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From the point of view of maintaining the country, this is an absolute disgrace. No one in Labour should have voted against anything that was going to make May's life easier on political principle anyway, but to take us right to the edge of the abyss with no plan whatsoever, and no information suggesting that there is actually any positive outcome from no deal, is irresponsible to the point of surely being criminal. This is major economic harm we're talking about. When this goes through, honestly, I think there should be a political inquisition. 

 

What is also clear, is that Labour's stance on this is making the whole thing even worse. The reason parliament is all over the place is mostly because Corbyn won't wake the fuck up. May can't wake up, she needs to go on with this delusion, but there is nothing compelling Corbyn to do the same. Nothing. He is now another person prepared to throw the country under the bus to win a GE. The thing is, I won't fucking vote for this. Even if my vote was the deciding vote between a Tory government and a Labour one, I wouldn't vote. I am done with supporting this hopeless mess of a political system.

 

None of them give a shit about what is best for the country minus a few principled people across the house - there is no one to rally around to oppose the government because Corbyn refuses to be that man - it's pathetic. Beyond pathetic.

 

It's doubtful now that No Deal will even break the Tories since we seem to have allowed them to manufacture a way to blame everything on the EU - so the only good reason for no deal to happen is now out of the window. Honestly, I'm looking at this and just thinking yeah, maybe I should just fucking leave the country. Maybe I should.

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The tories and the dup have a parliamentary majority - they vote along party lines - it wouldn't have mattered one iota who was opposition leader and given the Hoeys of this world there were no amendments that could have been passed. 

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13 minutes ago, NJS said:

The tories and the dup have a parliamentary majority - they vote along party lines - it wouldn't have mattered one iota who was opposition leader and given the Hoeys of this world there were no amendments that could have been passed. 

 

Enough Tory rebels seem to vote against her, that a Labour leader with an actual plan or point of view could capitalise, but it doesn't matter because the country has no leadership at all. This is the worst kind of 'governing by consensus', it's a collective of people who have no idea what they're doing, no overall strategy or goal, and as such they're voting all over the place with no unified outcome in mind. Hence we get contradictions like yesterday.

 

That is why we'll end up with No Deal. May - and this is fucking unbelievable for me - actually has to win this. She has to. I actually want Theresa May to win now, mostly because it gives me an extra 2 years to escape. That's how abhorrent this has become. She's created an absolute nightmare and has somehow managed to get to a point where I actually support her because, and it depresses me more than anything to say this, Corbyn has utterly failed to take a stand on this and create meaningful opposition to it. Just as Renton and ewerk, to be fair to them, have said for years. Even in the past two months he could have changed the course of this by just fucking standing up for 48% of the country. Corbyn will never be PM - not because he's too left wing, but because he's a fucking coward.

Edited by Rayvin
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12 minutes ago, NJS said:

The tories and the dup have a parliamentary majority - they vote along party lines - it wouldn't have mattered one iota who was opposition leader and given the Hoeys of this world there were no amendments that could have been passed. 

Absolute nonsense. We have a remain parliament. Of course there are the likes of Hoey but there are more in the Tories who still want to remain or see a soft Brexit. The Labour leader has offered absolutely nothing for the opposition or Tory rebels to support.

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1 minute ago, ewerk said:

Absolute nonsense. We have a remain parliament. Of course there are the likes of Hoey but there are more in the Tories who still want to remain or see a soft Brexit. The Labour leader has offered absolutely nothing for the opposition or Tory rebels to support.

No large support for even extending the deadline let alone any kind of remain-ish proposition. 

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10 minutes ago, NJS said:

No large support for even extending the deadline let alone any kind of remain-ish proposition. 

The point is that Corbyn has been sitting on his hands since the referendum offering no fucking alternative. He hasn't tried to bring anyone with him because he doesn't even have a clear position on Brexit. He's literally been standing back watching the whole mess unfold hoping to rule over the ashes of our country post-Brexit. 

If he'd been banging on about a second referendum for the past year then there's a good fucking chance that there would be much more public support for it which would give the option more legitimacy in parliament.

The man is a fucking charlatan and an intellectual pigmy.

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4 minutes ago, ewerk said:

The point is that Corbyn has been sitting on his hands since the referendum offering no fucking alternative. He hasn't tried to bring anyone with him because he doesn't even have a clear position on Brexit. He's literally been standing back watching the whole mess unfold hoping to rule over the ashes of our country post-Brexit. 

If he'd been banging on about a second referendum for the past year then there's a good fucking chance that there would be much more public support for it which would give the option more legitimacy in parliament.

The man is a fucking charlatan and an intellectual pigmy.

 

This is the inevitable truth of it.

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2 minutes ago, NJS said:

Yeah tory MPs would have voted for a second vote if he'd banged on about it a bit. Right. 

 

If he had banged on about it, he could have taken the country with him and moved us for a softer version of Brexit if nothing else. He's added nothing. He's done nothing.

 

Come on man, I was his biggest supporter and even I have to accept that he's been a total waste of space. Worse in fact, he's the very definition of a useful idiot.

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1 minute ago, NJS said:

Yeah tory MPs would have voted for a second vote if he'd banged on about it a bit. Right. 

Tory MPs have voted to hold their own government in contempt, they've voted to remove the negotiating power from the executive, they've voted to reject no deal. Many of them are remain and many would happily throw it back to the public to avoid the problems they're having in their own party but they need political cover and public support gives them that.

Do you really think that Corbyn has played this well?

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5 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

If he had banged on about it, he could have taken the country with him and moved us for a softer version of Brexit if nothing else. He's added nothing. He's done nothing.

 

Come on man, I was his biggest supporter and even I have to accept that he's been a total waste of space. Worse in fact, he's the very definition of a useful idiot.

The softer version of brexit which is official labour policy you mean? 

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7 minutes ago, NJS said:

Yeah tory MPs would have voted for a second vote if he'd banged on about it a bit. Right. 

Do you accept that Corbyn doesn't actually want a second vote and in fact wants a unicorn Brexit. Who was it that first demanded A50 was enacted again? 

 

This is what happens when you end up with a rebel with a sixth former's grasp of politics and economics behind the wheel of the main opposition party. I'm just surprised anyone is surprised. 

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Just now, NJS said:

The softer version of brexit which is official labour policy you mean? 

 

Aye, the one that he has done nothing to pursue or generate any support behind because he's fudged the wording on it so much. That one.

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6 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Tory MPs have voted to hold their own government in contempt, they've voted to remove the negotiating power from the executive, they've voted to reject no deal. Many of them are remain and many would happily throw it back to the public to avoid the problems they're having in their own party but they need political cover and public support gives them that.

Do you really think that Corbyn has played this well?

Jo Johnson voted for none of the "decent" amendments. When it comes to the ones that matter they fall in line. 

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2 minutes ago, NJS said:

The softer version of brexit which is official labour policy you mean? 

Labour's official policy is a fucking fantasy.

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2 minutes ago, NJS said:

Jo Johnson voted for none of the "decent" amendments. When it comes to the ones that matter they fall in line. 

They were non-binding amendments, I wasn't expecting too many Tories to stick their head about a parapet for them.

Edited by ewerk

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1 minute ago, Renton said:

Do you accept that Corbyn doesn't actually want a second vote and in fact wants a unicorn Brexit. Who was it that first demanded A50 was enacted again? 

 

This is what happens when you end up with a rebel with a sixth former's grasp of politics and economics behind the wheel of the main opposition party. I'm just surprised anyone is surprised. 

He's not alone in not wanting a second vote - as I've said on here the assumed result is not a given once a new campaign gets under way. 

 

Also have a look at how Cooper campaigned on a respect the result/end fom platform at the 2017 GE. 

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4 minutes ago, NJS said:

Jo Johnson voted for none of the "decent" amendments. When it comes to the ones that matter they fall in line. 

Also, you didn't answer my simple question. Do you think that Corbyn has played this well?

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5 minutes ago, NJS said:

He's not alone in not wanting a second vote - as I've said on here the assumed result is not a given once a new campaign gets under way. 

 

Also have a look at how Cooper campaigned on a respect the result/end fom platform at the 2017 GE. 

He's not alone. But he clearly is determined to fulfil his lexiter unicorn fantasy, isn't he? He's not motivated to stop this, which might explain his abysmal performance. 

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11 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Also, you didn't answer my simple question. Do you think that Corbyn has played this well?

I think he could have done better but I understand some of his views being shaped by leave area votes which I think as "metropolitan" remainers we underestimate. 

 

Going full on remain/second vote/very soft brexit would have come at a cost - look at how the lib dems were wiped out at the GE and their current standing as evidence. 

 

As I also keep saying, I think there seems to be a simple misunderstanding of parliamentary maths. 

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1 minute ago, Renton said:

He's not alone. But he clearly is determined to fulfil his lexiter unicorn fantasy, isn't he? He's not motivated to stop this, which might explain his abysmal performance. 

Fair comment - but I still maintain he's in a hard position because of the split in labour voters. 

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