Dr Gloom 19883 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Park Life said: Just the sort of thing an empty vessel would say. i was more interested in getting off my tits at 18 than i was in politics. i didn't vote labour again after iraq until the last election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Fence sitter v Empty vessel. These tickets are going to shift! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Was too young to vote Blair the first two times and was out of the country and totally distracted for the third. I voted for Brown because I was afraid of an electoral wipeout for Labour and what the Tories might bring, but I was utterly disillusioned with their surrender of the narrative about the economic stuff even then. Wasn't taken in by Clegg and am pleased I wasn't tbh. Voted Miliband although very nearly didn't bother because I was so fed up with Labour and their nonsense agenda by that point. Thank fuck we now have an alternative to centrism that isn't xenophobia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Was too young to vote Blair the first two times and was out of the country and totally distracted for the third. I voted for Brown because I was afraid of an electoral wipeout for Labour and what the Tories might bring, but I was utterly disillusioned with their surrender of the narrative about the economic stuff even then. Wasn't taken in by Clegg and am pleased I wasn't tbh. Voted Miliband although very nearly didn't bother because I was so fed up with Labour and their nonsense agenda by that point. Thank fuck we now have an alternative to centrism that isn't xenophobia. Renton and Gloom were natural Clegg boys. Both voted Lib Dem iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30579 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: i was more interested in getting off my tits at 18 than i was in politics. I still am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19883 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, Park Life said: Fence sitter v Empty vessel. These tickets are going to shift! Well, you admitted on here that you’re a fan of Trump so I don’t know what makes you. Still, arguably less embarrassing than watching videos by sargon of akad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Alex said: I still am. Same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17876 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Was too young to vote Blair the first two times and was out of the country and totally distracted for the third. I voted for Brown because I was afraid of an electoral wipeout for Labour and what the Tories might bring, but I was utterly disillusioned with their surrender of the narrative about the economic stuff even then. Wasn't taken in by Clegg and am pleased I wasn't tbh. Voted Miliband although very nearly didn't bother because I was so fed up with Labour and their nonsense agenda by that point. Thank fuck we now have an alternative to centrism that isn't xenophobia. I know I'm repeating myself constantly but what good are alternatives if they are not in power? I doubt there has ever been a government as weak and shambolic as this one, and yet Corbyn has done very little to stop the damage they are causing and is still by no means an electoral certainty. BTW, PL says he is suspicious of ideologues in this thread. Makes it a bit surprising he hates Blair so much as that's exactly what he wasn't. He was a pragmatist, and as far as domestic welfare went, he was largely successful. I know, I'm bored of this argument too. I'd at least have thought we could concentrate on the present lot without going back to Iraq though, especially considering what Brown recently said. Edited November 9, 2017 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said: Well, you admitted on here that you’re a fan of Trump so I don’t know what makes you. Still, arguably less embarrassing than watching videos by sargon of akad. Look you've cracked already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30579 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Just now, Park Life said: Same here. I mean, at least you get something positive out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19883 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Park Life said: Renton and Gloom were natural Clegg boys. Both voted Lib Dem iirc. I voted Lib Dem after Iraq as a protest. Shifted my protest vote to green after they turned into tories during the coalition years, though the pupil premium remains a brilliant policy that they managed to get through despite who they were in bed with. I finally returned home to Labour at the last election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Just now, Alex said: I mean, at least you get something positive out of it Smelt weed in Parky Jnr room the other week. (She's 15 ffs!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30579 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Just now, Park Life said: Smelt weed in Parky Jnr room the other week. (She's 15 ffs!) Could be worse tbh. She could be a political activist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Renton said: I know I'm repeating myself constantly but what good are alternatives if they are not in power? I doubt there has ever been a government as weak and shambolic as this one, and yet Corbyn has done very little to stop the damage they are causing and is still by no means an electoral certainty. BTW, PL says he is suspicious of ideologues in this thread. Makes it a bit surprising he hates Blair so much as that's exactly what he wasn't. He was a pragmatist, and all fake and domestic welfare went, he was largely successful. I know, I'm bored of this argument too. I'd at least have thought we could concentrate on the present lot without going back to Iraq though, especially considering what Brown recently said. mmm.... Blair was a Neoliberal. I dunno about that statement tbh. Having a real left wing alternative to the Tories will be worth it in the long run. Eventually the Tories are going to hang themselves, and people will just HAVE to choose the left. Lose a few battles, win the war. Once they get in once, and can put some seriously useful policies on the agenda, it'll be really hard to undo. Corbyn just needs to prove that his politics can work, and we'll be fine for a generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 'Optics'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17876 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Rayvin said: mmm.... Blair was a Neoliberal. I dunno about that statement tbh. Having a real left wing alternative to the Tories will be worth it in the long run. Eventually the Tories are going to hang themselves, and people will just HAVE to choose the left. Lose a few battles, win the war. Once they get in once, and can put some seriously useful policies on the agenda, it'll be really hard to undo. Corbyn just needs to prove that his politics can work, and we'll be fine for a generation. The world is neoliberal though (although you know I dislike that term). Honestly, I would love a major shift to the left but I wish it was by someone more capable. Then the likes of McDonnell, Abbot, etc. Not remotely assuring. The clear and present danger is still Brexit. Get that wrong, we're all fucked whoever is in power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Renton's political analysis - the left need someone good looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Renton said: The world is neoliberal though (although you know I dislike that term). Honestly, I would love a major shift to the left but I wish it was by someone more capable. Then the likes of McDonnell, Abbot, etc. Not remotely assuring. The clear and present danger is still Brexit. Get that wrong, we're all fucked whoever is in power. Would prefer a more capable left wing offering as well. Also agree on Brexit. Have to play the hand we're dealt though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30579 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Park Life said: Renton's political analysis - the left need someone good looking. That was yours iirc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30579 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: Would prefer a more capable left wing offering as well. Also agree on Brexit. Have to play the hand we're dealt though... Me too, the right wing ones in power atm being more capable (given what's at stake) would be canny too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Alex said: That was yours iirc Booooo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Alex said: Me too, the right wing ones in power atm being more capable (given what's at stake) would be canny too Well yeah actually. The level of political ability in this country is beyond hopeless atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 minutes ago, Alex said: Me too, the right wing ones in power atm being more capable (given what's at stake) would be canny too Politics attracts the wrong sort innit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14708 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 13 minutes ago, Renton said: I know I'm repeating myself constantly but what good are alternatives if they are not in power? I doubt there has ever been a government as weak and shambolic as this one, and yet Corbyn has done very little to stop the damage they are causing and is still by no means an electoral certainty. BTW, PL says he is suspicious of ideologues in this thread. Makes it a bit surprising he hates Blair so much as that's exactly what he wasn't. He was a pragmatist, and as far as domestic welfare went, he was largely successful. I know, I'm bored of this argument too. I'd at least have thought we could concentrate on the present lot without going back to Iraq though, especially considering what Brown recently said. I didnt understand it at the time but am more sure than Rayvin is in thinking Blair was pretty much the ultimate neo liberal. Its why he was close with Bush and why Obama was on good terms with Cameron, theyre all tied in to this massive shift of public money into the private sector and also willing to go into massive debt both to corporate institutions and foreign powers eg China. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30579 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 On 05/10/2016 at 10:50 AM, Park Life said: The PLP are just offering Tory lite to protect their pathetic careers. The will never win with that but they might save their seats. That's the long and the short of it. The Labour leader might be an addled old fogey that drinks mint tea...So what? A proper alternative to neo-Liberalism and small state politics is going to take time to build. There will come a time when the Labour leader might look like Tom Cruise with the brain of Corbyn. Then all bets will be off. New Old Labour Phoooar.. This is what I was referring to @Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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