.

 

Do you mean like representitives of the Taliban being sat in the offices of Haliburton in 2000 negotiating with Dick Cheney about an oil pipeline to be run across Afghanistan from the oil rich southern Russian republics to the north and failing to reach a deal?

 

That's the sort of thing.

[Guest alex]

However, those 3 cunts in Gib were about to blow up civilians in the square outside the Town Hall. The 3 SAS guys were quite correct to shoot them.

 

The target was the British army. And I guarantee you that if you were an Irish Catholic then you would have fully supported the attack.

 

 

< Couldn't careless about any paramilitary getting shot, frankly we'd be a lot better off if they all got locked in a warehouse and blew themselves to bits.

 

Comparing the likes of a trained special forces solider to the like of an average Squady is also daft.

 

@troops being in Iraq, yup glad they're there and the place might have a bit more of a chance sorting itself out, all this crap about there not being weapons etc and it being our reason for going is besides the point imo, yes they prob knew Hussain hadn't got anything, but then they got rid of an evil dictator in a country where the normal people couldn't get shot of him themselves.

 

if the better off nations can't help when it's needed what's the point, solider's etc sign up knowing they might well end up in such a situation, if you don't wanna do it pick another career frankly.

 

trouble with the war in Iraq was they didn't finish the job first time round in 1990.

 

As Saddam had used chemical weapons before on his own people too, is it not beyond a possibility that he had stockpiled them again or would to again ? In my view, this was reason enough anyway, but they should have finished the job the first time.

If you take that to mean we should learn from past mistakes we probably wouldn't even attempt to occupy places like Iraq and (in particular) Afghanistan.

 

 

I meant they let Saddam off the hook but I suppose they may have had their reasons ie balance of power in the area or his replacement may have been even more undesirable. I take your point above though. You can't be the worlds policeman but the UN is hopeless and nobody else gives a shit.

Aye, I know what you meant, I was just expanding that in relation to a more general point about successive governments not learning from history. I think at the time though some of the military top brass in the US were pushing for a full-scale invasion of Iraq but really the objective of the war had been achieved and Bush snr. decided enough blood had been shed. Possibly a mistake in hindsight.

[Guest alex]

As the former Soviet soldier alluded to in the Sunday Times article I mentioned on here the other week, we'd be better off building factories if we really wanted to eradicate the conditions that lead to countries like Afghanistan becoming 'failed states'. We've no genuine interest in a worldwide homogenisation of wealth though. What we're actually doing is as much a waste of time as sending aid to Africa.

 

Having an ongoing presence in Afg is a way of ensuring a future oil pipeline from the Caucases or somehere and as other have mentioned a good base for attacks.surveillance into Iran etc..The funny thing is that the west has continuously changed sides vis a vie Taliban/Northern Alliance/Kabul govt etc..It's basically a tribal/rural economy (heroin etc) and they like it that way. We are never going to win over large sections and gettting out would mean saving soldiers lives.

I do remember reading about something along those lines although I thought it was a natural gas pipeline (might have been oil). Supposedly there are huge reserves in landlocked places like Turkmenistan and the countries round there and in theory the most efficient way of getting them out of there would be a pipeline going right through Afghanistan.

[NJS 3992]

I do remember reading about something along those lines although I thought it was a natural gas pipeline (might have been oil). Supposedly there are huge reserves in landlocked places like Turkmenistan and the countries round there and in theory the most efficient way of getting them out of there would be a pipeline going right through Afghanistan.

 

The way I read it was that that was why Karzai was chosen as the puppet - he promised to deliver the gas pipeline.