Rayvin

I'd agree with this too, along with an educational focus on civics in school - maybe even tying the two things together somehow. But also agree that this is just desperation from the Tories.

I haven't and I'm inclined not to because being preached at by the Guardian is one of the surefire ways to guarantee that I don't vote Labour.

Have just read this - honestly this is the closest I've come to wanting to vote Labour again. Just a reminder of all of the damage those miserable cunts have done to this country. I might well do it tbh, they really do deserve to be punished. Destroyed, as Renton says.

Think AOC said she was going to give up on politics after this next round, didn't want to waste her life being suppressed by the centre ground with no change being achieved.

Sunak is absolutely godawful tbh, it's actually sort of incredible that he's not given in already. I wonder what sort of silverwear they're selling under the table while they wait for the inevitable...

Really is going to be interesting this summer. Is this the club we hope it is with the team spirit and relationships between players and fans, or is it gearing up to be another standard "big club". We shall see I suppose.

This is wild though. I'm actually a supporter of VAR in some ways, continue to believe it's just applied poorly rather than functionally useless, but the level of fucking on with this discussion is just mental. It's too much. Aside from anything else right, if the offside hadn't been part of that situation would the red card penalty even have been picked up? It just feels wrong to be going to this level of detail.

Possible ignorance here, but before the Tories started kicking off about this particular issue I assume it was already a thing. Like it didn't just start happening suddenly once the immediate devastation of Brexit was complete. So before Rwanda and so on, what were we doing about it? And is it actually an issue, or just a more Tory nonsense?

Agree here, and I'm open to the reality that it could be the latter. Mind you, we should look cautiously at the US situation too - it worked for Biden on that occasion but he seems to be right back against Trump again now, with the latter ahead in the polls. My personal belief is that you do need to come up with a way to 'win' at some point, and that involves actually having a vision for where the country needs to go. Britain is still stuck in a slow motion car crash, and while Labour will at least hit the brakes, it's not about to start trying to turn the car around. We're going to continue off the cliff until someone with some ideas comes along.

Interesting article from the Guardian here on perceptions of Labour beyond just the polling. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/22/labour-tories-election-polls-analysis Starmer's Labour are polling lower than Milliband and Corbyn on: - Keeping Promises - Understanding the problems the country faces And are variable (the same? only slightly better?) than both on - Good team of leaders - Fit to govern The Tories have nosedived on every metric. So as I guess we all know, this just confirms that Labour is winning by default, not because they are seen as having anything to offer.

I am, she's not. That offer would have been a godsend tbh, but frankly it appeared out of nowhere and was shot down almost as quick, so I didn't exactly have time to get my hopes up. I'm not really trying to justify my position solely on that anyway as I did feel very strongly about this anyway. It's just extra context.

As I've said before, if everyone voted Labour despite misgivings and unhappiness with certain policies, then Labour would never be motivated to change the way they operate. They would simply stay where they are. Withholding my vote is the only way I can demonstrate to Starmer that his lies were unacceptable, and that he cannot take me for granted. So it's not even about thinking that we can just pop back into the EU at this point, it's that Labour are refusing to tell the truth on how damaging this has been, and that we need to walk it back. Until they do that, I won't vote for them - with the exception of if they push for voting reform. I can justify that vote to myself on the basis that it saves us from this binary nonsense which only serves to entrench stupid policies like Brexit. I'm not expecting I am noticed, or that I achieve anything with this. I simply can't not do it. It would be an erosion of my sense of self, and the values that are important to me. All for what? A vote that is meaningless for a party that won't notice either way, and will win without me. I'm better off preserving my sense of self since at least that is an impact I can feel. If you need this to make more sense in a pragmatic way than it does, my partner is European and we are struggling to find a way for her to be here, meaning that much of my life involves being separated from someone I care about. Now, I would have taken this stance anyway I like to think, but that specific reality does rather underline it. Labour have nothing to offer me that will make that any better. They just continue to spit in my face to placate fucking morons. I have no respect for that, and I won't vote for what I don't respect.

Honestly I do feel like you think I'm a simpleton in all of this and that I think we can just flick a switch and go back to how things were. I reckon we're 20 or 30 years off rejoining if we ever do. That's not going to change my voting choices though. This country is beyond saving until we go back to it, and so I won't pretend that any meaningful change can come about otherwise. You have faith that Labour can rearrange some deckchairs as the ship sinks and that this will change something for the better, but I don't. So I would argue that there is simply nothing for me to vote for that I believe in. Not after all of Labour's lies and all the principles they've trampled to win. Labour is getting nothing from me until they demonstrate that they are worth me giving them my vote on the basis of the things I care about. They consistently give me the finger with everything they say on this, so that's what I'm giving them back.

My point is that someone needs to be flying the flag for rejoining and holding back their vote on this basis. No issue is as important to me as this one, and I won't endorse any party that doesn't support rejoining. Even if rejoining took years, I'd vote for a party with the balls to tell the truth on the need to go back. My plan is to spoil my ballot remember, I don't need any of them to endorse my view. My view is meaningless to them, but while that remains the case, they are meaningless to me.

I resigned party membership once Corbyn's Labour took a second referendum off their manifesto, and only went back when they took it forward as a policy again in the 2019 election. I was fucking consistent on this believe it or not.

Was having a fairly shit morning, logged in here, read this and had my first proper laugh of the day. Cheers mate

Unless rejoining the EU or wanting voting reform are now considered to be left wing policies, I'm probably more a radical centrist at this point as opposed to anything else. And I'm still not voting Labour, not that they need me to.

That does make her seem a tad erratic, though I appreciate the Mirror is the Mirror. I like Stavely though, she's been the bridge between club and owners. I hope she's still playing some sort of a role.

So is Cameron saying today that Israel are going to escalate with Iran? This is going stunningly badly for everyone involved tbh. A sobering reminder of what the breakdown of interdependency means for the world. Still, I suppose BAE and Lockheed are having a field day.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/04/israel-us-gaza-joe-biden-benjamin-netanyahu-phone-call Biden called for a ceasefire at 30k it turns out. Israel wiping out Hamas was never remotely realistic unless they were going to commit a full on genocide through Gaza, so I want to just flag this post back up. The whole world turning around now and saying a ceasefire has to be reached is just stomach turning. The US knew, we knew, everyone fucking knew that Israel weren't going to fucking succeed. Why did we have to let them kill 30k+ people? Because apparently we needed to let Israel kill a sufficient number of innocents so as to be somewhat 'appeased'. The world let Israel collect a blood debt on Palestinian lives. It is beyond sickening how the world has handled this.

A few years ago maybe. I'm not that young anymore tbf, and I'm now spent as a force for 'good'. I'm too cynical and jaded, and I can't see how any of it can ever improve in reality. The ship sailed and I lost hope when it did. I'm now just bitter, as per my previous post

Mind you, Labour are trying to paint me (us?) as the enemies... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/08/middle-class-lefties-wont-stop-labour-using-private-sector-to-cut-nhs-backlog-wes-streeting-says MIddle Class Lefties apparently are the enemy of NHS reform. Not fucking worthless, abject politicians like Wes Streeting.

Yeah I'll definitely be cheering that outcome. Though I doubt it'll be the end of him.

I'll enjoy it too on some level I'm sure. Every staunch Brexiteer that goes down will be celebrated. JRM would be a real scalp, I gather he's in trouble.

In fairness, none of my position is tactical or motivated by anything other than the fact that I am deeply pissed off and let down by politics in this country, and I am simply beyond being able to compromise on it any more on a personal level. I agree that we are aligned on basically everything. The difference I think just comes down to hope/optimism for the future. You have some.