adios 717 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) France is a better comparison than the US; all the proper cops there are armed. I think @ewerk's idea is at the very least worthy of consideration. Edited June 4, 2017 by adios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26576 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said: That's some good knowledge for somebody that hasn't done his research Thirty seconds of googling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26576 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 17 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said: So what was the point in saying this then? It's taken officers considered to be elite enough to be on a firearms team 50 bullets and they've shot a civilian. How can you possibly conclude that giving a lesser officer a pistol would do anything in this situation? Terrorists target densely populated events/social gatherings and you think a street bobby firing a pistol around might somehow be a good counter measure? It's ridiculous even before you consider the ramifications of having police with guns in non-terrorist situations. Have you anything to base that on? Anything at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 1 minute ago, ewerk said: Have you anything to base that on? Anything at all? Base which bit on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19879 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Arming and training every pc plod is going to cost a lot, that's for sure, at a time when the force is being cut by the tories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said: Arming and training every pc plod is going to cost a lot, that's for sure, at a time when the force is being cut by the tories Cost a lot for no gain. It wouldn't stop someone ploughing a van into a crowd of people or a suicide bomber blowing himself up. Last night's attackers were dead within 8 minutes. Arming an standard officer in the hope that they might make a miraculous shot through a van window with a pistol and stop a vehicle attack or something just seems futile. France arms it's Police and that hasn't really helped them stave off terrorists or keep fatalities down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohhh_yeah 2789 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 First London victim named. The family of Ms Archibald, from Castlegar, British Columbia, have released a statement following the tragic news of her death. "We grieve the loss of our beautiful, loving daughter and sister. She had room in her heart for everyone and believed strongly that every person was to be valued and respected. She lived this belief working in a shelter for the homeless until she moved to Europe to be with her fiancé. She would have had no understanding of the callous cruelty that caused her death. Please honour her by making your community a better place. Volunteer your time and labour or donate to a homeless shelter. Tell them Chrissy sent you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohhh_yeah 2789 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 BREAKING: Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt, Bahrain cut all ties with Qatar. Qatari citizens have 14 days to leave counties. Saudis shut down sea, air, & land crossings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14112 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I thought Saudi was behind all this shit, not Qatar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26576 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 A statement from Richard Keys is expected shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26576 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 9 hours ago, TheGingerQuiff said: Cost a lot for no gain. It wouldn't stop someone ploughing a van into a crowd of people or a suicide bomber blowing himself up. Last night's attackers were dead within 8 minutes. Arming an standard officer in the hope that they might make a miraculous shot through a van window with a pistol and stop a vehicle attack or something just seems futile. France arms it's Police and that hasn't really helped them stave off terrorists or keep fatalities down Yes it's unlikely to stop a van mowing down pedestrians, though it might put the driver off enough that they crash the vehicle. It would be of more use against knife and machete attacks. Had the officer at Westminster been armed he'd probably still be alive. Had the officer who tackled the terrorists on Saturday night been armed then lives would most likely have been saved. Should that tactic be used more often then arming the police has to be looked at. In situations like that at Borough market a taser wouldn't have been of much use given the fact that there were multiple assailants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14112 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 You can't keep Manchester down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26576 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 41 minutes ago, ewerk said: Yes it's unlikely to stop a van mowing down pedestrians, though it might put the driver off enough that they crash the vehicle. It would be of more use against knife and machete attacks. Had the officer at Westminster been armed he'd probably still be alive. Had the officer who tackled the terrorists on Saturday night been armed then lives would most likely have been saved. Should that tactic be used more often then arming the police has to be looked at. In situations like that at Borough market a taser wouldn't have been of much use given the fact that there were multiple assailants. Agree with ewerk on this. Arming the police doesn't really feel like an infringement of civil liberties and, with training, may reduce the risks of terrorism. The problem we'll get is that there'll be more shootings by police on a general day to day basis - are our police more responsible and open minded than their US counterparts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26576 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Everyone compares it to the US but we have an entirely different situation here where the police won't be in fear of every criminal being armed. Comparing it to police in Europe would be more apt and even then France and Germany have much higher levels of gun ownership than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 1 minute ago, ewerk said: Everyone compares it to the US but we have an entirely different situation here where the police won't be in fear of every criminal being armed. Comparing it to police in Europe would be more apt and even then France and Germany have much higher levels of gun ownership than we do. Also true. As I say, I'd be in favour of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Sajid Javid says Muslims have a 'unique burden' to fix this problem in their communities: Speaking as a Muslim myself, we need to ask ourselves searching questions … There’s no avoiding the fact that these people think they are Muslims. They identify as Muslims. And they carry out their attacks – ignorantly, offensively – in the name of Islam. That’s why, although we all share the responsibility for tackling terrorism, there’s a special, unique burden on the Muslim community … We need them to set off on the path to peace rather than the road to war. We need to offer not just a counternarrative, which rebuts the extremists, but a positive and self-confident narrative that promotes pluralistic, British values – and their compatibility with an Islamic life. And that message can best come from within the Muslim community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19879 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Top man, Sadiq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26576 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said: Top man, Sadiq They're all the same to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14112 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I was just going to post the same thing. We're all the same to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 2 hours ago, ewerk said: Yes it's unlikely to stop a van mowing down pedestrians, though it might put the driver off enough that they crash the vehicle. It would be of more use against knife and machete attacks. Had the officer at Westminster been armed he'd probably still be alive. Had the officer who tackled the terrorists on Saturday night been armed then lives would most likely have been saved. Should that tactic be used more often then arming the police has to be looked at. In situations like that at Borough market a taser wouldn't have been of much use given the fact that there were multiple assailants. Perhaps but terrorists tactics would adapt too though. There'd be 120k firearms on the street that they could mug and use for themselves. The van attack part could mow down an officer, jump out and take his gun and we've now got an even more dangerous situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26576 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Again, do other countries have that problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Oh dear. Javid is a Tory, Gloom. Sadiq Kahn is the guy who said we should just get used to terrorism. Not sure he'd approve of the statement above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Just now, ewerk said: Again, do other countries have that problem? Have those countries effectively stopped any terror attacks by arming their beat bobbies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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