Monkeys Fist 39194 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Obviously I cacked myself every time he sneezed for the rest of the winter Is that why you now wash your bedding on a high temperature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 39194 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 It avoids you cos it wouldn't be able to put up with your fucking whingeing if you actually caught it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmag 336 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 Is that why you now wash your bedding on a high temperature? Why is this such an issue?? I always wash ALL bedding on a higher temperature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 39194 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Bedding ..... Issue ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18081 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Because I read an awful lot around the subject and made the decision based on the fact the drug was rushed through, unable to ascertain the long-term effects and he was only 9 months old with an immature immune system. I absolutely wrestled with my conscience about it but I wouldn't dream of giving him a regular flu jab at that age and the "Swine Flu" was a sensationalised variant of regular flu. Yes people died from it but I see people die of "flu" annually - it's not just whipped up into a media frenzy. Obviously I cacked myself every time he sneezed for the rest of the winter but I'm happy with my informed choice at the time. As for missing your flu jab? My grandma had the jab and got rampant flu and she won't ever have it again. We're offered the flu jab every year at work - some years I've had it and some years I've not but am yet to get flu in any form. (Famous last words ) Fair enough, not having a go, it just seems you're being a bit selective about when to take advice from the HPA. I worked with the HPA at the time and no way was the threat sensationalised, that is purely the benefit of hindsight. The bit about infants having immature immune systems sounds Parkyesqe to me as well and doesn't really mean much in reality. If you don't mind me asking, what sources did you use to inform your decision? You probably won't remember now anyway and I'm just curious, is all. Flu jabs don't work against all strains, but the risk/benefit ratio is still worth it, especially for hospital workers with HR who are twats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4017 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 You were born before 1970 so almost certainly have acquired it naturally. People born between 1970 and 1980 (and younger people not vaccinated) are at most risk. That's me btw. Parky's got a lot to answer for. I had both kinds of measles as a young kid but I remember vaccinations for Rubella being brought in - but only for lasses which I think was due to it being very dodgy if caught during pregnancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 27639 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Was there not jabs at school for measles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18081 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Was there not jabs at school for measles? Started 68 I think but coverage wasn't great until MMR much later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmag 336 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 Fair enough, not having a go, it just seems you're being a bit selective about when to take advice from the HPA. I worked with the HPA at the time and no way was the threat sensationalised, that is purely the benefit of hindsight. A bit selective? The bairn has had all of his recommended immunisations to date. Vaccines that have been used for years where the benefits outweigh the potential risks. I made one decision for him not to have something where the long term risks weren't known, and I took that decision as a mother with a little bit of medical knowledge, not as a pharmacologist. The bit about infants having immature immune systems sounds Parkyesqe to me as well and doesn't really mean much in reality. You mentioned a couple of months ago that you have a daughter. How old is she? Do you consider that her immune system is as fully developed as an adult? If you don't mind me asking, what sources did you use to inform your decision? You probably won't remember now anyway and I'm just curious, is all. I genuinely can't remember as it was 4 years ago, but rest assured that it wasn't Wikipedia or Netmums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6098 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Vaccination fights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 39194 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Renton's a braver man than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 About 10 years ago I was going out with a Marketing Director for EMAP who was based at Metro radio. She used to host Metro's box at SJP quite often and I would go along as her charming other. Anyway, one week there was this bloke there who worked for the club during Keegan's first stint and who was a lot of fun and very chatty. He takes an interest in me and asks where I work. When I say GSK, his interest develops and he starts asking loads of questions. He then gets on to MMR and he asks about the relationship with autism. I start to talk in general gems about cause and effect and association etc when he starts quoting the latest article in the Lancet about it at me. At this point he sees my demeanour change as I am about to clam up when he says his name and says 'I'm suing your company, my eldest child has autism and its my belief your vaccine caused it'. It was a tough moment for me. I avoided defending or addressing the science and tried to steer the topic back to football. To his great credit after we had discussed it for about 5 more minutes he changed the subject. The problem is that there are very few if any certainties with clinical science, more degrees of certainty. Good science with strong evidence of cause and effect (or lack of in this case) comes with a probability of error. The field has to balance benefits and harms, there can be iatrogenic effects but these also avoid a level of harm that can be far worse. Public health specialists have a tough job and it doesn't surprise me that parents are scared of these things. They offered us loads of vaccines for Charlotte that aren't routinely offered in the UK and we decided against quite a few of them. Our lass is a Pharm D too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Besty 4 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 You're meant to get 2 needles at school for MMR but I was off for the 2nd and didn't get it, am I going to die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 About 10 years ago I was going out with a Marketing Director for EMAP who was based at Metro radio. She used to host Metro's box at SJP quite often and I would go along as her charming other. Anyway, one week there was this bloke there who worked for the club during Keegan's first stint and who was a lot of fun and very chatty. He takes an interest in me and asks where I work. When I say GSK, his interest develops and he starts asking loads of questions. He then gets on to MMR and he asks about the relationship with autism. I start to talk in general gems about cause and effect and association etc when he starts quoting the latest article in the Lancet about it at me. At this point he sees my demeanour change as I am about to clam up when he says his name and says 'I'm suing your company, my eldest child has autism and its my belief your vaccine caused it'. It was a tough moment for me. I avoided defending or addressing the science and tried to steer the topic back to football. To his great credit after we had discussed it for about 5 more minutes he changed the subject. The problem is that there are very few if any certainties with clinical science, more degrees of certainty. Good science with strong evidence of cause and effect (or lack of in this case) comes with a probability of error. The field has to balance benefits and harms, there can be iatrogenic effects but these also avoid a level of harm that can be far worse. Public health specialists have a tough job and it doesn't surprise me that parents are scared of these things. They offered us loads of vaccines for Charlotte that aren't routinely offered in the UK and we decided against quite a few of them. Our lass is a Pharm D too. We probably shared the same box at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 39194 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 You're meant to get 2 needles at school for MMR but I was off for the 2nd and didn't get it, am I going to die? Yes. Run away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Besty 4 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 We probably shared the same box at the same time. Ooo err. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 39194 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 He'll have fell in if he went after Chez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18081 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 A bit selective? The bairn has had all of his recommended immunisations to date. Vaccines that have been used for years where the benefits outweigh the potential risks. I made one decision for him not to have something where the long term risks weren't known, and I took that decision as a mother with a little bit of medical knowledge, not as a pharmacologist. You mentioned a couple of months ago that you have a daughter. How old is she? Do you consider that her immune system is as fully developed as an adult? I genuinely can't remember as it was 4 years ago, but rest assured that it wasn't Wikipedia or Netmums. Immunology is a massively complicated subject which I'd personally leave to the experts. As far as I am aware, the main problems with immunising young ones is they'll have an inadequate response, not a harmful one. If I was advised to immunise my child, then personally, yes I would. But then I have the advantage of spending months of my life researching this and knowing and trusting my colleagues in epidemiology and public health. I completely understand where you're coming from though and would echo Chez's points about risk/benefit. What really pisses me off in this country with the MMR autism 'controversy' is the media's sensationalism and particularly people like Melanie Philips who have wilfully misrepresented the science in order to create headlines. Its completely irresponsible and its no wonder parents are left fearful and in doubt. In no way is this a criticism of anyone's parenting ability, its the media's fault entirely and look where its got us. This is a guideline I wrote on Measles a few years back BTW, if anyone's interested. Doesn't really work on mobile devices though unfortunately. http://cks.nice.org.uk/measles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4017 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I would quite happliy see Melanie Phillips charged with accessory to manslaughter if such a thing exists for the bloke and anyone else that dies in Wales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmag 336 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 I was listening to a mother on the radio the other day. She has a son who had the MMR vaccine and from that day on behaved differently and was subsequently diagnosed with autism. Her stance was an interesting one in that she absolutely does not believe that "MMR causes autism" but through her own experiences and research has come to a tentative conclusion that maybe some children are born pre-disposed to autism and something in the MMR acts as a trigger to that. It doesn't cause it per se, but it sets off a chain of events which leads to the child developing the condition. She went on to have another child and I think that despite everything she had him immunised also and he has, so far, shown no signs of the condition. She was extremely sensible, eloquent, non-hysterical and analytical and it was quite refreshing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9263 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Why is this such an issue?? I always wash ALL bedding on a higher temperature Why wouldn't people wash bedding on high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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