ChezGiven 0 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I give up. That comment has done for me. I just give up. Some of you guys are in absolute denial about what we're doing because you're so focused on hatred for ISIS. I get the latter but it's the former that's fueling more death on both sides. Then do some reading on moral philosophy then as situation a does not equal situation b. I can recommend you plenty of good texts on the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 20106 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I've found this whole experience unsettling as well. It's not often I'm on Renton and Chez's side. I'm usually with Gemmill but not here. Parky is funny because he flits around the sidelines, throwing out the occasional conspiracy theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 As in the hundreds of thousands we killed in Iraq because Saddam was coming to get us with his weapons of mass destruction? Or the 6 millions Jews that were killed in the Second World War? Sorry what relevance does this have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3992 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Intending to kill people who intend to kill you and killing other people by mistake who weren't intending to kill you = executing innocent people. Every single one of you who thinks that needs to be taken out and shot for being morally retarded. It's the "by mistake" that I think we're arguing about. Nobody disputes "genuine" collateral damage is unfortunate but acceptable but as the examples here and in history show the US has a poor record of indifference, incompetence and relish when it comes to civilian deaths. The precision of modern weapons could make strikes less likely to go astray - unfortunately the way they're being used actually means the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Finally, we're on the same side of an argument. I'm not sure how to feel. I don't consider playful discussions about Vikings and pyramids 'arguments' and neither should you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2482 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I don't consider playful discussions about Vikings and pyramids 'arguments' and neither should you. Serious business that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 It's the "by mistake" that I think we're arguing about. Nobody disputes "genuine" collateral damage is unfortunate but acceptable but as the examples here and in history show the US has a poor record of indifference, incompetence and relish when it comes to civilian deaths. The precision of modern weapons could make strikes less likely to go astray - unfortunately the way they're being used actually means the opposite. I couldn't give a shit about the practicalities, the US act like a bunch of cunts too. I am not having 1000s of years of moral thought wiped away in this thread because some left leaning geordie pansy can't tell it like it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 There is a terrible similarity between the uneasy alliance against Assad and the coalition of the brave on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18014 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Enjoying Chez's Gallic attitude here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18014 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Mind, it seems Isis might have saved you a shopping trip, so it's not all bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2482 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 The power of emotion is allowing him to eradicate bullshit where it lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3992 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I couldn't give a shit about the practicalities, the US act like a bunch of cunts too. I am not having 1000s of years of moral thought wiped away in this thread because some left leaning geordie pansy can't tell it like it is.A lot of American attitudes on guns, patriotic fervour and religious moral base are born of it being a very young country in civilisation terms - not the thousands of years you mention which I agree applies to European attitudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Indeed Rents, I'd be out shopping if it wasn't for the terrorists. Instead I'm in here giving it the big I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2482 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 A lot of American attitudes on guns, patriotic fervour and religious moral base are born of it being a very young country in civilisation terms - not the thousands of years you mention which I agree applies to European attitudes. Come on. It's not as though they turned up in the US tabula rasa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14135 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Mind, it seems Isis might have saved you a shopping trip, so it's not all bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Glad you asked the question - the US are involved in a military exercise deploying expensive military machinery. Your edit suggests you think they deliberately target innocent people. When you think about it, that's obviously a very stupid thing to think. You'd think, except for the clear documented cases where they have, then shrugged their shoulders and said tough shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 3573 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Ok so let me get this straight: Leveling a country to get at 0.1% of the population is not so bad because the idea was to get at 0.1% of the population and not kill hundreds of thousands in the process. The fact that thousands do die and we knew they were going to die is besides the point because its the 0.1% that were the official target. The others are an inconvenience which we are very sorry about but its not evil or terrorism because it doesnt affect my weekend shopping trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I presume through being inept and cunts? Are you saying they set up drone attacks by choosing ransom innocent people and attack them knowing full well that they are innocent? Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2482 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 You're arguing with a guy who is ideologically committed to his position. A position which consists of beliefs which are unfalsifiable. You're wasting your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18014 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Ok so let me get this straight: Leveling a country to get at 0.1% of the population is not so bad because the idea was to get at 0.1% of the population and not kill hundreds of thousands in the process. The fact that thousands do die and we knew they were going to die is besides the point because its the 0.1% that were the official target. The others are an inconvenience which we are very sorry about but its not evil or terrorism because it doesnt affect my weekend shopping trip. For clarity, which country are you referring to which has been levelled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Ok so let me get this straight: Leveling a country to get at 0.1% of the population is not so bad because the idea was to get at 0.1% of the population and not kill hundreds of thousands in the process. The fact that thousands do die and we knew they were going to die is besides the point because its the 0.1% that were the official target. The others are an inconvenience which we are very sorry about but its not evil or terrorism because it doesnt affect my weekend shopping trip. Was there a question in there? Or were you just clarifying something to yourself? Has that got something to do with Paris? The French? Syria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 3573 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Whats your view on the MSF case Chez? Or the bombing of the UN hospital last year in Gaza which had the UNHCR (iirc) chief in tears? Coordinates were already available with forces, and once the attacks began the authorities were again informed, yet the onslaught continued on for hours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2482 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I think he means Japan. So no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Whats your view on the MSF case Chez? Or the bombing of the UN hospital last year in Gaza which had the UNHCR (iirc) chief in tears? Coordinates were already available with forces, and once the attacks began the authorities were again informed, yet the onslaught continued on for hours? Awful terrible events that are not morally equivalent to executing innocent people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 3573 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 You're arguing with a guy who is ideologically committed to his position. A position which consists of beliefs which are unfalsifiable. You're wasting your time. Yeah, Im trying to say that hell that was unleashed in Paris is a daily reality for a lot of people in many countries. And we're responsible for a lot of it. It scares me. How barbaric of me. For clarity, which country are you referring to which has been levelled? Iraq? Syria? Palestine? Doesnt matter. Take your pick of any of the conflicts since WWII basically. Or are they irrelevant here because they're in the past? Was there a question in there? Or were you just clarifying something to yourself? Has that got something to do with Paris? The French? Syria? Trying to make sense of everything you've said. How far off am I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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