Shepherd Praises Ashley...McKeag Jr has a pop

[NJS 4030]

I never even realised Gordom McKeag was dead.

 

For what its worth they were small-minded men but its not as if other clubs were any different - comparing them with the Moores which LM has done in the past is ridiculous considering their relative wealth.

 

No club thought of "exploiting the fanbase" to any great extent as nobody bought strips and matchday/TV income was peanuts. The richer clubs were only marginally so and the secret of success was always good management combined with that marginal weatlh differential. The idea that McKeag or Seymour could have "backed their managers" without recourse to personal wealth and with no such thing as the easy credit of the last 20 years pre 2008 is nonsense.

[Craig 6368]

Couple of pieces written on McKeag after he died. One by McNally, the other from the Chronicle:

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_20051002/ai_n15646225/

 

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north-east-news/evening-chronicle-news/tm_objectid=16197049&method=full&siteid=50081&headline=tributes-for-ex-toon-chief-name_page.html

[McFaul 35]

Clive McKeag was a mate of my dad's when he worked in Gosforth - a good lad by all accounts and definitely left the running of the club to Gordon.

 

For all the faults that McKeag had in the 80s (and I agree there was plenty!), he was first and foremost a Newcastle United fan who ultimately wanted the best for the club but didn't see the vision that John Hall could. It's easy to forget that they were running the shop when there was little money in the game - NUFC was running in debt and Sky TV and their money was a distant dream. The only liquidating assets we had as a club were the players and as businessmen, they could bring little to the table - they ran a reasonable sized solicitor firm and certainly didn't have the millions that Hall and Ashley have had at their disposal.

 

It wasn't widely reported but there was no bigger fan of what SJH & Keegan achieved than McKeag and he was there every home game til the day he died - a fan of NUFC to the end.

 

Can we truly say the same about the incumbent owner and/or MD?? Can we fuck!

You say that but he fought tooth and nail to keep the club, till he realised he was in an untenable position. Newcastle averaged 30,000 in 1984 in Division Two third highest in the country, our average attendances were amongst the best in the country, often better than Everton and Tottenham, yet they'd go out and spend £5m on players in one summer, and we'd fucking flog our best players to them. Seymour was chairman in 84, but even so McKeag was his right hand man and they couldn't even give Arthur Cox a new contract after 4 years of steady improvement, after promises were made, so he left as a matter of principle. When the FA Cup draw was ever on there wasn't various football figures on doing it, it was always McKeag and that fat cunt Bert Millichip, and I used to snarl at the telly. We were a disgrace of a club and he was the main one to blame.

 

He was a clueless disgrace of a chairman, him and the likes of Stan Seymour are the reason we stagnated from the 50's to the 90's, and saw the likes of NOTTINGHAM FUCKING FOREST leave us in their trail with a fanbase not even a quarter the size. None of them had a clue how to run a football club.

 

I'm not defending what he did, but I think it was out of ignorance rather than anything malicious. You're right, they were wrong to promise something to Cox and then renage on it. But to have carried on and offered what they'd have promised would have been doubly wrong.

 

The summer you're referring to when we spend £5m on players and flogged our best players to Spurs and Everton is 1988 I presume and you're referring to Gascoigne & McDonald specifically? It's easy to say with hindsight that it was a fuck-up but at the time there was a hell of a lot of belief that summer IIRC. Gazza was going and there was nothing we were going to be able to do to stop that. Watching the Piers Morgan thing the other night should cement that fact in your mind - whatever he asked for, Spurs would give him but then Scholar had more money than sense and just kept emptying his pockets time and time again. Wasn't long before he was having to sell the club to Sugar and Venables (kind of)...

 

But back to the summer of '88 and with us, we bought Beasant (at the time considered one of the best keepers in England who'd just captained Wimbledon to FA Cup victory), Robertson who was McFaul's long admired vision as a replacement for Pedro, Andy Thorn & John Hendrie. Neutrals were tipping us to push higher than the 8th we'd achieved the previous year and maybe even chance a cup. But it didn't work - Beasant was a disaster, Thorn average & Robertson only a shadow of the player he was in Scotland. The only bright spark was Hendrie who showed glimpses here and there but in a team in disarray, was often suppressed.

 

McKeag may have backed those purchases, but I can't blame him for them - they were footballing decisions that McFaul got wrong. And that summer the club re-invested the money from the sales of Gascoigne, McDonald &Goddard (who was the biggest loss of all) and some....

 

Did they have a clue how to run a club? Nope, not really but I believe that his heart was in the right place and as a fan, he wanted the best for the club. A stubborn man would have looked at what SJH achieved and suggested that it was easy now that Sky money was at the table - McKeag never did though, he was simply delighted that his club were where they ought to be.

We could've done everything to stop Gazza leaving, he and Beardsley both said they'd have stayed had an ounce of ambition been shown, all of Beasant, Thorn and Robertson were disasters, and Hendrie fucked off after 5 months to Leeds. The 8th place finish should've been enough to entice them to keep the best players and build on what we already had. Not lose our best three players and have a punt at replacing them with four from lesser clubs. At the end of the day, that season would've seen us average 31 or 32,000 had we had a reasonable season. It would as well, the average gate when we were bottom with three games to go was an astonishing 26,000 four wins all season, the last three games had 14,000 there each time cos we were as good as down which effected it, but that level of support shows you what it would've been had they had a tiny bit ambition in holding our best players and building on it, but it was the same old story.

 

As for his attitude to what SJH did, what else could he say, "well we came 8th but finished below Wimbledon?". He couldn't say anything other.

 

Harsh on Hendrie that like... he stayed until the following summer.

 

Talk of Gazza staying was cloud-cuckoo land man. There's no way in god's green earth we could compete with what Spurs were willing to pay him. Ferguson has said that, while he was pissed off Gazza signed for Spurs whilst he was on holiday, there was no way he'd have paid the salary that Spurs were willing to pay.

 

As for his attitude to SJH, he could have easily taken the view that Hall only succeeded because he took over at the right time (i.e. when Sky came on the scene)... but he never did. For all his dreadful decisions (and there were plenty as I've already conceded), he was a dignified bloke who was first and foremost an NUFC fan.

I remember there was a story in the Chronicle that we were prepared to pay him £3000 a week to stay but McKeag vetoed it at the last minute. He was only on 2 and a half at Spurs, of course we could've kept him. John Barnes was the first £10000 a week man at the same time.

 

You can be as dignified as you like, but to me dignity isn't keeping hold of something you have absolutely no idea how to make a success of.

[McFaul 35]

Our fans 20-25 years ago were far more radical, animated, more passionate, and more opinonated than they are now and I'd go as far to say the depth of feeling against McKeag, was at least the anti Ashley levels now, perhaps even more. You used to see KILL MCKEAG written on pavements everywhere. He was a catastrophic chairman of Newcastle United, easily in the 10 worst people in our history, I'd put him number 2 actually.

[Craig 6368]

At the time he went he still had a year to run on his current contract. We offered him £3000 and a contract that ran until June 1992 - he turned it down.

 

As NJS suggested, we couldn't afford any more than that so the club made the decision to flog him and replace.

 

This was the days before the Bosman ruling so in theory we could have made him play out the last year of his contract and still receive a fee for him (most likely it would have gone to tribunal). Gazza's mind was away from Tyneside long before that £3k a week offer come in though. The game at Derby where he infamously kicked the bucket after being sent off sticks to mind....

[McFaul 35]

At the time he went he still had a year to run on his current contract. We offered him £3000 and a contract that ran until June 1992 - he turned it down.

 

As NJS suggested, we couldn't afford any more than that so the club made the decision to flog him and replace.

 

This was the days before the Bosman ruling so in theory we could have made him play out the last year of his contract and still receive a fee for him (most likely it would have gone to tribunal). Gazza's mind was away from Tyneside long before that £3k a week offer come in though. The game at Derby where he infamously kicked the bucket after being sent off sticks to mind....

The offer was removed he never had a chance to sign. They were more interested in the fuckin stand. Like I say if the club had the same ambition as much smaller clubs than us like Nottingham Forest, Beardsley and Gascoigne wouldn't have went anywhere. No one ever left Forest in the 80's who was top notch other than Gary Birtles and that was cos Cloughie knew he was fleecing Man Utd. The likes of Stuart Pearce and Des Walker would've walked in any team in the world at the time but no Forest wanted to build the club around the likes of them and Nigel Clough, which is why they were always top 4.

[Craig 6368]

Christ Stevie the stand had already been financed by then. Not withstanding the fact its replacement was mandatory else we'd never have got the safety certificate to be able to play there.

 

With regards to the situation with Forest I think a lot rests on who the respective managers were at that time. There's no way Clough would have agreed to any of those going at that point in time and the chairman of Forest knew the value of Brian Clough.

[Pacinofan 0]

I heard Gazza a few weeks ago saying that Kenny Dalglish had wanted to sign him but wanted him to wait a year. Gazza said he couldn't wait a year.

[McFaul 35]

Christ Stevie the stand had already been financed by then. Not withstanding the fact its replacement was mandatory else we'd never have got the safety certificate to be able to play there.

 

With regards to the situation with Forest I think a lot rests on who the respective managers were at that time. There's no way Clough would have agreed to any of those going at that point in time and the chairman of Forest knew the value of Brian Clough.

I knew you'd say that the second paragraph, it was the whole club ethic, obviously Clough was a figurehead, but you can't blame McFaul. The stand cost £4.5m if you remember rightly, the Beardsley money didn't pay it all off.

[Craig 6368]

Christ Stevie the stand had already been financed by then. Not withstanding the fact its replacement was mandatory else we'd never have got the safety certificate to be able to play there.

 

With regards to the situation with Forest I think a lot rests on who the respective managers were at that time. There's no way Clough would have agreed to any of those going at that point in time and the chairman of Forest knew the value of Brian Clough.

I knew you'd say that the second paragraph, it was the whole club ethic, obviously Clough was a figurehead, but you can't blame McFaul. The stand cost £4.5m if you remember rightly, the Beardsley money didn't pay it all off.

 

But as I've said earlier, we re-invested the money for Gascoigne (and some) that very same summer. I stand to be corrected on this but I also believe there was a degree of funding provided for clubs that had to replace wooden structures in English football grounds too.

 

Gascoigne's sale certainly didn't fund the Milburn stand.

[McFaul 35]

Christ Stevie the stand had already been financed by then. Not withstanding the fact its replacement was mandatory else we'd never have got the safety certificate to be able to play there.

 

With regards to the situation with Forest I think a lot rests on who the respective managers were at that time. There's no way Clough would have agreed to any of those going at that point in time and the chairman of Forest knew the value of Brian Clough.

I knew you'd say that the second paragraph, it was the whole club ethic, obviously Clough was a figurehead, but you can't blame McFaul. The stand cost £4.5m if you remember rightly, the Beardsley money didn't pay it all off.

 

But as I've said earlier, we re-invested the money for Gascoigne (and some) that very same summer. I stand to be corrected on this but I also believe there was a degree of funding provided for clubs that had to replace wooden structures in English football grounds too.

 

Gascoigne's sale certainly didn't fund the Milburn stand.

No you're right but it was coppers £100k or something. If it wasn't for them worrying about the stand costs, we could've kept Gazza, and invested in new players. It's all they used to go on about. Gazza saw Waddle leave in 85, Beardsley in 87, and so did the fans. We're not talking about ordinary players here. It's the equivalent and in no way am I overstating this, of Man Utd selling Ronaldo, Rooney and Vidic in three years with inadequate replacements. I appreciate your family might have links to W.G.McKeag as it used to say on match tickets, but he was a cunt and a draconian cancer within our club.

[Craig 6368]

The stand HAD to be replaced. The Popplewell Inquiry saw to that.

 

And as I've said before, the replacement of the stand had no bearing on Gazza (or Beardsley or Waddle for that matter) leaving NUFC. If Bradford hadn't happened and we'd left the stand as it was for another 10 years or so they'd still have left.

 

Having started following NUFC in 1985 like you did and knowing that we'd had decades of promised ground development that never happened, you should be patently aware it only appeared on the agenda in the late 80s because it absolutely had to.

[McFaul 35]

The stand HAD to be replaced. The Popplewell Inquiry saw to that.

 

And as I've said before, the replacement of the stand had no bearing on Gazza (or Beardsley or Waddle for that matter) leaving NUFC. If Bradford hadn't happened and we'd left the stand as it was for another 10 years or so they'd still have left.

 

Having started following NUFC in 1985 like you did and knowing that we'd had decades of promised ground development that never happened, you should be patently aware it only appeared on the agenda in the late 80s because it absolutely had to.

You can't say Beardsley wasn't sold to fund the stand, it's just an impossibility to say that. I know it needed doing me dad used to take me and me sister in the West Stand as it was in my first few years at the match, and it was basically all wooden, all over it. When we used to get a corner everyone used to stamp their feet and it sounded like a roaring train. Was a potential Bradford waiting to happen, would've been even worse in there than Bradford as it was a 15 foot drop to the Paddock, so I'm aware it needed doing, but Forest managed to fund their stand and retain their best players. There was a lot of missing money from NUFC imo, and it wasn't just McKeag there was a whole host of hangers on, and drab old ambitionless men in control which was as it had been since the 1950's when we were the best supported club in the country.

[LeazesMag 0]

I never even realised Gordom McKeag was dead.

 

For what its worth they were small-minded men but its not as if other clubs were any different - comparing them with the Moores which LM has done in the past is ridiculous

 

what ?

 

Are you on drugs ?

 

Oh, you're an Ashley apologist aren't you, like those other fools and hypocrites on skunkers.

[LeazesMag 0]

no reply from Toonpack again.

 

This is becoming more regular now.....

 

I apologise Leazes but I was on a plane (nowhere exotic sadly and work not play).

 

Regarding your question, I believe I do understand, here goes:

 

Taking money out whilst in charge is bad but making money on a profit from sale is fine, yes ??

 

Well that's how I see it.

 

How do you see it ??

 

most supporters would be happy to see the club win on the pitch, at the time. Your chums on skunkers, and the massively expanded fanbase tapped by the previous regime, were quite happy to make their trips to the San Siro, Nou Camp etc.

 

Of course, they only said so at the time, but may have been telling porkies

 

I believe I asked you a few weeks ago, if you sell your house [or a business] would you sell it for the same price you paid for it ?

 

Sammynb has also asked you a question which you have ignored [ I think]

 

You also said you would "review Mike Ashley after the 1st September deadline", and now say he is "recouping" . So, what exactly did you think he was doing before 1st September ?

[LeazesMag 0]

I'll read the initial post tomorrow.........but, this exchange between Stevie and Craig....while it may be true McKeag had the good of the club at heart [unlike Ashley who is putting Sports Direct 1st, 2nd and last] it is absolutely true that he was small time and the club could and should have easily persuaded Waddle, Beardsley and Gazza to say. They all left for the same reasons that the other top players have left the club recently.

 

Wilie McFaul tried his best to make the most of a shit set of cards, the same as all the managers did back themn, and as Pardew is doing now.

Edited November 15, 2011 by LeazesMag

[sniffer 0]

It is a load of bollocks to say ever McKeag had the good of the club at heart. He was a money grabbing twat as well. The difference is that he wasn't grabbing quite as much as Ashley. When they say it isn't about the money, its always about the money.

 

Newcastle have always been a selling club quite happy to maintain the disparity between us and the teams with any ambition at all. I think this is because, like Ashley, they can rely on fans to keep turning up no matter how many times you take the piss out of them. At least the likes of McKeag and Westwood weren't quite as open about it as these fucking cockney carpetbaggers. Waddle, Gascoigne and beardsley were just the later players to be sole. Before that you the likes of Robson, Terry Mac, Kennedy. MacDonald, Nattrass list is endless.

 

As for McFaul, buying a forward line of midgets was a recipe for disaster.

[Toonpack 7200]

no reply from Toonpack again.

 

This is becoming more regular now.....

 

I apologise Leazes but I was on a plane (nowhere exotic sadly and work not play).

 

Regarding your question, I believe I do understand, here goes:

 

Taking money out whilst in charge is bad but making money on a profit from sale is fine, yes ??

 

Well that's how I see it.

 

How do you see it ??

 

most supporters would be happy to see the club win on the pitch, at the time. Your chums on skunkers, and the massively expanded fanbase tapped by the previous regime, were quite happy to make their trips to the San Siro, Nou Camp etc.

 

Of course, they only said so at the time, but may have been telling porkies

 

I believe I asked you a few weeks ago, if you sell your house [or a business] would you sell it for the same price you paid for it ?

 

Sammynb has also asked you a question which you have ignored [ I think]

 

You also said you would "review Mike Ashley after the 1st September deadline", and now say he is "recouping" . So, what exactly did you think he was doing before 1st September ?

 

All it needed was a yes or no

 

On the house/business you try and make a profit, and as I said, that's absolutely fine, in my opinion.

[Kitman 2188]

What better way to start your day than an interesting economic debate.......

[McFaul 35]

It is a load of bollocks to say ever McKeag had the good of the club at heart. He was a money grabbing twat as well. The difference is that he wasn't grabbing quite as much as Ashley. When they say it isn't about the money, its always about the money.

 

Newcastle have always been a selling club quite happy to maintain the disparity between us and the teams with any ambition at all. I think this is because, like Ashley, they can rely on fans to keep turning up no matter how many times you take the piss out of them. At least the likes of McKeag and Westwood weren't quite as open about it as these fucking cockney carpetbaggers. Waddle, Gascoigne and beardsley were just the later players to be sole. Before that you the likes of Robson, Terry Mac, Kennedy. MacDonald, Nattrass list is endless.

 

As for McFaul, buying a forward line of midgets was a recipe for disaster.

A rare good point. Hendrie played in the middle sometimes, rather than wide, 5ft7, Robertson probably even smaller, and Mirandinha was an umpa lumpa too. Nar in fact, I agree with all your post even though you're a Yorkshire nobhead, apart from the "we've always been a selling club line", from 1993 to 2006 we were not a selling club by any means.

[Craig 6368]

It is a load of bollocks to say ever McKeag had the good of the club at heart. He was a money grabbing twat as well.

 

Can you quantify that? How much money did he actually grab out of NUFC?

 

BTW I find it remarkable at times that it's often written that it was McKeag's board that sold Waddle & Beardsley. McKeag was on the board when they left, yes but it was under Stan Seymour that they left. I don't think he was even vice chairman at the time. McKeag took over in June 1988 by which point Gazza had already told us to go forth and multiply with our contract offer and was on his way to WHL. And he was the last of the so-called 'crown jewels' to go.

 

That summer we gave Wimbledon £1.5m for Beasant & Thorn, paid £700K for Robertson from Hearts and £500K to Bradford for Hendrie so our total outlay was £2.7m - more than we'd received for Gazza from Spurs so how McKeag can be considered 'money grabbing' in that instance or that Gascoigne was sold to fund the stand is beyond me.

 

The following summer we again spent a good deal on the likes of Quinn, McGhee, Gallacher, Dillon, Fereday & Stimson. Yes some turned out to be utter shite (the latter three) but never-the-less it was funds that had been made available by McKeag's board.

[Monkeys Fist 39254]

What better way to start your day than an interesting economic debate.......

A wank?

[Guest alex]

McKeag Snr had absolutely huge lugs btw.

[McFaul 35]

It is a load of bollocks to say ever McKeag had the good of the club at heart. He was a money grabbing twat as well.

 

Can you quantify that? How much money did he actually grab out of NUFC?

 

BTW I find it remarkable at times that it's often written that it was McKeag's board that sold Waddle & Beardsley. McKeag was on the board when they left, yes but it was under Stan Seymour that they left. I don't think he was even vice chairman at the time. McKeag took over in June 1988 by which point Gazza had already told us to go forth and multiply with our contract offer and was on his way to WHL. And he was the last of the so-called 'crown jewels' to go.

 

That summer we gave Wimbledon £1.5m for Beasant & Thorn, paid £700K for Robertson from Hearts and £500K to Bradford for Hendrie so our total outlay was £2.7m - more than we'd received for Gazza from Spurs so how McKeag can be considered 'money grabbing' in that instance or that Gascoigne was sold to fund the stand is beyond me.

 

The following summer we again spent a good deal on the likes of Quinn, McGhee, Gallacher, Dillon, Fereday & Stimson. Yes some turned out to be utter shite (the latter three) but never-the-less it was funds that had been made available by McKeag's board.

We got £850,000 in from the sales of McDonald and Goddard too.

[LeazesMag 0]

no reply from Toonpack again.

 

This is becoming more regular now.....

 

I apologise Leazes but I was on a plane (nowhere exotic sadly and work not play).

 

Regarding your question, I believe I do understand, here goes:

 

Taking money out whilst in charge is bad but making money on a profit from sale is fine, yes ??

 

Well that's how I see it.

 

How do you see it ??

 

most supporters would be happy to see the club win on the pitch, at the time. Your chums on skunkers, and the massively expanded fanbase tapped by the previous regime, were quite happy to make their trips to the San Siro, Nou Camp etc.

 

Of course, they only said so at the time, but may have been telling porkies

 

I believe I asked you a few weeks ago, if you sell your house [or a business] would you sell it for the same price you paid for it ?

 

Sammynb has also asked you a question which you have ignored [ I think]

 

You also said you would "review Mike Ashley after the 1st September deadline", and now say he is "recouping" . So, what exactly did you think he was doing before 1st September ?

 

All it needed was a yes or no

 

On the house/business you try and make a profit, and as I said, that's absolutely fine, in my opinion.

 

all I asked for was your opinion before September 1st.

 

I don't disagree that when you sell a house you aim to make a profit, so why do you think a business is any different ? Before you reply, with your words of wisdom laced with irrational hatred, consider what price they would have got for a 3rd division club that had spent years in the doldrums, which is where they found it, and a recent history similar to that of Sheff Wed rather than an expanded stadium being one of the best in europe, years of regular european football, a tapped fanbase and one of the biggest turnovers in world football ?

 

Somehow, I think all this will continue to pass you by...