Rayvin

Referendum result was a lashing out response to the lie of austerity. Or at least there was enough of that mixed up in it to make the difference. Since the Tories have now admitted austerity was ideologically driven bullshit which has been unceremoniously abandoned in an act of pure fear at the outcome of Brexit, I think it's fair to say that 'the majority' you refer to no longer exists in terms of why the damn thing happened.

You'll get a lot of support for that opinion on here. Although personally I would say that Momentum almost single handedly brought the Tories to their knees last time out, and that if they had someone more competent at the helm they would have a far easier job of things. They function as a media bypass, taking political messages unedited directly to the electorate. If the enthusiasm remains, they should win out in the end. Remember that Labour won the vote share for everyone under 45. Momentum did its job - it was out on the streets in force. And remember it was on the defensive last time out. Had they attacked, we would almost certainly have seen the back of Rudd, if not many others. https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/01/jeremy-corbyns-takeover-is-complete-and-the-tories-are-terrified/ Momentum, a group that did not exist four years ago, has instead succeeded in taking over a party: the leadership and the membership. The NEC changes mean Momentum’s reverse takeover of the Labour party is now complete, and Labour MPs are now its hostages. MPs who complain about hard-left takeover will be told that this is not ‘entryism’ but simple democracy — which it is. Momentum found and inspired thousands to join the Labour party and call the shots. It deserves its victory.

I can never quite decide if I hate Gove or Johnson more. It speaks volumes about those two that Hunt isn't even in that equation tbh. May I can't hate anymore. She's too pathetic.

What ideology is it that you think Renton has?

That is a pathetic overreaction from Sunderland

Gove has just claimed that Brexit has made the UK the most immigration friendly country in the EU

Kudos.

Ahhhh. Ok i got you. Pro-Sargon? I thought the nazi pug affair was insane but that isnt much of a statement.

Tbh i hope this guy stays. Should improve debate considerably. It can get a bit echo chamber esque i here.

Amazing.

Remind me... unlimited capitalism? Or have I got that wrong? The free market is paramount, right?

Yeah that word is being used by almost all sides of the political spectrum now so it doesn't help much. I guess it'll become clear over time. FWIW I'm liberal too.

Separate question - where would you place yourself on the political spectrum?

Would you accept a reformed EU that elected officials and had greater accountability?

Really? British people strike me as particular susceptible to being sleep walked into fascism given our predilection for just accepting the reality of things and not actually taking any action to bring about change from the ground up.

straight into the EU thread. @SpaceCadet Its worth making clear tbh that hardly anyone on here voted out. No one will make a big issue of it generally but you're going to be standing alone in here on this. Well you'll have CT but thats actually worse than nothing.

Given that I just called for a centralised EU superstate in the Brexit thread, he might actually believe this

In For basically the opposite reason

If you get called a cunt directly as well, we mean it affectionately. We seem to lose a lot of newbies to that particular misunderstanding. And it gets @Tdansmith all riled up.

Cattermole thinks they've got going now mind. 3 straight draws against midtable opposition will have put the fear into any side in that division for sure.

Still think us, but if they go down again I think we have to consider that they're just too small a team to be a rival. We should perhaps consider adopting them as one of those small clubs bigger teams loan players to. Like Gateshead.

Joey Barton taking over Fleetwood Town https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43814308

I mean at the rate they're going, Carlisle might become a more significant fixture for us. And arguably next season would they would be nearer Sunderland's level than we would be as well.

If by some freak occurrence they were to go down again next season - or maybe if they got stuck in midtable in L1 for an extended period of time - how long do you think it would take for us to basically 'forget' them?