ewerk 26786 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Rayvin said: Gove has just claimed that Brexit has made the UK the most immigration friendly country in the EU EU immigration down to lowest levels in six years. Hate crimes up. British citizens being deported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceCadet 5 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rayvin said: What ideology is it that you think Renton has? I'm not entirely sure I'm not particularly interested either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 I can never quite decide if I hate Gove or Johnson more. It speaks volumes about those two that Hunt isn't even in that equation tbh. May I can't hate anymore. She's too pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 20132 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Rayvin said: What ideology is it that you think Renton has? he's a student of stainedglassist theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18030 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rayvin said: What ideology is it that you think Renton has? Does (s)he know what generation I belong to? Space cadet seems to be a typical Brexiter. Makes bizarre broad sweeping claims about the evils of the EU, displays ignorance as to what it is, then can't provide any evidence or even rationale for their opinions. And then bails out. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18030 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said: he's a student of stainedglassist theory I've graduated tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceCadet 5 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Just now, Rayvin said: I can never quite decide if I hate Gove or Johnson more. It speaks volumes about those two that Hunt isn't even in that equation tbh. May I can't hate anymore. She's too pathetic. The Conservative party are in awful shape, I guess they can thank their lucky stars that momentum are the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceCadet 5 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Renton said: Does (s)he know what generation I belong to? Space cadet seems to be a typical Brexiter. Makes bizarre broad sweeping claims about the evils of the EU, displays ignorance as to what it is, then can't provide any evidence or even rationale for their opinions. And then bails out. Oh well. What the EU is to you and what it is to the majority of us are obviously two different things, otherwise the referendum would have gone your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Just now, SpaceCadet said: The Conservative party are in awful shape, I guess they can thank their lucky stars that momentum are the opposition. You'll get a lot of support for that opinion on here. Although personally I would say that Momentum almost single handedly brought the Tories to their knees last time out, and that if they had someone more competent at the helm they would have a far easier job of things. They function as a media bypass, taking political messages unedited directly to the electorate. If the enthusiasm remains, they should win out in the end. Remember that Labour won the vote share for everyone under 45. Momentum did its job - it was out on the streets in force. And remember it was on the defensive last time out. Had they attacked, we would almost certainly have seen the back of Rudd, if not many others. https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/01/jeremy-corbyns-takeover-is-complete-and-the-tories-are-terrified/ Momentum, a group that did not exist four years ago, has instead succeeded in taking over a party: the leadership and the membership. The NEC changes mean Momentum’s reverse takeover of the Labour party is now complete, and Labour MPs are now its hostages. MPs who complain about hard-left takeover will be told that this is not ‘entryism’ but simple democracy — which it is. Momentum found and inspired thousands to join the Labour party and call the shots. It deserves its victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 1 minute ago, SpaceCadet said: What the EU is to you and what it is to the majority of us are obviously two different things, otherwise the referendum would have gone your way. Referendum result was a lashing out response to the lie of austerity. Or at least there was enough of that mixed up in it to make the difference. Since the Tories have now admitted austerity was ideologically driven bullshit which has been unceremoniously abandoned in an act of pure fear at the outcome of Brexit, I think it's fair to say that 'the majority' you refer to no longer exists in terms of why the damn thing happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 20132 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Referendum result was a lashing out response to the lie of austerity. Or at least there was enough of that mixed up in it to make the difference. Since the Tories have now admitted austerity was ideologically driven bullshit which has been unceremoniously abandoned in an act of pure fear at the outcome of Brexit, I think it's fair to say that 'the majority' you refer to no longer exists in terms of why the damn thing happened. The anti government/anti austerity line is only part of the story. There are plenty of little englanders still out there who would vote the same way if there was another referendum tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: The anti government/anti austerity line is only part of the story. There are plenty of little englanders still out there who would vote the same way if there was another referendum tomorrow. Aye but they wouldn't be enough to win it. Well, saying that, maybe combined with people who now realise they voted the wrong way but have too much pride to change their view, perhaps anything is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 20132 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 though not representative of this board, or any of our echo chambers, there are a lot of CTs in the country. if there was another vote tomorrow, it'd be tight but i'd still give it to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30758 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Depends if da youff get off their arses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: though not representative of this board, or any of our echo chambers, there are a lot of CTs in the country. if there was another vote tomorrow, it'd be tight but i'd still give it to leave. Possibly, but then the Tories are yet to do anything to actually make anyone's lives better - so even though austerity has technically been abandoned, I don't know if many people even notice. The damage it did isn't being reversed. I think if you had a Labour government actually helping people, no way Brexit happens at a repeat vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Alex said: Depends if da youff get off their arses I doubt that mistake would be made a second time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceCadet 5 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 56 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Referendum result was a lashing out response to the lie of austerity. Or at least there was enough of that mixed up in it to make the difference. Since the Tories have now admitted austerity was ideologically driven bullshit which has been unceremoniously abandoned in an act of pure fear at the outcome of Brexit, I think it's fair to say that 'the majority' you refer to no longer exists in terms of why the damn thing happened. The austerity stuff was hilarious Terrific entertainment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18030 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 58 minutes ago, SpaceCadet said: What the EU is to you and what it is to the majority of us are obviously two different things, otherwise the referendum would have gone your way. The EU is what it is, independently of what either of us think it is. But the simple fact that you don't know what the difference between the ECHR and the ECJ highlights you are ignorant about what it is and how it works. As were at least 95% of voters in the referendum I would guess (both sides, and also most politicians). That's the real reason a plebiscite referendum was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30758 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: I doubt that mistake would be made a second time. You'd hope not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, SpaceCadet said: The austerity stuff was hilarious Terrific entertainment So you think that the Tories ditching it as soon as the referendum results were confirmed doesn't suggest that they know it was linked? Curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3275 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 1 hour ago, SpaceCadet said: What the EU is to you and what it is to the majority of us are obviously two different things, otherwise the referendum would have gone your way. No what the EU is does not change, what changes is the perception of it. That perception is formed by knowledge (or ignorance) and bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18030 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, SpaceCadet said: The austerity stuff was hilarious Terrific entertainment Oh, it sounds like you are a cunt. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Alex said: You'd hope not I think lessons have been learned along the lines of "The older generations have utterly fucked us because we didn't care, and we cannot let that happen again" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18030 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: So you think that the Tories ditching it as soon as the referendum results were confirmed doesn't suggest that they know it was linked? Curious. How the fuck has austerity been ditched? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Just now, Renton said: How the fuck has austerity been ditched? Tbf it's not, I just remember a lot of waffle about it being over from May throughout the past two years: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-austerity-brexit-plans-uk-leave-eu-hard-soft-latest-tax-cuts-welfare-benefit-a7787001.html There's been a clear sea change from the Tories on it in terms of narrative since Brexit (and the election). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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