Rayvin

They're just not a broad church anymore, it's too fractured. We need PR to solve this because Labour is incapable. When the left had power the centre was shouting and screaming and now the shoe is on the other foot both ways. You could argue that a unifier, someone palatable to both sides, could maybe restore this. Burnham maybe. Feels like this is now a make or break situation for Starmer even this soon into his leadership - if he can't unify then he needs to purge, if he purges then he'll almost certainly lose next time out. But beyond that, we desperately need PR. And it's worth noting that Farage is about to kick off Reform UK which will advocate for an English Parliament and PR. Labour should get out ahead of this or it's going to get torched in the heartlands once again.

Yep, certainly he should have done that before now, not sure how effective it would be with it being left this late. He could come out and call off the hounds I guess with a full apology even if he doesn't think it's right but he's not going to do that and I'm not particularly convinced it would make any difference now, the left is out for blood.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/18/labour-party-divided-corbyn-antisemitism The EHRC found that one of the key ways in which Labour acted unlawfully was by politically interfering in the handling of complaints. Half the party now believes that the original decision to suspend Corbyn amounted to political interference; the other half thinks lifting the suspension was the result of political interference (specifically a “factionally aligned political committee”, according to the Jewish Labour Movement). Either side can marshall convincing arguments, but this overlooks what is driving Labour’s internal crisis over antisemitism: the absence of trust. Instead of addressing this deeper issue, the charge of political interference has become a stick for members to beat each other with. The party is now more divided than ever, with Corbyn’s ordinary membership being treated as a separate issue to the question of whether the whip should be restored. Rather than moving on, Labour is stuck in a mess of its own making. ------- There are no winners in this shambles except the Tories. It had to be one thing or the other, not this weak as piss halfway house.

Seriously, the Saville line? That's the same shit the right trot out. That is dismal. What a fucking mess this entire thing has become.

It seems Starmer agreed with you. Now the Jewish community can be pissed that Corbyn was reinstated as a member, and the lefties can be pissed that he's still not welcomed back to sit as a Labour MP. Everyone wins! If you're a Tory, at least. He should just have just thrown him out of the party full stop ffs.

I agree, this is just a pointless sideshow now, and cult like attachments to anyone are utterly beside the point of what anyone is trying to achieve here. Corbyn is done, he's never going to come back or have another opportunity, they need to move on and find their next champion.

Clever from Starmer (if indeed he had anything to do with it at all), it'll put a seed of doubt in the minds of the fanatics that maybe their conspiracy theories of purges aren't actually real. Having said that, it's also just an accident waiting to happen on another day now.

And then came out to confirm that actually, that wasn't a concession I doubt he even knows what day of the week it is man. Everyone should just move on without him.

If they did that, they'd still be attacking Labour on Twitter and still just as visible as before. I don't think they're being fair with Starmer, I think it's fairly clear that he's trying to take both sides with him since he'll know the danger of losing the left, but in the end they're now fighting a war for the heart and soul of the party on the same terms that the moderates fought it while Corbyn was in charge. It's petty, damaging, and pointless. As it was when it was happening under Corbyn. As an aside which may give you some encouragement, it appears that in true leftist style, the various radical fringes are all turning on Momentum. I daresay that if you wait long enough, it'll all just collapse in on itself anyway.

I can't shake this feeling that, with Cummings continuing to work from home for the next 6 weeks, this is all political theatre. There's been no row, no sacking. Cummings probably came up with this himself in order to lend some power and authority back to Johnson ahead of his planned departure at Christmas. May even have been the price for some lucrative contract to a mate. The only reason I can think of for this not being theatre is that Cummings' pride might prevent such an outcome... except that he has so much disdain for the rest of us that I could legitimately see him enjoying taking us for fools.

I honestly don't know but I guess we'll find out after 4 years of Biden.

They've just been bought by Juan Sartori and the heir of Louis-Dreyfus. Not a homeless person in sight.

I guess you have more faith in them than I do. They believe what they read on the internet and don't let anything outside of their accepted beliefs enter their thinking. It's why 40% of this country still wants Brexit to happen despite the fact that a considerable number of Yeehaw McCrackens in the Tory party, including Churchills own grandson, rebelled over it. They just get further and further radicalized. Maybe because they keep winning tbh. I do have some hope that seeing Trump lose might take the wind out of their collective sails a bit. A large part of their identity is this notion that they are a silent majority and that "all" people think like them.

This position assumes that we are dealing with people who have child like levels of emotional maturity. Which they do. But the flip side is that we concede things that are important to us in order to "win them over". Immigration is a good example of this, we've all but completely given up on discussing the merits of that now because it's electoral suicide with the red wallers. So my point here really is that there is no way back for these people until they grow the fuck up, whether we are saying it or the right are saying it. They've gone past the point of rational discourse now. Nothing we can do or say will make a difference, be it appeasement or aggressive rhetoric. I mean look at the US - Fox news has been appeasing these people for fucking decades and now they've fallen foul of the monster they created. Branded as leftists by an increasingly deranged, conspiracy focused right wing base that have been appeased for years. We can't fix them. You can't save other people, especially not from themselves. They need to wake the fuck up of their own accord, or we need to wait for them to die. That's all there is IMO.

I agree with this. As with Brexit, before the people that vote for this shit can be forgiven and treated like human being again, they need to acknowledge the extent of their colossal fuck up. The red states, as with the red wall, should not be "reached out to" while they continue to believe that they were right.

Actually come to think of it, that 1% to the LDs could be over the new Brexit stance.

That really is all it is. 40% of this country, come hell or high water, will vote Tory. That's the fixed number. As for Labour dropping points it looks like the Greens and the LDs have both benefitted, which suggests that 1% has come from lefties who feel alienated by Starmer, and 1% of centrist Labour members who just don't like the cut of Starmer's jib, presumably. The other 2% have probably just given up on politics altogether or defected to the SNP

Can he declare a state of emergency through executive powers?

Why though. What does that give him.

The Democrats are doing some soul searching over their poor results in the House and Senate with the lady responsible for the campaigns having stood down. I'm not sure this election has answered any question about the current state of play with the exception of 'do we want more of Trump'.

We maybe need to pivot to a new word tbh - socialism has been very successfully poisoned in the American mindset. I was just reading before that AOC is thinking of chucking the towel in, incidentally. Going the same way as all principled left wingers sadly.

Or if the election results are thrown out because Trump manages to discredit them. Since the US is a Republic first and a Democracy second, the actual voting isn't as important as the House's decision. And since in this specific set of circumstances the House gets a one state, one vote decision to make, it is possible that even in a Democrat controlled House, Trump could be made president if enough Republicans go along with him.

If he creates enough of a dispute about the whole issue that it ends up back in the House (it would have to be a serious mess to get to this though), he doesn't need to flip any states really, he can just bank on winning in there (apparently).

Also @Howay, congrats on the new arrival! Altogether it must be a time of immense hope for the future in your household. Best wishes