Rob W 0 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I see Red Bull were issuing team orders to keep Webber in his place - And?? Team orders are no longer illegal you know? odd "sport" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 I see Red Bull were issuing team orders to keep Webber in his place - And?? Team orders are no longer illegal you know? odd "sport" Rob W in 'missing the point' shocker once again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14143 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 He's on a football forum. You'd think he'd understand the concept of team sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 2934 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I stand to be corrected but I'm pretty sure that Ferrari & McLaren are the only two car manufacturers who have been born out of a racing team rather than the other way around. Lotus & Maserati. You're right about Maserati but not about Lotus. Lotus Engineering was founded in 1952. Team Lotus was created 2 years later. *Cough* Lotus Engineering was a firm founded to modify vehicles into racing vehicles, they didn't actually manufacture their own cars. This old Austin (1937 Austin &) was to be the basis of the first Lotus, the Mark 1. Only the chassis and drivetrain were retained as Colin fashioned a totally new body and modified the engine and suspension. The Austin was modified to be a trials car, a very English auto competition of driving cars through all sorts of terrain against time. Many of the construction techniques were those that Colin had learned while studying aircraft construction at school. Two trials were entered in the spring of 1948 and the Mark 1 Lotus scored its first two class wins. Colin continued to develop and modify the Mark 1. First larger wheels and tires were fitted and the front beam axle was split and hinged in the centered to provide independent front suspension. However with the coming of late spring work on the Mark 1 tapered off to benefit of Colin's studies. By the end of the year 1947 Colin Chapman had completed his engineering studies and officially attained B.Sc.(Eng). By now Colin was quite familiar with the short comings of the Mark 1 and the construction of a Mark 2 appealed to him to eliminate those inadequacies. Work had only begun on the new car when Colin enrolled in military service in the RAF, where he learned to fly. He became even more intrigued by airplanes, specifically, in their flight and engineering. It was to be an important experience for this budding engineer. During his leaves Colin would return to the lock-up garage behind Hazel's home to work on the Mark 2. At times Hazel began to resent the attention the new car was getting. Colin had little time for dates, instead, before rushing back to camp, he would present her with a job list that had to be completed before Colin's next leave. The Mark 2 was completed by late 1948. The speed and performance of the Mark 2 further enthused Colin's interest in motor sport, however this was not until a 1172cc Ford 10 engine had replaced the worn Ford 8 engine. http://www.lotusespritworld.com/EHistory/LotusHistory.html Lotus Mark I (1948): Austin 7 based carLotus Mark II (1949–1950): Ford-powered trials car Lotus Mark III (1951): 750 cc formula car Lotus Mark IV (1952): Trials car Lotus Mark V (1952 2): 750 cc formula car—never built Lotus Mark VI (1953–1955): The first "production" racer—about 100 built Lotus Seven (1957–1970): Classic open sports car, a minimalist machine designed to manoeuvre a racing circuit and nothing else. The rights to the Seven were sold in 1973 to Caterham Cars, who continue to produce it today. Updated versions of this 1957 design are also produced by other specialty firms, including Westfield Sportscars and Donkervoort. Originally the number seven was applied to a Riley-powered Formula 2 car, but the vehicle was never completed in its original form, finally emerging instead as the Clairmonte Special, a two-seat sports car powered by a Lea-Francis engine. Lotus Mark VIII (1954): sports racer Lotus Mark IX (1955): sports racer, based on Eight Lotus Mark X (1955): sports racer, a more powerful Eight Lotus Eleven (1956–1957): sports racer Lotus 12 (1956–1957): Formula Two and Formula One racecar Lotus 13: Designation not used Lotus 14 (1957–1963): First production street car—the Elite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Cars So infact Lotus manufactured road vehicles were born out of the racing team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Apologies, you're right Sammy. I was clouding judgement by fact that they created two seperate companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 2934 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Apologies, you're right Sammy. I was clouding judgement by fact that they created two seperate companies. No problems there Craig, you had me worried for a moment. My recollections when I posted was from some reading on Brabham and how by not moving into sports car production his racing manufacturing company inevitably folded and the writer compared it to Lotus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Apologies, you're right Sammy. I was clouding judgement by fact that they created two seperate companies. No problems there Craig, you had me worried for a moment. My recollections when I posted was from some reading on Brabham and how by not moving into sports car production his racing manufacturing company inevitably folded and the writer compared it to Lotus. The Brabham team was fucked over by one Bernie Ecclestone IMO. The bloke lost total interest in running the team in the late 80s and even failed to enter them into the 1988 championship. He flogged it off to Alfa who quickly lobbed the 'hot potato' onto someone else who ended up being done for tax fraud. The team 'fell' into the ownership of Middlebridge who were even more corrupt than the previous fella. When it finally folded in 1992 prison sentences were handed out. That said, they were positvely angellic compared to the Andrea Moda team. But the start of the rot was down to Bernie. Whilst he, Charlie Whiting & Herbie Blash got excited at the prospect of working for FISA, they completely neglected part of the sport's heritage IMO. Criminal what they allowed the Brabham team to become... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 2934 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 What BE did to Brabham (and his regard towards the heritage of his empire) is criminal but I was referring more to this period of Brabham. Motor Racing Developments Ltd., commonly known as Brabham, was a British racing car manufacturer and Formula One racing team. Founded in 1960 by two Australians, driver Jack Brabham and designer Ron Tauranac, the team won four drivers' and two constructors' world championships in its 30-year Formula One history. Jack Brabham's 1966 drivers' championship remains the only such achievement using a car bearing the driver's own name.In the 1960s, Brabham was the world's largest manufacturer of open wheel racing cars for sale to customer teams, and had built more than 500 cars by 1970. During this period, teams using Brabham cars won championships in Formula Two and Formula Three and competed in the Indianapolis 500. Jack Brabham intended to retire at the end of the 1969 season and sold his share in the team to Tauranac. However, Rindt's late decision to remain with Lotus meant that Brabham drove for another year. Tauranac, an engineer at heart, started to feel his Formula One budget of around £100,000 was a gamble he could not afford to take on his own and began to look around for an experienced business partner. He sold the company for £100,000 at the end of 1971 to British businessman Bernie Ecclestone, Jochen Rindt's former manager and erstwhile owner of the Connaught team. Tauranac stayed on to design the cars and run the factory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 Parr says diffuser controversy not bad for Formula 1 Williams chairman Adam Parr believes controversies like the one over the blown diffuser rules only increase the interest in Formula 1. The British Grand Prix was somewhat overshadowed by the row over the rules on diffusers, with the teams eventually agreeing to return to the original regulations as established before the Silverstone race. Although the controversy was criticised by senior F1 figures who believed it was hurting Formula 1's image, Parr denied it was bad for the sport. He actually thinks these rows generate more interest and highlight how competitive Formula 1 is. "I hate when everyone says it's really bad for the sport," said Parr. "A couple of years ago a really serious journalist sat in front of me talking about something else, and said, 'this is really bad stuff...' I said yes, it's really bad stuff, so why aren't you covering darts in Wales? "The fact is, it's the intensity of the competition, the brutality of it, and the fact that it's across so many dimensions, including the rules, the money, the politics, as well as the little bit that happens on the track. That's what makes Formula 1 so compelling. "Whether it's good or not I don't know, it's just the way that it is. Nobody's ever said to me, 'Adam, we'd like to interview you but please don't say anything controversial'." Parr also believes the fact that rules changed in the middle of the season should be 'irrelevant' and he feels no sympathy for the teams hurt by the changes. He hit out at teams who protested the likes of Williams in 2009 because of the double diffusers used that year. "It's irrelevant. I have no sympathy," he said. "It really annoys me that I sat in Paris, in the Court of Appeal, with certain teams saying 'these cars are dangerously fast.' Some plonker put in his affidavit, 'this car is dangerously fast.' "This is a person who is famous for making fast cars, continued to make fast cars and I've never heard such drivel. Anyway, my point is this: do they say 'well, poor old Williams and Toyota and Brawn, they've spent all this money developing the double diffuser, their whole car is built around it, we must let them have it for 2009 and then we'll change it? Like hell they did. "They protested in Melbourne, they protested us in Malaysia and then they went to court in Paris. So it's bullshit. There's a couple of things that really irritate me and rank hypocrisy is one of them." Source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93059 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 He's on a football forum. You'd think he'd understand the concept of team sport. maybe if they changed cars regularly - but they play on their own don't they would anyone accept "team orders" in the 100m?? or in golf?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14143 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 He's on a football forum. You'd think he'd understand the concept of team sport. maybe if they changed cars regularly - but they play on their own don't they would anyone accept "team orders" in the 100m?? or in golf?? Yes. Yes, that is absolutely the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Castell 0 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 He's on a football forum. You'd think he'd understand the concept of team sport. maybe if they changed cars regularly - but they play on their own don't they would anyone accept "team orders" in the 100m?? or in golf?? 100 metres=You run in a straight line, in about 10 seconds. How can you cut across 3 lanes to block someone in that time? So that's a stupid example. Golf=Apart from the Ryder/Solheim Cup, golf is a single person sport whereby you will be disqualified if you caught/hidden the ball or you kicked it away from the hole. Again, a stupid example. The team part of Formula 1 comes from all the designers, pit crew and suchlike who create the best car they can. They have the constructers championship to aim for. It is an odd sport whereby it can be both a single person sport, in that the drivers compete against each other, but the teams aim for a different prize, the constructers championship so it can be seen as a team sport. If you were the head of Ferrari, you'd want to win the constructers championship, and if your driver wins the drivers' championship, then brilliant. If you were Alonso, all you really care about is having a brilliant car that you can win the drivers' championship with, which will help Ferrari win their prize. Having said all that, I've never been a fan of such team orders and would rather all the drivers go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 He's on a football forum. You'd think he'd understand the concept of team sport. maybe if they changed cars regularly - but they play on their own don't they would anyone accept "team orders" in the 100m?? or in golf?? It's a team sport first and an individual sport second. But not surprisingly you still haven't worked that concept out Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 team? so they kiss the badge and work for each other I don't think so......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 today's "times" reckons Bernie faces $ 40mm bribe charges in Jormany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Bernie Ecclestone in Formula 1 bribe probe - Beeb Formula 1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone has been named by prosecutors in Germany as allegedly bribing a former banker during the sale of the sport in 2006. Gerhard Gribkowsky, in charge of the sale of BayernLB's stake in F1, stands accused of taking a $44m (£27m) bribe. In return, prosecutors allege, Mr Ecclestone received $41.4m in commissions from the bank, as well as a large payment to a family trust. Mr Ecclestone said he expects to be cleared of any wrongdoing. A court will now decide whether Mr Gribkowsky will stand trial on the charges. The allegations revolve around the sale of BayernLB's stake in Formula 1 to private equity group CVC Capital Partners, which still owns the commercial rights to the sport. CVC said it had no knowledge of any alleged payments to Mr Gribkowsky. The firm bought majority control of F1 from Bernie Ecclestone's family trusts and a group of investment banks. Mr Ecclestone remains F1's chief executive and retains a large shareholding in the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Hardly news, is it Rob? It's just official now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6321 Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 team? so they kiss the badge and work for each other I don't think so......................... They work for the team, not each other... honestly Rob, get with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 corruption spreads from the top..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14143 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 The more periods you add, the truer your point becomes......................................................................... ................................................................................ ........................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Ahhhh - but you know I'm right dear boy - a sick "sport" run by sick and corrupt people but then football is a sick sport run by sick and corrupt people 'n aalll TBH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Castell 0 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Funny how you bang on about how much you hate F1 Rob W[aldorf], but you're probably the biggest poster on the thread. From what I can gather, you're an older man, so surely you don't have much time to waste going on and on about something you claim to hate before you expire. Unless you need to spend what little time you have on this earth chatting shit about something you despise yourself for secretly liking. I'm guessing you have Captain Darling levels of self-loathing going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth Operator 10 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Take a bow Lewis, if u win from here it'll be class, fully deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Class race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEADMAN 0 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 nice to see lewis win again the nurburgring is famous in gran turismo hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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