SpaceCadet 5 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Renton said: I can see why that worries you. My parents don't have it and my grandparents didn't either so I'm hopeful that I won't have that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Just now, ewerk said: We shouldn't be looking for a gun-toting PM ready to follow the USA into any conflict but he has shown that he will avoid conflict except under the most extreme circumstances. If he wanted to chose principle over pragmatism then he should have either come clean before the referendum. Half-heartedly pushing remain over leave when he doesn't believe in it isn't being principled. Yes, he broke a Tory majority against a fucking robot. He was better on the campaign trail but he still failed to become PM and has fallen away again after the election and has proven incapable of effectively attacking the most disorganised, incompetent government in decades. He's pretty much fucking useless. He couldn't really run on an "I'm on the fence" platform, could he? I'm basically saying I (and I think a lot of us) want someone with his positions, a lot more strength and a little more pragmatism. An electable centre-leftist. Yes, we might not agree with all of their positions, but it's far fucking better than the alternatives (and I include New Labour in that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 14 minutes ago, Renton said: And as much to do with the Tory manifesto. They won't be making that mistake again. What can the Tories offer that will appeal to anyone once Brexit is out of the way? More of the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3215 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, SpaceCadet said: My parents don't have it and my grandparents didn't either so I'm hopeful that I won't have that problem. Most dementias are not inherited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26506 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 1 minute ago, adios said: He couldn't really run on an "I'm on the fence" platform, could he? I'm basically saying I (and I think a lot of us) want someone with his positions, a lot more strength and a little more pragmatism. An electable centre-leftist. Yes, we might not agree with all of their positions, but it's far fucking better than the alternatives (and I include New Labour in that). No it's clear that he was a closet leaver. I'm not against an electable left wing candidate, I think that's what can win the next election. He clearly isn't it though, he still has the stench of an old commie to many. I'm not sure who the alternative is though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 1 minute ago, ewerk said: No it's clear that he was a closet leaver. I'm not against an electable left wing candidate, I think that's what can win the next election. He clearly isn't it though, he still has the stench of an old commie to many. I'm not sure who the alternative is though. How is that clear? I remember what he was saying in the run up and it was pro-Remain with touches of 'we should push for democratic reform within the EU itself. If you're basing it on his position following the referendum, most of Labour has gone with him on that. Were they all closet leavers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 1 minute ago, ewerk said: No it's clear that he was a closet leaver. This appears to be the only thing we're actually disagreeing on. To which I say 'meh' and good day to you, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceCadet 5 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 9 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said: Most dementias are not inherited. Such a creepy disease is dementia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26506 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 He voted to leave in 1975 and as we well know, he isn't one to change long held views. His brother and other colleagues claim that he wanted out. His half-arsed performances in the campaign illustrate that he secretly wanted out. He wanted to trigger Article 50 immediately after the vote. He's a goddamn leaver and if you can't see that then you're a goddamn fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceCadet 5 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 There's also the sacking of Owen Smith for calling for a second referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, ewerk said: His half-arsed performances in the campaign illustrate that he secretly wanted out Everywhere else this is seen as weakness but here alone it's calculated? I really am tagging @Rayvin in now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26506 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Compare his performances in the referendum to those when he was campaigning during the general election. It's night and day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Yeah no way am I getting involved in this one again No thanks. It doesn't even matter anyway, whatever his personal beliefs are, he followed party line on Brexit and urged Labour to vote Remain - which they did. 65% of Labour voters went Remain. Eclipsed only slightly by the Lib Dems at 68%! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17841 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 He's obviously a leaver ffs! It's not up for serious debate. That he doesn't just admit makes a joke of his so-called principles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, SpaceCadet said: There's also the sacking of Owen Smith for calling for a second referendum. I would have done that and I'm a Remainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceCadet 5 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I get it. A second referendum is exhausting enough thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14083 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 3 hours ago, Rayvin said: If you're basing it on his position following the referendum, most of Labour has gone with him on that. Were they all closet leavers? The loony left insurgency has made it perfectly clear they'll work to get anyone deselected if they dare to step out of line. Understandable that lots of MPs would try and ride it out and see if the madness passes eventually rather than lining up to eagerly write their own death warrant. What a rabble the political class is right now though, on all sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, Meenzer said: The loony left insurgency has made it perfectly clear they'll work to get anyone deselected if they dare to step out of line. Understandable that lots of MPs would try and ride it out and see if the madness passes eventually rather than lining up to eagerly write their own death warrant. What a rabble the political class is right now though, on all sides. Aha, and naturally, that's what they were all thinking when they had that leadership challenge? Fearing for their own positions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26506 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 The threat of deselections has largely come since the leadership challenge iirc. You're certainly in a fiesty mood these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I so badly want to apologise for that... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 Now that momentum has control of everything I just can’t see any way back. The lunatic youth bloc vote are always going to vote for the leftist candidate who by their very nature will always be unelectable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 12769 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Until the youth outnumber the endangered gammon vote anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 (edited) Yep, so the Tories forever. Ever lowering levels of competence. At some point a centre left party will split off from Labour, obliterate the left wing, and deliver a 200 seat majority to the Tories. The NHS will be sold off, people will be dying in their homes as heating becomes too pricey over winter and healthcare out of reach of the poorest in society. Disaffected youths will form gangs in the inner cities, with police unable to control them due to ever increasing cuts. Soon only privileged areas can be protected properly, leading to segregation of rich and poor with the former in gated communities. Or we could vote for a guy who wants to make the world a little fairer by using a fiscally responsible strategy of borrowing to invest, which would very likely hurt those at the top a bit, but which would demonstrate that we really are 'all in this together'. Edited May 3, 2018 by Rayvin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14083 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Unfortunately he also wants a hard Brexit that'll render his fiscal plans impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I was under the impression that Labour was continuing to flip flop on Brexit. You know what though, if further down the line the Tories finally nail the plan for Brexit and it is, as predicted, an absolute shambles with hardly any public support - and then Labour rally around the single market as a sane solution in response, you guys are never going to hear the end of it from me Kind of like how I never hear the end of your bleating about Corbyn now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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