Old Board vs New Board

[ewerk 26394]

Also, the first set of Accounts were heavily impacted by what went on before him as wage increases were decided before he arrived apart from when Ashley rubber stamped signings which were made during the takeover. And, he had to really make as he would have been in no position to do anything once he'd taken over as it would have been too close to the end of the transfer window and he'd be starting from scratch.

 

I know he gets blamed for those shit signings, he was in a no win situation as the club had to be run with the new season approaching. He would have been rightly taken apart by us if he’d came in and blocked transfers.

 

He took over in mid-June, nowhere near the end of the transfer window. The problem was that he agreed to certain signings before he had a clue what it cost to run a football club.

[Slightly Bemused 0]

He took over in mid-June, nowhere near the end of the transfer window. The problem was that he agreed to certain signings before he had a clue what it cost to run a football club.

 

 

At what point should he have started this transfer embargo? He had a manager who wanted players in and we'd released 5 first team players at the end of the previous season. If he had waited until he knew the costs of running a club then we wouldn't have signed anybody because it was always going to take more than the time we had left. In hindsight, I would have loved him to knock back Smith and Barton to name two but hindsight is a lot easier than doing something which didn't look too bad at the time. The alternative that I see is a situation where we'd be panic buying at the last minute.

 

Anyway, it’s late.

[ewerk 26394]

He took over in mid-June, nowhere near the end of the transfer window. The problem was that he agreed to certain signings before he had a clue what it cost to run a football club.

 

 

At what point should he have started this transfer embargo? He had a manager who wanted players in and we'd released 5 first team players at the end of the previous season. If he had waited until he knew the costs of running a club then we wouldn't have signed anybody because it was always going to take more than the time we had left. In hindsight, I would have loved him to knock back Smith and Barton to name two but hindsight is a lot easier than doing something which didn't look too bad at the time. The alternative that I see is a situation where we'd be panic buying at the last minute.

 

Anyway, it’s late.

 

The problem was that he came in on a high, many of us thought he'd be our saviour and he was happy enough to act like it. He granted large contracts to the likes of Geremi, Smith and Barton without thinking of the consequences. The point is that he is a fucking idiot who bought the club giving no thought as to what it would cost to run and we've paid for his mistake ever since.

[Slightly Bemused 0]

The problem was that he came in on a high, many of us thought he'd be our saviour and he was happy enough to act like it. He granted large contracts to the likes of Geremi, Smith and Barton without thinking of the consequences. The point is that he is a fucking idiot who bought the club giving no thought as to what it would cost to run and we've paid for his mistake ever since.

 

I think its beyond doubt that he came in on a high. As for the contracts he granted, he didn't have much choice and he's not doing it now so I don't see the problem.

 

Surely you're not going to say that the Hall/Shepherd regime wouldn't have backed the manager that they had appointed in the same way? What would have happened if they had and we were in the same situation with Allardyce when Mort sacked him? The players were about as low as they could possibly get and we were hitting a run of games that we were almost certainly not going to get many points from. Would we have stayed up under Allardyce with such a poor run of form and a terrible lack of confidence that the expected run of results would have brought? I know this is all hypothetical but we were shit and only going 1 way.

 

I would hate to think what state we'd be in now if Allardyce had remained and we'd gone down with increasing debt, a pending credit crunch and owners who couldn't service the levels of debt that we were carrying. People have mentioned that the gates have dropped since they arrived. Well, the gates were going down before they arrived as a lot of people were pissed off at the way the club was being run. We were potentially in deep shit without Ashley and it may have been worse than the shit we’ve actually had to put up with. The gates were down around 2,000 in our last season with Hall/Shepherd and that was before people had started to be put out of work because of the recession.

 

I agree Ashley has been a fucking idiot, I’m not sure if that’s so bad considering what could have happened. I’m not sure we’re still paying for his mistakes either because I think we’re in a better position than we’ve been in for years. We’ve off-loaded a load of the blood sucking bastards who were on our payroll and I mean both on and off the pitch. For the first time in a long time we actually look as if we’re going in the right direction and we don’t have a lead weight around our necks keeping us down. I know with Llambias we’re always capable of fucking up but for now he’s not doing that so I’ll wait and see how things go.

 

We are currently playing good football and have a young hungry team who seem to want to walk out onto the pitch and play for us instead of turning up for a last big pay cheque and long may it continue.

 

Sorry if that appears aggressive, it's not meant to be but the state of the club before Ashley arrived and the second year with him boils my piss. If we are on the up again then I'm not going to spend the time blowing out of my arse, I'd rather enjoy it before we're shit on again, as that always seems to happen at this club. Ashley has made pleny of mistakes but he’s also done some good and I think we’ll come out of this as a better club.

[Guest]

The problem was that he came in on a high, many of us thought he'd be our saviour and he was happy enough to act like it. He granted large contracts to the likes of Geremi, Smith and Barton without thinking of the consequences. The point is that he is a fucking idiot who bought the club giving no thought as to what it would cost to run and we've paid for his mistake ever since.

 

I think its beyond doubt that he came in on a high. As for the contracts he granted, he didn't have much choice and he's not doing it now so I don't see the problem.

 

Surely you're not going to say that the Hall/Shepherd regime wouldn't have backed the manager that they had appointed in the same way? What would have happened if they had and we were in the same situation with Allardyce when Mort sacked him? The players were about as low as they could possibly get and we were hitting a run of games that we were almost certainly not going to get many points from. Would we have stayed up under Allardyce with such a poor run of form and a terrible lack of confidence that the expected run of results would have brought? I know this is all hypothetical but we were shit and only going 1 way.

 

I would hate to think what state we'd be in now if Allardyce had remained and we'd gone down with increasing debt, a pending credit crunch and owners who couldn't service the levels of debt that we were carrying. People have mentioned that the gates have dropped since they arrived. Well, the gates were going down before they arrived as a lot of people were pissed off at the way the club was being run. We were potentially in deep shit without Ashley and it may have been worse than the shit we’ve actually had to put up with. The gates were down around 2,000 in our last season with Hall/Shepherd and that was before people had started to be put out of work because of the recession.

 

I agree Ashley has been a fucking idiot, I’m not sure if that’s so bad considering what could have happened. I’m not sure we’re still paying for his mistakes either because I think we’re in a better position than we’ve been in for years. We’ve off-loaded a load of the blood sucking bastards who were on our payroll and I mean both on and off the pitch. For the first time in a long time we actually look as if we’re going in the right direction and we don’t have a lead weight around our necks keeping us down. I know with Llambias we’re always capable of fucking up but for now he’s not doing that so I’ll wait and see how things go.

 

We are currently playing good football and have a young hungry team who seem to want to walk out onto the pitch and play for us instead of turning up for a last big pay cheque and long may it continue.

 

Sorry if that appears aggressive, it's not meant to be but the state of the club before Ashley arrived and the second year with him boils my piss. If we are on the up again then I'm not going to spend the time blowing out of my arse, I'd rather enjoy it before we're shit on again, as that always seems to happen at this club. Ashley has made pleny of mistakes but he’s also done some good and I think we’ll come out of this as a better club.

 

 

Sums up how I feel totally. Leazes will think you're saying that Ashley will get us to the Champions League more times than the Halls did though.

[Slightly Bemused 0]

Sums up how I feel totally. Leazes will think you're saying that Ashley will get us to the Champions League more times than the Halls did though.

 

 

Champions League? Fucking hell, were as far away from that as we are from the moon but we're no further from it than we were before Ashley came, we might even be closer to it. I'm sure of one thing, if we do get a manager who gives us our best Champions League finish ever we'll not sack the bastard because he only finishes 5th top of the league.

[Phil 6]

Ashley reckoned that he lent the club £111m on taking over to "pay some of the debt off, not all of it but some". How is that when the season before we had £69m? where did the other £42m magically appear from?

 

Stadium Mortgage was recalled in full post sale, around 50m.

 

 

 

SO..back to my question, how can we say that we were in the shit when we were only one of 8 clubs to make a profit?

 

Not in Europe with a squad full of massively overpaid players. Oh aye and Fat Sam in charge.

[Happy Face 29]

Happy face that corresponds with the period where TV money skyrocketed, so without doing anything our incoming would have increased vastly.

 

Without doing anything...but staying up.

 

I'm not sure what qualifies you to comment on the accounts but if pinching a graph off another site is the limit of your expertise then we’re not going to get far, are we?

 

I'll not ask you to scan your accountancy accreditation, I'd say most people commenting are doing so as laymen. Doesn't alter the truth that a graph can tell.

 

Our Operations loss had gone up from around £6 million to almost £26 million in 1 year. The losses would have been worse the year before if we hadn’t changed our financial year end to the 30th June. The overdraft had almost doubled during the last year in which we had income from Europe which wasn’t likely to something we were going to see again any time soon.

 

We had received a one off payment of £6,750,000 in compensation for Owen while these figures were all going tits up. This effectively reduced our losses as Owen was virtually taken off the wage bill for the best part of a year and was always going to become a future drain.

 

Graphs don't tell the full story without having the figures behind them. Also, the first set of Accounts were heavily impacted by what went on before him as wage increases were decided before he arrived apart from when Ashley rubber stamped signings which were made during the takeover. And, he had to really make as he would have been in no position to do anything once he'd taken over as it would have been too close to the end of the transfer window and he'd be starting from scratch.

 

I know he gets blamed for those shit signings, he was in a no win situation as the club had to be run with the new season approaching. He would have been rightly taken apart by us if he’d came in and blocked transfers.

 

All of which I hammered Shepherd for at the time. The one defence you've made of Ashley is for the rushed decisions when he arrived.....but his unpopularity didn't rise for a year after that. There's far more egregious displays of waste and short termism from him that have led us to be in our current unprecedented level of debt.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Happy Face

[Happy Face 29]

The fact remains Ashleys taken that bar for 2007 and doubled the height of it....and some. About 18 times the growth in net debt that occured in Shepherd's last season.

 

 

It looks a bit like this....

 

[Park Life 70]

How has that happenned?

 

I'm guessing 50m of it is that he's just added the mortgage that became due to the debt.

[Happy Face 29]

How has that happenned?

 

I'm guessing 50m of it is that he's just added the mortgage that became due to the debt.

 

I think so.

 

The £70m debt from 2007 became £124m immediatley due to clauses triggered from the sale.

[Park Life 70]

How has that happenned?

 

I'm guessing 50m of it is that he's just added the mortgage that became due to the debt.

 

I think so.

 

The £70m debt from 2007 became £124m immediatley due to clauses triggered from the sale.

 

What about the rest?

 

KK settlement 5m

FSA and crew settlement 5m

Rat Wise settlement 1m

 

What else?

[Happy Face 29]

How has that happenned?

 

I'm guessing 50m of it is that he's just added the mortgage that became due to the debt.

 

I think so.

 

The £70m debt from 2007 became £124m immediatley due to clauses triggered from the sale.

 

What about the rest?

 

KK settlement 5m

FSA and crew settlement 5m

Rat Wise settlement 1m

 

What else?

 

Crowds down 20%

Catering down god knows

advertising down god knows

TV cash down god knows

[OTF 6176]

The debt became payable, it wasn't suddenly created. So it would have been 124m debt with 70m payable prior if those were the numbers.

 

Mike Ashley has made plenty of mistakes, there's no denying that from any party including Ashley himself, but some of the fabrications and exaggerations in debt management on here seem absurd to me. It's one thing to talk numbers and another to talk specific things that he has done that have increased the debt. Sacking Allaryce and undermining Keegan are two that immediately spring to mind because both resulted in multi million dollar payouts. The latter of course contributed to the subsequent relegation so a sizable portion of blame lays with Ashley for that. That did of course lead to further losses with a sharp decline in television and prize money. A large amount of that was offset by players sales which netted in excess of 30 million pounds. Those sales and the release of other highly paid players resulted in a sizable drop in our total wage bill.

[Park Life 70]

How has that happenned?

 

I'm guessing 50m of it is that he's just added the mortgage that became due to the debt.

 

I think so.

 

The £70m debt from 2007 became £124m immediatley due to clauses triggered from the sale.

 

What about the rest?

 

KK settlement 5m

FSA and crew settlement 5m

Rat Wise settlement 1m

 

What else?

 

Crowds down 20%

Catering down god knows

advertising down god knows

TV cash down god knows

 

The KK saga was a big hit on the brand and the above the line income for sure. MA's general behaviour and the fact that partner brands are aware of our dislike of him will keep away the big money for the time being. I noticed that Audi have their 'rings' on the Man U heated seats (things like this).

 

Martines we still owed 4m will have been covered by the sale?

 

Luque we owed a fair amount on (one of the transfers Mort and MA were moaning about reg monies owed iirc)..Say 5m.

 

Viduka was really hurting the club costing 3.6m a year to feed and pay, same still goes for Smith.

[Happy Face 29]

The debt became payable, it wasn't suddenly created. So it would have been 124m debt with 70m payable prior if those were the numbers.

 

Mike Ashley has made plenty of mistakes, there's no denying that from any party including Ashley himself, but some of the fabrications and exaggerations in debt management on here seem absurd to me. It's one thing to talk numbers and another to talk specific things that he has done that have increased the debt. Sacking Allaryce and undermining Keegan are two that immediately spring to mind because both resulted in multi million dollar payouts. The latter of course contributed to the subsequent relegation so a sizable portion of blame lays with Ashley for that. That did of course lead to further losses with a sharp decline in television and prize money. A large amount of that was offset by players sales which netted in excess of 30 million pounds. Those sales and the release of other highly paid players resulted in a sizable drop in our total wage bill.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Not sure anyone's fabricating anything. I've already said what you just did.

[Park Life 70]

The debt became payable, it wasn't suddenly created. So it would have been 124m debt with 70m payable prior if those were the numbers.

 

Mike Ashley has made plenty of mistakes, there's no denying that from any party including Ashley himself, but some of the fabrications and exaggerations in debt management on here seem absurd to me. It's one thing to talk numbers and another to talk specific things that he has done that have increased the debt. Sacking Allaryce and undermining Keegan are two that immediately spring to mind because both resulted in multi million dollar payouts. The latter of course contributed to the subsequent relegation so a sizable portion of blame lays with Ashley for that. That did of course lead to further losses with a sharp decline in television and prize money. A large amount of that was offset by players sales which netted in excess of 30 million pounds. Those sales and the release of other highly paid players resulted in a sizable drop in our total wage bill.

 

I estimate the Ashley mistakes at around 40m (mainly relegation 25-30m and settlements for KK and fat Sam and his crew).

 

Wages at the hight water mark were 68% of income. Not totally club destroying but getting there. I'm guessing it's around 50-55% for now (till we get rid of Smith and argualbly Guti or Collo both rumoured to be on 60-70k bracket).

 

Next summer will be the time for the next rationalisation is my guess. Move Guti on.

[Kitman 2188]

The debt became payable, it wasn't suddenly created. So it would have been 124m debt with 70m payable prior if those were the numbers.

 

Mike Ashley has made plenty of mistakes, there's no denying that from any party including Ashley himself, but some of the fabrications and exaggerations in debt management on here seem absurd to me. It's one thing to talk numbers and another to talk specific things that he has done that have increased the debt. Sacking Allaryce and undermining Keegan are two that immediately spring to mind because both resulted in multi million dollar payouts. The latter of course contributed to the subsequent relegation so a sizable portion of blame lays with Ashley for that. That did of course lead to further losses with a sharp decline in television and prize money. A large amount of that was offset by players sales which netted in excess of 30 million pounds. Those sales and the release of other highly paid players resulted in a sizable drop in our total wage bill.

 

I estimate the Ashley mistakes at around 40m (mainly relegation 25-30m and settlements for KK and fat Sam and his crew).

 

Wages at the hight water mark were 68% of income. Not totally club destroying but getting there. I'm guessing it's around 50-55% for now (till we get rid of Smith and argualbly Guti or Collo both rumoured to be on 60-70k bracket).

 

Next summer will be the time for the next rationalisation is my guess. Move Guti on.

 

Dunno what Smith's on but he's not worth it. He'd be my top priority to sell (in the summer) if his wages are exorbitant. He's about to turn 30, and still has the best part of 2 seasons to run on his contract.

[Park Life 70]

The debt became payable, it wasn't suddenly created. So it would have been 124m debt with 70m payable prior if those were the numbers.

 

Mike Ashley has made plenty of mistakes, there's no denying that from any party including Ashley himself, but some of the fabrications and exaggerations in debt management on here seem absurd to me. It's one thing to talk numbers and another to talk specific things that he has done that have increased the debt. Sacking Allaryce and undermining Keegan are two that immediately spring to mind because both resulted in multi million dollar payouts. The latter of course contributed to the subsequent relegation so a sizable portion of blame lays with Ashley for that. That did of course lead to further losses with a sharp decline in television and prize money. A large amount of that was offset by players sales which netted in excess of 30 million pounds. Those sales and the release of other highly paid players resulted in a sizable drop in our total wage bill.

 

I estimate the Ashley mistakes at around 40m (mainly relegation 25-30m and settlements for KK and fat Sam and his crew).

 

Wages at the hight water mark were 68% of income. Not totally club destroying but getting there. I'm guessing it's around 50-55% for now (till we get rid of Smith and argualbly Guti or Collo both rumoured to be on 60-70k bracket).

 

Next summer will be the time for the next rationalisation is my guess. Move Guti on.

 

Dunno what Smith's on but he's not worth it. He'd be my top priority to sell (in the summer) if his wages are exorbitant. He's about to turn 30, and still has the best part of 2 seasons to run on his contract.

 

He's on a fair whack, one of the Fat Sam mad signings (rumoured to be 60-65k). Bet Tiote is on 30k.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

The debt became payable, it wasn't suddenly created. So it would have been 124m debt with 70m payable prior if those were the numbers.

 

Mike Ashley has made plenty of mistakes, there's no denying that from any party including Ashley himself, but some of the fabrications and exaggerations in debt management on here seem absurd to me. It's one thing to talk numbers and another to talk specific things that he has done that have increased the debt. Sacking Allaryce and undermining Keegan are two that immediately spring to mind because both resulted in multi million dollar payouts. The latter of course contributed to the subsequent relegation so a sizable portion of blame lays with Ashley for that. That did of course lead to further losses with a sharp decline in television and prize money. A large amount of that was offset by players sales which netted in excess of 30 million pounds. Those sales and the release of other highly paid players resulted in a sizable drop in our total wage bill.

 

I estimate the Ashley mistakes at around 40m (mainly relegation 25-30m and settlements for KK and fat Sam and his crew).

 

Wages at the hight water mark were 68% of income. Not totally club destroying but getting there. I'm guessing it's around 50-55% for now (till we get rid of Smith and argualbly Guti or Collo both rumoured to be on 60-70k bracket).

 

Next summer will be the time for the next rationalisation is my guess. Move Guti on.

 

Dunno what Smith's on but he's not worth it. He'd be my top priority to sell (in the summer) if his wages are exorbitant. He's about to turn 30, and still has the best part of 2 seasons to run on his contract.

 

He's on a fair whack, one of the Fat Sam mad signings (rumoured to be 60-65k). Bet Tiote is on 30k.

 

Smith should be gone in January never mind end of season. I reckon he still has enough standing in the game as a player (wrongly) for there to be the odd manager who'd take him, so accept a token fee for him and get his wages of our back and his immobile legs off the pitch! The only problem (assuming Hughton would consider selling) is whether he's the type of player who'd rather sit and not play on a fortune or drop his wages somewhat to get regular games elsewhere.

[Asprilla 96]

The only problem (assuming Hughton would consider selling) is whether he's the type of player who'd rather sit and not play on a fortune or drop his wages somewhat to get regular games elsewhere.

I think we can take a wild guess....

[Papa Lazaru 0]

The only problem (assuming Hughton would consider selling) is whether he's the type of player who'd rather sit and not play on a fortune or drop his wages somewhat to get regular games elsewhere.

I think we can take a wild guess....

 

I don't know in his case. I'm not saying he'd drop down to a fraction of what he's on, but i think he may be one of the few players out there who'd rather be playing on less money than sitting about doing nowt. I hope he is, because he shouldn't be getting any more games for us unless we're really stretched.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Papa Lazaru

[ewerk 26394]

He does seem like an honest guy, shite footballer, but honest.

[Asprilla 96]

The only problem (assuming Hughton would consider selling) is whether he's the type of player who'd rather sit and not play on a fortune or drop his wages somewhat to get regular games elsewhere.

I think we can take a wild guess....

 

I don't know in his case. I'm not saying he'd drop down to a fraction of what he's on, but i think he may be one of the few players out there who'd rather be playing on less money than sitting about doing nowt. I hope he is, because he shouldn't be getting any more games for us unless we're really stretched.

I think the line traditionally used is "going to stay and battle for my place...."

 

We'll see. £6m and £60k a week for a "striker" who hasn't scored a single goal has to be our worst ever signing pound for pound.....

[Papa Lazaru 0]

The only problem (assuming Hughton would consider selling) is whether he's the type of player who'd rather sit and not play on a fortune or drop his wages somewhat to get regular games elsewhere.

I think we can take a wild guess....

 

I don't know in his case. I'm not saying he'd drop down to a fraction of what he's on, but i think he may be one of the few players out there who'd rather be playing on less money than sitting about doing nowt. I hope he is, because he shouldn't be getting any more games for us unless we're really stretched.

I think the line traditionally used is "going to stay and battle for my place...."

 

We'll see. £6m and £60k a week for a "striker" who hasn't scored a single goal has to be our worst ever signing pound for pound.....

 

He's probably up there finacially speaking, but the Luques and Marcelino's of the world are far worse! I actually like the guy in terms of he gives it 100% every match and probably did along with Nolan and Harper help Hughton restore order, fight and morale to this club. But the problem was always going to be that he is not capable enough for the prem and whilst i admire his wholehearted attitude and committment that doesn't mean you dive in and concede stupid freekicks and penalties, as we'll see whan we watch Tiote show how to play the DM role properly.