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I might be getting whooshed here but how does buying young quality players constitute a workable plan for success in anyway? It's what every fucking club out there is trying to do man. You might as well say I think we should try and win some trophies. <_<

Yes but some people still seem to have a problem with it. We had a dressing room full of egos and wages that were way too high for the results we were getting. I know it's easy to have a pop at Ashley but this policy is clearly an improvement on the latter years of the Shepherd era.

 

Arsenal, ManU, Barcelona constantly have good young players coming through who they either keep hold of or sell on for a profit. I don't think we did it enough.

 

As I say, it remains to be seen what happens but I think it's the right approach for where we are and where we'd got to.

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I might be getting whooshed here but how does buying young quality players constitute a workable plan for success in anyway? It's what every fucking club out there is trying to do man. You might as well say I think we should try and win some trophies. <_<

Yes but some people still seem to have a problem with it. We had a dressing room full of egos and wages that were way too high for the results we were getting. I know it's easy to have a pop at Ashley but this policy is clearly an improvement on the latter years of the Shepherd era.

 

Arsenal, ManU, Barcelona constantly have good young players coming through who they either keep hold of or sell on for a profit. I don't think we did it enough.

 

As I say, it remains to be seen what happens but I think it's the right approach for where we are and where we'd got to.

Every high earner at the club was either signed by the current regime or has had a new contract under the current regime though.

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I might be getting whooshed here but how does buying young quality players constitute a workable plan for success in anyway? It's what every fucking club out there is trying to do man. You might as well say I think we should try and win some trophies. <_<

Yes but some people still seem to have a problem with it. We had a dressing room full of egos and wages that were way too high for the results we were getting. I know it's easy to have a pop at Ashley but this policy is clearly an improvement on the latter years of the Shepherd era.

 

Arsenal, ManU, Barcelona constantly have good young players coming through who they either keep hold of or sell on for a profit. I don't think we did it enough.

 

As I say, it remains to be seen what happens but I think it's the right approach for where we are and where we'd got to.

Every high earner at the club was either signed by the current regime or has had a new contract under the current regime though.

I know!

 

I think Ashley's realised it's not the way to do things at this point and I agree. If we can stay up this year and get stabilised then maybe that can change but I hope not to the levels we were at before. When you offer silly money without having the success you attract the wrong types of player IMO.

 

Big wages doesn't guarantee you good players as we've seen. Team spirit and a stable manager are far more important and we haven't had that for a long time.

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I might be getting whooshed here but how does buying young quality players constitute a workable plan for success in anyway? It's what every fucking club out there is trying to do man. You might as well say I think we should try and win some trophies. <_<

Yes but some people still seem to have a problem with it. We had a dressing room full of egos and wages that were way too high for the results we were getting. I know it's easy to have a pop at Ashley but this policy is clearly an improvement on the latter years of the Shepherd era.

 

Arsenal, ManU, Barcelona constantly have good young players coming through who they either keep hold of or sell on for a profit. I don't think we did it enough.

 

As I say, it remains to be seen what happens but I think it's the right approach for where we are and where we'd got to.

 

I have a bad feeling this is about to turn into a Leazes thread

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Only works if you have a good scouting network anyway. It was abysmal (or virtually nonexistent) under the last board and there's not been much improvement since Ashley took over.

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The only policy he has is the player has to be cheap man.

I don't think we're any worse as a side now than we were last year and we haven't spent much. For every Shearer there's a Luque or Boumsong.

 

We were relegated, the wheels came off. We weren't too big to go down. I think like most things it was a chance to take stock, lower expectations of a quick fix and start rebuilding.

 

The Keegan and Robson eras weren't instant fixes, they grew and gained momentum. As a club we were acting like any big organisation that's lost its way. Too many divisions, no proper leadership and too much waste.

 

We were humbled and took it on the chin. Hughton and his players have momentum again. I don't know if you went last night but from the TV footage the ground looked like it was rocking again. It's about energy. I remember the feeling of anti climax after we finished 5th. Once that mindset is there you either need a huge amount of luck, money or both. We blew a lot of money but we didn't get any luck and people were waiting for us to fail.

 

 

Now it's someone elses turn, maybe Liverpool and we can hopefully get on with building a decent side with stable management and move on up the league.

 

Of course it might not happen like that but IMO it could. I've said it before, there are too many here who seem to be almost wishing for it not to happen and I really don't see what the benefit is.

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The only policy he has is the player has to be cheap man.

I don't think we're any worse as a side now than we were last year and we haven't spent much. For every Shearer there's a Luque or Boumsong.

 

We were relegated, the wheels came off. We weren't too big to go down. I think like most things it was a chance to take stock, lower expectations of a quick fix and start rebuilding.

 

The Keegan and Robson eras weren't instant fixes, they grew and gained momentum. As a club we were acting like any big organisation that's lost its way. Too many divisions, no proper leadership and too much waste.

 

We were humbled and took it on the chin. Hughton and his players have momentum again. I don't know if you went last night but from the TV footage the ground looked like it was rocking again. It's about energy. I remember the feeling of anti climax after we finished 5th. Once that mindset is there you either need a huge amount of luck, money or both. We blew a lot of money but we didn't get any luck and people were waiting for us to fail.

 

 

Now it's someone elses turn, maybe Liverpool and we can hopefully get on with building a decent side with stable management and move on up the league.

 

Of course it might not happen like that but IMO it could. I've said it before, there are too many here who seem to be almost wishing for it not to happen and I really don't see what the benefit is.

 

Good Post

 

Have a read of Caulkins latest today, lot of sense in it.

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I might be getting whooshed here but how does buying young quality players constitute a workable plan for success in anyway? It's what every fucking club out there is trying to do man. You might as well say I think we should try and win some trophies. <_<

Yes but some people still seem to have a problem with it. We had a dressing room full of egos and wages that were way too high for the results we were getting. I know it's easy to have a pop at Ashley but this policy is clearly an improvement on the latter years of the Shepherd era.

 

Arsenal, ManU, Barcelona constantly have good young players coming through who they either keep hold of or sell on for a profit. I don't think we did it enough.

 

As I say, it remains to be seen what happens but I think it's the right approach for where we are and where we'd got to.

 

I have a bad feeling this is about to turn into a Leazes thread

 

He's been wrong before.

 

He thought Souness was a good appointment and didn't think we'd get promoted back up again.

 

 

I was wrong about Allardyce, I thought he'd make the transition and be a great long term manager. If any of us knew any better we'd actually be doing something in the game not just posting about it.

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I wouldn't disagree but I still don't see any real method to what Ashley is doing beyond buying players on the cheap and hoping they come good. A sensible way of doing it would be having a good scouting network, a good academy (the other two in the North East are still vastly superior to ours) and mixing getting in young players with some tried and tested experience. The latter is needed in particular in terms of a goalscorer for next season. I'll give some credit for the likes of Krul, Vukic and Kadar but at the same time I bet they get sold on anyway and it's not like they've been given much chance to develop with 1st team opportunities here, is it? I know Vukic has been injured. A case in point is Lua Lua. We've sent him out on loan and he's done well but why didn't we just give him the sort of cameo role that Pancrate has been afforded instead? I think what I'm trying to say is that we're still shite at bringing on young players.

Edit: for Asprilla.

Edited by alex
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I wouldn't disagree but I still don't see any real method to what Ashley is doing beyond buying players on the cheap and hoping they come good. A sensible way of doing it would be having a good scouting network, a good academy (the other two in the North East are still vastly superior to ours) and mixing getting in young players with some tried and tested experience. The latter is needed in particular in terms of a goalscorer for next season. I'll give some credit for the likes of Krul, Vukic and Kadar but at the same time I bet they get sold on anyway and it's not like they've been given much chance to develop with 1st team opportunities here, is it? I know Vukic has been injured. A case in point is Lua Lua. We've sent him out on loan and he's done well but why didn't we just give him the sort of cameo role that Pancrate has be afforded instead? I think what I'm trying to say is that we're still shite at bringing on young players.

 

I agree that a good scouting/youth system is one of the last things you want to cut back on. Makes absolutely no sense to me and I hope Ashley is taking it more seriously than his predecessors. We'll see, one benefit of not paying too much for players is that if they're cack you can move them on quietly without too much fuss and the others can make their mark without the pressure of expectation being too high.

 

I'm not defending how Ashley's behaved up until now. More what I'm saying is that he's still here and presumably has learned SOMETHING about running a football club. We're back in the PL with a manager who's had a chance to learn away from the glare of the spotlight and seemingly a good feeling about the club again.

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The only policy he has is the player has to be cheap man.

I don't think we're any worse as a side now than we were last year and we haven't spent much. For every Shearer there's a Luque or Boumsong.

 

We were relegated, the wheels came off. We weren't too big to go down. I think like most things it was a chance to take stock, lower expectations of a quick fix and start rebuilding.

 

The Keegan and Robson eras weren't instant fixes, they grew and gained momentum. As a club we were acting like any big organisation that's lost its way. Too many divisions, no proper leadership and too much waste.

 

We were humbled and took it on the chin. Hughton and his players have momentum again. I don't know if you went last night but from the TV footage the ground looked like it was rocking again. It's about energy. I remember the feeling of anti climax after we finished 5th. Once that mindset is there you either need a huge amount of luck, money or both. We blew a lot of money but we didn't get any luck and people were waiting for us to fail.

 

 

Now it's someone elses turn, maybe Liverpool and we can hopefully get on with building a decent side with stable management and move on up the league.

 

Of course it might not happen like that but IMO it could. I've said it before, there are too many here who seem to be almost wishing for it not to happen and I really don't see what the benefit is.

 

Good Post

 

Have a read of Caulkins latest today, lot of sense in it.

 

See, things must be on the up. Even the journalism's better.... <_<

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I wouldn't disagree but I still don't see any real method to what Ashley is doing beyond buying players on the cheap and hoping they come good. A sensible way of doing it would be having a good scouting network, a good academy (the other two in the North East are still vastly superior to ours) and mixing getting in young players with some tried and tested experience. The latter is needed in particular in terms of a goalscorer for next season. I'll give some credit for the likes of Krul, Vukic and Kadar but at the same time I bet they get sold on anyway and it's not like they've been given much chance to develop with 1st team opportunities here, is it? I know Vukic has been injured. A case in point is Lua Lua. We've sent him out on loan and he's done well but why didn't we just give him the sort of cameo role that Pancrate has be afforded instead? I think what I'm trying to say is that we're still shite at bringing on young players.

 

I agree that a good scouting/youth system is one of the last things you want to cut back on. Makes absolutely no sense to me and I hope Ashley is taking it more seriously than his predecessors. We'll see, one benefit of not paying too much for players is that if they're cack you can move them on quietly without too much fuss and the others can make their mark without the pressure of expectation being too high.

 

I'm not defending how Ashley's behaved up until now. More what I'm saying is that he's still here and presumably has learned SOMETHING about running a football club. We're back in the PL with a manager who's had a chance to learn away from the glare of the spotlight and seemingly a good feeling about the club again.

He's not though, that's the point I'm making. The academy's still an absolute joke. I take your other points on board btw.

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I wouldn't disagree but I still don't see any real method to what Ashley is doing beyond buying players on the cheap and hoping they come good. A sensible way of doing it would be having a good scouting network, a good academy (the other two in the North East are still vastly superior to ours) and mixing getting in young players with some tried and tested experience. The latter is needed in particular in terms of a goalscorer for next season. I'll give some credit for the likes of Krul, Vukic and Kadar but at the same time I bet they get sold on anyway and it's not like they've been given much chance to develop with 1st team opportunities here, is it? I know Vukic has been injured. A case in point is Lua Lua. We've sent him out on loan and he's done well but why didn't we just give him the sort of cameo role that Pancrate has be afforded instead? I think what I'm trying to say is that we're still shite at bringing on young players.

 

I agree that a good scouting/youth system is one of the last things you want to cut back on. Makes absolutely no sense to me and I hope Ashley is taking it more seriously than his predecessors. We'll see, one benefit of not paying too much for players is that if they're cack you can move them on quietly without too much fuss and the others can make their mark without the pressure of expectation being too high.

 

I'm not defending how Ashley's behaved up until now. More what I'm saying is that he's still here and presumably has learned SOMETHING about running a football club. We're back in the PL with a manager who's had a chance to learn away from the glare of the spotlight and seemingly a good feeling about the club again.

He's not though, that's the point I'm making. The academy's still an absolute joke. I take your other points on board btw.

 

 

Absolute tosh

 

He came in and tried to put a system in place with various scouting roles etc. All those blokes whose names I forget that were going to be searching the world (via you tube) for talent.

 

Then came Keegangate, tits up and relegation

 

The point is the original idea was to have an extensive system in place.

 

Having being relegated, managerless and debts mounting, staff made redundant it is quite clear that very little (appointment of carr aside) was going to happen til promotion had been assured.

 

That has now happened and IF and its a fucking huge IF, he doesnt sell us, I have no doubt that he will once again copy his retail empire and try to put systems and structures in place to build us into a strong position.

 

The difference, hopefully , will be lesson will have been learned from his first attempt and this time the structure will be solid , stable and work.

 

That is the only way this club is ever going to compete at the heighest level again.

Edited by Christmas Tree
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Carlton Cole, Giles Barnes, Jamie O'Hara, Jozy Altidore, Valon Behrami, Kevin-Prince Boateng, Alan Hutton, Graham Dorrans, Skjelbred, Tom Cleverly, Joe Ledley, Charlie Austin and Charlie Adam.

Edited by Flair
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More what I'm saying is that he's still here and presumably has learned SOMETHING about running a football club.

 

I wouldn't rush to make that presumption. The only this he's done that I've been pleased with was the reasonable backing given to Hughton during the transfer window, even that was only because he knew it would be a small investment likely to pay off.

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I wouldn't disagree but I still don't see any real method to what Ashley is doing beyond buying players on the cheap and hoping they come good. A sensible way of doing it would be having a good scouting network, a good academy (the other two in the North East are still vastly superior to ours) and mixing getting in young players with some tried and tested experience. The latter is needed in particular in terms of a goalscorer for next season. I'll give some credit for the likes of Krul, Vukic and Kadar but at the same time I bet they get sold on anyway and it's not like they've been given much chance to develop with 1st team opportunities here, is it? I know Vukic has been injured. A case in point is Lua Lua. We've sent him out on loan and he's done well but why didn't we just give him the sort of cameo role that Pancrate has be afforded instead? I think what I'm trying to say is that we're still shite at bringing on young players.

 

I agree that a good scouting/youth system is one of the last things you want to cut back on. Makes absolutely no sense to me and I hope Ashley is taking it more seriously than his predecessors. We'll see, one benefit of not paying too much for players is that if they're cack you can move them on quietly without too much fuss and the others can make their mark without the pressure of expectation being too high.

 

I'm not defending how Ashley's behaved up until now. More what I'm saying is that he's still here and presumably has learned SOMETHING about running a football club. We're back in the PL with a manager who's had a chance to learn away from the glare of the spotlight and seemingly a good feeling about the club again.

He's not though, that's the point I'm making. The academy's still an absolute joke. I take your other points on board btw.

 

 

Absolute tosh

 

He came in and tried to put a system in place with various scouting roles etc. All those blokes whose names I forget that were going to be searching the world (via you tube) for talent.

 

Then came Keegangate, tits up and relegation

 

The point is the original idea was to have an extensive system in place.

 

Having being relegated, managerless and debts mounting, staff made redundant it is quite clear that very little (appointment of carr aside) was going to happen til promotion had been assured.

 

That has now happened and IF and its a fucking huge IF, he doesnt sell us, I have no doubt that he will once again copy his retail empire and try to put systems and structures in place to build us into a strong position.

 

The difference, hopefully , will be lesson will have been learned from his first attempt and this time the structure will be solid , stable and work.

 

That is the only way this club is ever going to compete at the heighest level again.

Hasn't happened. More cheap talk. Something you and your hero share. <_<

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Over the last 5+ years we've really sucked at giving opportunities to promising players coming through with player like Nicky Butt and Geremi favoured becauseof their experience (which now includes relegation).

 

That needs to improve greatly.

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Btw, the chaos at the club you're on about CT was all Ashley's doing. And it still shouldn't have prevented him from getting the academy side of things right. The bloke he employed to do is still meant to be getting paid by the club as well. <_<

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x Iker Muniain (Atletic Bilbao)

x Mesut Özil (Werder Bremen)

x Eden Hazard (Lille)

x Simon Kjaer (Palermo)

x Rui Patrício (Sporting)

x Thomas Müller (Bayern Münich)

x Sotiris Ninis (Panathinaikos)

x Nuri Şahin (Feyenoord)

x Rasmus Elm (AZ Alkmaar)

x Emir Bajrami (Elfsborg)

x Toni Kroos (Bayern Munich)

x Lulinha (Corinthians)

x Alan Dzagoev (CSKA Moscow)

x Alexis Sánchez (Udinese)

x Marko Marin (Werder Bremen)

x Siem de Jong (Ajax)

x Jozy Altidore (Hull City)

x Henri Saivet (Bordeaux)

x Erton Fejzullahu (N.E.C)

x Miralem Sulejmani (Ajax)

x Jeremy Menez (Roma))

x Renan Oliveira (Atlético Mineiro))

x Marko Arnautovic (Twente)

x Neymar (Santos)

x Mame Biram Diouf (Molde)

 

Top young talents in Europe. How many of them will end up at our club? If this scouting network is serious, atleast a few but I doubt it.

Edited by Flair
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x Iker Muniain (Atletic Bilbao)

x Mesut Özil (Werder Bremen)

x Eden Hazard (Lille)

x Simon Kjaer (Palermo)

x Rui Patrício (Sporting)

x Thomas Müller (Bayern Münich)

x Sotiris Ninis (Panathinaikos)

x Nuri Şahin (Feyenoord)

x Rasmus Elm (AZ Alkmaar)

x Emir Bajrami (Elfsborg)

x Toni Kroos (Bayern Munich)

x Lulinha (Corinthians)

x Alan Dzagoev (CSKA Moscow)

x Alexis Sánchez (Udinese)

x Marko Marin (Werder Bremen)

x Siem de Jong (Ajax)

x Jozy Altidore (Hull City)

x Henri Saivet (Bordeaux)

x Erton Fejzullahu (N.E.C)

x Miralem Sulejmani (Ajax)

x Jeremy Menez (Roma))

x Renan Oliveira (Atlético Mineiro))

x Marko Arnautovic (Twente)

x Neymar (Santos)

x Mame Biram Diouf (Molde)

 

Top young talents in Europe. How many of them will end up at our club? If this scouting network is serious, atleast a few but I doubt it.

 

<_< Stealing lists of players from Youtube videos? Even Dennis Wise actually watched the video.

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x Iker Muniain (Atletic Bilbao)

x Mesut Özil (Werder Bremen)

x Eden Hazard (Lille)

x Simon Kjaer (Palermo)

x Rui Patrício (Sporting)

x Thomas Müller (Bayern Münich)

x Sotiris Ninis (Panathinaikos)

x Nuri Şahin (Feyenoord)

x Rasmus Elm (AZ Alkmaar)

x Emir Bajrami (Elfsborg)

x Toni Kroos (Bayern Munich)

x Lulinha (Corinthians)

x Alan Dzagoev (CSKA Moscow)

x Alexis Sánchez (Udinese)

x Marko Marin (Werder Bremen)

x Siem de Jong (Ajax)

x Jozy Altidore (Hull City)

x Henri Saivet (Bordeaux)

x Erton Fejzullahu (N.E.C)

x Miralem Sulejmani (Ajax)

x Jeremy Menez (Roma))

x Renan Oliveira (Atlético Mineiro))

x Marko Arnautovic (Twente)

x Neymar (Santos)

x Mame Biram Diouf (Molde)

 

Top young talents in Europe. How many of them will end up at our club? If this scouting network is serious, atleast a few but I doubt it.

 

<_< Stealing lists of players from Youtube videos? Even Dennis Wise actually watched the video.

 

I guess you failed to see the part where I stated it's not my list. I guess reading isn't a strong point? :aye:

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