The hype that is England

[LeazesMag 0]

We were told that the onset of the premier league would concentrate on improving players at the highest level. We were told that along with the new "academy" to teach our best youngsters how to play football, would bring forward a golden era of world class footballers, based on the French model, which in fact brought them the World Cup and European Championship and several other good showings in the 2 major tournaments including a losing final.

 

We were told that Kevin Keegan "lacked tactical nous" and the players at his disposal should be doing better. Enter Sven, a club team winner of trophies, who had "tactical nous". Rephrase "tactical nous" for defensive rubbish, as it happens, at least that is what I call it, as bespoken by those wise men of the London based press.

 

Steve McLaren was also championed, then hounded and ridiculed. In comes Capello, with the outstanding achievements at club level too. Gets off to a great start, but wait, the real thing hasn't started yet.

 

In fact, these players, Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes etc a decade ago, were the previously spoken "golden era" all waiting for the right guidance and coaching which was all they needed.

 

We are now reading, or hoping, the next generation will be the long awaited "golden boys".

 

In reality, nothing changes. The players are not good enough and never have been. Englands place in world football is last 8, with the odd last 4, or today the last 16.

 

Selection mistakes made by Capello, his selections of Heskey especially today beyond belief, and the constant playing of Lampard and Gerrard by him and his predecessors.......when will they learn ? Who is the professionals and who is the amateurs. I can see it doesn't work so how can these highly paid professionals not ? Players need to play the way they play for their clubs. The team ethic is more important than fitting square pegs into round holes. Every World Cup I end up saying this to work colleagues and lately, on message boards too. From Sven being 2-1 down to Brazil and changing like for like, I think he took off a defender and brought on a defender. "Tactically astute" dear me.

 

Man for man today, we overhyped pretty much all of our players. The great Gerrard and Lampard, were shite, apart from a few shots from Lampard including the disgracefully over the line goal that was not given. Terry and Upson were exposed time and time again. Why was Barry so far up the pitch when he lost the ball for the 3rd goal, there was plenty of time left, he took a player on when he ought to have been sitting 10 yards deeper, or passed the ball and got himself back into position, because it wasn't rocket science to see that Terry and Upson were struggling against pace and needed him to protect them.

 

Back to Lampard and Gerrard. They are not world class and never have been. Uzil (?) and Shweinstiegher (?) are though, they are a near perfect partnership and controlled the game and will do against other teams. Absolutely outstanding and along with the desire of Klose when he scored the first goal, this is team that only a good side will beat, as I predicted at the start of the tournament.

 

Milner ? Wright Phillips ? Don't make me laugh. Johnson has had a good world cup and along with James and Ashley Cole, is probably the only 3 players who can hold their heads up.

Edited June 27, 2010 by LeazesMag

[LeazesMag 0]

We were told that the onset of the premier league would concentrate on improving players at the highest level. We were told that along with the new "academy" to teach our best youngsters how to play football, would bring forward a golden era of world class footballers, based on the French model, which in fact brought them the World Cup and European Championship and several other good showings in the 2 major tournaments including a losing final.

 

We were told that Kevin Keegan "lacked tactical nous" and the players at his disposal should be doing better. Enter Sven, a club team winner of trophies, who had "tactical nous". Rephrase "tactical nous" for defensive rubbish, as it happens, at least that is what I call it, as bespoken by those wise men of the London based press.

 

Steve McLaren was also championed, then hounded and ridiculed. In comes Capello, with the outstanding achievements at club level too. Gets off to a great start, but wait, the real thing hasn't started yet.

 

In fact, these players, Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes etc a decade ago, were the previously spoken "golden era" all waiting for the right guidance and coaching which was all they needed.

 

We are now reading, or hoping, the next generation will be the long awaited "golden boys".

 

In reality, nothing changes. The players are not good enough and never have been. Englands place in world football is last 8, with the odd last 4, or today the last 16.

 

Selection mistakes made by Capello, his selections of Heskey especially today beyond belief, and the constant playing of Lampard and Gerrard by him and his predecessors.......when will they learn ? Who is the professionals and who is the amateurs. I can see it doesn't work so how can these highly paid professionals not ? Players need to play the way they play for their clubs. The team ethic is more important than fitting square pegs into round holes. Every World Cup I end up saying this to work colleagues and lately, on message boards too. From Sven being 2-1 down to Brazil and changing like for like, I think he took off a defender and brought on a defender. "Tactically astute" dear me.

 

Man for man today, we overhyped pretty much all of our players. The great Gerrard and Lampard, were shite, apart from a few shots from Lampard including the disgracefully over the line goal that was not given. Terry and Upson were exposed time and time again. Why was Barry so far up the pitch when he lost the ball for the 3rd goal, there was plenty of time left, he took a player on when he ought to have been sitting 10 yards deeper, or passed the ball and got himself back into position, because it wasn't rocket science to see that Terry and Upson were struggling against pace and needed him to protect them.

 

Back to Lampard and Gerrard. They are not world class and never have been. Uzil (?) and Shweinstiegher (?) are though, they are a near perfect partnership and controlled the game and will do against other teams. Absolutely outstanding and along with the desire of Klose when he scored the first goal, this is team that only a good side will beat, as I predicted at the start of the tournament.

 

Milner ? Wright Phillips ? Don't make me laugh. Johnson has had a good world cup and along with James and Ashley Cole, is probably the only 3 players who can hold their heads up.

 

merge this into the other thread if someone wants too. I just thought a summary was worth a thread of its own.

[Sima 0]

All of England's best players are surrounded by world class internationals at their respective clubs.

 

Strip those away and you see their real ability.

[TicTacWoe 0]

Ozil may become world class but Sweinsteiger is definitely not, he's been pretty erratic for the last few seasons, many Bayern fans wanted rid of him until recently when his form has improved. Lampard and Gerrard play like world class players for their clubs but not for England. The problem is for whatever reason the Germans play as a team and England don't.

[Walliver 0]

At the start of the game the commentator said something along the lines of "If you combined starting line ups you'd take one, maybe two" - I presumed at the time he was speaking about England but now realise that he meant Germany. Other than Cashley, who would get into their team?

[TicTacWoe 0]

At the start of the game the commentator said something along the lines of "If you combined starting line ups you'd take one, maybe two" - I presumed at the time he was speaking about England but now realise that he meant Germany. Other than Cashley, who would get into their team?

 

Are you serious? The England players are far superior to the Germans in almost every area, they just play pants as a team. Real Madrid are interested in buying Lampard and A.Cole for instance, how many of the Germans are they after? The german team are good like, underrated by some but nothing amazing, the key fact as I said before is they play as a team unlike England.

[Walliver 0]

At the start of the game the commentator said something along the lines of "If you combined starting line ups you'd take one, maybe two" - I presumed at the time he was speaking about England but now realise that he meant Germany. Other than Cashley, who would get into their team?

 

Are you serious? The England players are far superior to the Germans in almost every area, they just play pants as a team. Real Madrid are interested in buying Lampard and A.Cole for instance, how many of the Germans are they after? The german team are good like, underrated by some but nothing amazing, the key fact as I said before is they play as a team unlike England.

 

A team who went out in the last 16 of the Champions League (when Bayern with a good number of the Germany squad got to the final) are allegedly after Lampard is your argument? I'd be surprised if they signed him and then even more surprised if he played regularly.

 

Who would you drop form the Germany team to play Lampard?

[TicTacWoe 0]

At the start of the game the commentator said something along the lines of "If you combined starting line ups you'd take one, maybe two" - I presumed at the time he was speaking about England but now realise that he meant Germany. Other than Cashley, who would get into their team?

 

Are you serious? The England players are far superior to the Germans in almost every area, they just play pants as a team. Real Madrid are interested in buying Lampard and A.Cole for instance, how many of the Germans are they after? The german team are good like, underrated by some but nothing amazing, the key fact as I said before is they play as a team unlike England.

 

A team who went out in the last 16 of the Champions League (when Bayern with a good number of the Germany squad got to the final) are allegedly after Lampard is your argument? I'd be surprised if they signed him and then even more surprised if he played regularly.

 

Who would you drop form the Germany team to play Lampard?

 

Any one of them, every single season Lampard has scored more goals and had more assists than every single German has for their clubs over the past 5 seasons, he plays absolutely wank for England, horrednous most of the time, but he's still a much better player than the Germans. Mind you, he is on the way down now at his age, so it is time for England to be thinking about his replacement.

 

As I said the problem isn't the quality of the players, I'd say this Englad team is at least top 8 but more like top 5 in terms of best squads, the problem has always been getting them to gel properly which no one has succeeded in doing really.

Edited June 27, 2010 by TicTacWoe

[LeazesMag 0]

As I said, the team ethic ie playing them in the positions they play for their clubs and getting the balance right is what ought to be done, but you are overhyping Englands players. We know Lampard is a top club player, but you can't be called world class when you fail to perform on the world stage as often as he and others have

[Gemmill 35463]

As I said, the team ethic ie playing them in the positions they play for their clubs and getting the balance right is what ought to be done, but you are overhyping Englands players. We know Lampard is a top club player, but you can't be called world class when you fail to perform on the world stage as often as he and others have

 

This is true. Time for the media to stop blowing smoke up these lads' arseholes with all the "world class" chat. And sadly Mr. Shearer is one of the very worst offenders.

[sniffer 0]

Definitely not the players individually but collectively they are pants. I'd say Rooney has been the single biggest flop the tournament and yet, you know he'll score twenty plus next season with some being brilliant solo efforts.

 

Capello has clearly been shown to have no fucking idea what his best team was or when and who to substitute to change the flow of a game. Easy to blame the manager but in this case he just wasn't up to it.

[TicTacWoe 0]

There's serious over-hyping of the Germans going on now, some of them are genuinely great players like Lahm or good prospects like Ozil/Neur but most of them are quite average.

 

Friederich- relegated to the german 2nd division with Hertha Berlin

Boateng- good player but played out of position

Metezacker- Technically appauling

Sweinsteiger- Couldn't get into the Bayern team at times in the last couple of seasons

Podolski- 2 goals in the league last season

Klose- Bayern bench warmer these days

 

They play exceptionally well as a team but the England team should be easily able to beat this side if they played to their potential.

Edited June 27, 2010 by TicTacWoe

[Problem Child 0]

LM is right, the whole ‘golden generation’ thing has been based on media hype not ability. Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney are good players but the standard of the domestic teams they play against week in week out has been in decline for years. It’s all become too easy for them, too easy to shine in a league full of poor quality teams that lack the ability to compete with the top three.

 

The real problem for the national side is the PL. The money involved has forced the majority of teams to adopt a survival at all costs approach. They’ve stopped trying to play football and do little more that shut up shop and try not to get beat. Things like ball retention and tactical innovation simply don’t enter into the equation. West Brom is just about the only team who have tried to stay up playing a game based on possession/pass/move.

 

There is no scope for developing the English game in an uncompetitive league that discourages risk taking.

[TicTacWoe 0]

LM is right, the whole ‘golden generation’ thing has been based on media hype not ability. Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney are good players but the standard of the domestic teams they play against week in week out has been in decline for years. It’s all become too easy for them, too easy to shine in a league full of poor quality teams that lack the ability to compete with the top three.

 

The real problem for the national side is the PL. The money involved has forced the majority of teams to adopt a survival at all costs approach. They’ve stopped trying to play football and do little more that shut up shop and try not to get beat. Things like ball retention and tactical innovation simply don’t enter into the equation. West Brom is just about the only team who have tried to stay up playing a game based on possession/pass/move.

 

There is no scope for developing the English game in an uncompetitive league that discourages risk taking.

 

The English League is no less competetive than the Spanish where it's a battle between Real Madrid and Barca year in year out with the third team finishing miles behind or the Italian league where Inter have won the league 5 seasons in a row with relative ease on the whole.

Edited June 27, 2010 by TicTacWoe

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3279]

LM is right, the whole ‘golden generation’ thing has been based on media hype not ability. Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney are good players but the standard of the domestic teams they play against week in week out has been in decline for years. It’s all become too easy for them, too easy to shine in a league full of poor quality teams that lack the ability to compete with the top three.

 

The real problem for the national side is the PL. The money involved has forced the majority of teams to adopt a survival at all costs approach. They’ve stopped trying to play football and do little more that shut up shop and try not to get beat. Things like ball retention and tactical innovation simply don’t enter into the equation. West Brom is just about the only team who have tried to stay up playing a game based on possession/pass/move.

 

There is no scope for developing the English game in an uncompetitive league that discourages risk taking.

 

The English League is no less competetive than the Spanish where it's a battle between Real Madrid and Barca year in year out with the third team finishing miles behind or the Italian league where Inter have won the league 5 seasons in a row with relative ease on the whole.

 

Its really got nothing to do with the league but the techniocal ability of the players. Watch the premier league and see how often possession is lost by all of the teams playing in it. Nobody has a clus about passing its really all about speed and if you can counter that they are all fucked.

[spongebob toonpants 3643]

Lampard scoring twenty goals a season says a lot more about the Premier League than it does Lampard.

 

I think the main problem with the England players is that they are thick. they certailny dont have the footballing intelligence to deal with the World Cup.

Terry looks great for Chelsea, but compare his football brain to Carvalho - now that man is a footballer.

 

Stevie G (who I hate, but I thought played well enough to avoid the worst of the criticism) is a match winner for Liverpool, when he is playing alongside Alonso Mascherano and Torres.

 

As for Rooney - what the fuck happened there. Great players dominate the biggest tournaments. The jury has been out and has come back. Verdict, not got it at this level.

[Andrew 4263]

Lampard scoring twenty goals a season says a lot more about the Premier League than it does Lampard.

 

I think the main problem with the England players is that they are thick. they certailny dont have the footballing intelligence to deal with the World Cup.

Terry looks great for Chelsea, but compare his football brain to Carvalho - now that man is a footballer.

 

Stevie G (who I hate, but I thought played well enough to avoid the worst of the criticism) is a match winner for Liverpool, when he is playing alongside Alonso Mascherano and Torres.

 

As for Rooney - what the fuck happened there. Great players dominate the biggest tournaments. The jury has been out and has come back. Verdict, not got it at this level.

[spongebob toonpants 3643]

Lampard scoring twenty goals a season says a lot more about the Premier League than it does Lampard.

 

I think the main problem with the England players is that they are thick. they certailny dont have the footballing intelligence to deal with the World Cup.

Terry looks great for Chelsea, but compare his football brain to Carvalho - now that man is a footballer.

 

Stevie G (who I hate, but I thought played well enough to avoid the worst of the criticism) is a match winner for Liverpool, when he is playing alongside Alonso Mascherano and Torres.

 

As for Rooney - what the fuck happened there. Great players dominate the biggest tournaments. The jury has been out and has come back. Verdict, not got it at this level.

 

Gerard looked a lot better last year when he was still a Liverpool player

[Andrew 4263]

Lampard scoring twenty goals a season says a lot more about the Premier League than it does Lampard.

 

I think the main problem with the England players is that they are thick. they certailny dont have the footballing intelligence to deal with the World Cup.

Terry looks great for Chelsea, but compare his football brain to Carvalho - now that man is a footballer.

 

Stevie G (who I hate, but I thought played well enough to avoid the worst of the criticism) is a match winner for Liverpool, when he is playing alongside Alonso Mascherano and Torres.

 

As for Rooney - what the fuck happened there. Great players dominate the biggest tournaments. The jury has been out and has come back. Verdict, not got it at this level.

 

Gerard looked a lot better last year when he was still a Liverpool player

 

I know, I just felt like being pedantic, youre spot on btw

[LeazesMag 0]

There's serious over-hyping of the Germans going on now, some of them are genuinely great players like Lahm or good prospects like Ozil/Neur but most of them are quite average.

 

Friederich- relegated to the german 2nd division with Hertha Berlin

Boateng- good player but played out of position

Metezacker- Technically appauling

Sweinsteiger- Couldn't get into the Bayern team at times in the last couple of seasons

Podolski- 2 goals in the league last season

Klose- Bayern bench warmer these days

 

They play exceptionally well as a team but the England team should be easily able to beat this side if they played to their potential.

 

they produce in these tournaments when it matters.

 

"If they play to their potential" - is a non starter. NEVER playing to their potential is more accurate, which asks the question what "potential" do you talk about here ? Who is overhyped when they have just walloped us and always beat us when it really counts.

[TicTacWoe 0]

There's serious over-hyping of the Germans going on now, some of them are genuinely great players like Lahm or good prospects like Ozil/Neur but most of them are quite average.

 

Friederich- relegated to the german 2nd division with Hertha Berlin

Boateng- good player but played out of position

Metezacker- Technically appauling

Sweinsteiger- Couldn't get into the Bayern team at times in the last couple of seasons

Podolski- 2 goals in the league last season

Klose- Bayern bench warmer these days

 

They play exceptionally well as a team but the England team should be easily able to beat this side if they played to their potential.

 

they produce in these tournaments when it matters.

 

"If they play to their potential" - is a non starter. NEVER playing to their potential is more accurate, which asks the question what "potential" do you talk about here ? Who is overhyped when they have just walloped us and always beat us when it really counts.

 

Never for England yes, if you're talking purely about how these players play for their national sides the Germans are much better players I have no argument there.

[LeazesMag 0]

There's serious over-hyping of the Germans going on now, some of them are genuinely great players like Lahm or good prospects like Ozil/Neur but most of them are quite average.

 

Friederich- relegated to the german 2nd division with Hertha Berlin

Boateng- good player but played out of position

Metezacker- Technically appauling

Sweinsteiger- Couldn't get into the Bayern team at times in the last couple of seasons

Podolski- 2 goals in the league last season

Klose- Bayern bench warmer these days

 

They play exceptionally well as a team but the England team should be easily able to beat this side if they played to their potential.

 

they produce in these tournaments when it matters.

 

"If they play to their potential" - is a non starter. NEVER playing to their potential is more accurate, which asks the question what "potential" do you talk about here ? Who is overhyped when they have just walloped us and always beat us when it really counts.

 

Never for England yes, if you're talking purely about how these players play for their national sides the Germans are much better players I have no argument there.

 

 

I am. My point is therefore, the "potential" of Englands players is very overhyped

 

I don't watch German club football, I can only go by what I've seen of them for Germany, and today they completely outplayed us and the players in particular I mentioned look as good as all the other players playing well in this tournament. But that is Germany, they always do.

[Happy Face 29]

We do have world class players. They generally play in world class teams, and they stand out as the best performers in those teams that win major European trophies.....but England wouldn't be in contention for the Premier League, let alone the champions league.

 

Some players use their skill to excel amongst also-ran players like Heskey, Milner and Upson. I thought Lampard took it up a notch today and to some degree Gerrard...but Rooney should be ashamed of his pathetic whining at his own team-mates whenever the ball didn't roll exactly as he wanted it and his own lack of ability whenever he did get on the ball (through the whole competition, not just today).

[Kitman 2188]

Fergie ensured Rooney wouldn't be up to much at the WC by flogging him to death at the end of last season and I wouldn't be surprised if he's not fully fit. Judging by the reports it sounds like we needed more pace in central defence and midfield. England are ridiculously overhyped for what they are and there's not enough strength in depth.

[Barney 0]

Fergie said recently that ManU is a family club and that players get an arm wrapped around them. I don't think he went as far as to say that England tend to hang their own players out to dry, but suggested that may be why a lot of players don't perform.