Rayvin

Really helpful, thanks mate. Will keep all of this in mind.

Yep that's true. That fact alone will be staying his hand but I assure you he won't jeopardise other, profitable, investments to save it. Especially as there are no guarantees about any expenditure having the desired effect. Best case scenario now is that they get stripped right back and spend a few years getting things under control again. But if they run out of money and the bank starts calling, he isn't going to save them iyam.

From a financial point of view I'd take the £1k now. Given that I could invest that plus the £1k I'm not giving him, and earn more from them. From a sentimental point of view I'd loan him the extra money. Which of the two approaches do you think made Short a billionaire? And again, why do you think liquidating his shares to help Sunderland is something he would want to do? He is an investor. He won't be sitting on hundreds of millions in his bank account, it would be a waste of his money. Instead, almost all of it will be tied up in other investments. Why should he sell those for Sunderland? I would honestly be surprised if he has more than a few million stashed away in cash for a rainy day. And again, why give that to Sunderland?

You keep assuming he has the money though. He very legitimately may not. And as ewerk says he's been throwing money at then for years. They owe Short alone something like £100m don't they? Why would he think it'll go any better this time. I read he made his money from asset stripping. If that's true he'll know exactly what to do here, and he's likely heartless enough to do it. There's a thread on rtg now about how much impact falling attendances will have on all of this. It'll become a bigger deal as parachute payments reduce, that's for sure.

Ah ok. So to be clear, you can grind up to 280 normally but then need exotic emblems from raids to progress further? I think that's the bit I don't get, how do you get from 280 to 300 and what is meant by soft cap. If it's what I've set out above then I guess I do get it, but it's all speculation on my part.

Knocked down for housing that's fucking cold man. Surely it's not that dire? Although it would explain why they so desperately need a buyer. It seems clear that Short isn't going to be putting further money in anyway. Their best bet I guess is a 5 year repayment plan or something like that. But they'd have to strike a balance between not falling out of the division and paying it off.

Aye not bad that. I think I read the soft cap was 260 so it shouldn't be much longer until I stop getting the things anyway. Then it's strikes and raids I suppose. Having said that I still don't really get how all of this works.

Don't know about the stadium. You'd think so. That said, how grim would it be if all this came to pass? It's not just the debt either, it's the ongoing lack of sustainable operation. Not only would they need to find £70m, but they'd need to scale back the playing team even further. I mean look, maybe you're right and this isn't on the immediate horizon, but at some point this is going to happen unless they can get bought or downgrade the playing staff to something in keeping with their means.

I would have thought the latter since presumably the club would exhaust all outside funding options open to it well before this happens. But they're no guarantee to go back up by any stretch, and if what ewerk says about their wages is true, how would any lender be able to look at that and decided that yes, they're a safe investment. Do they have £70m worth of assets though, I wonder.

WTF.

I don't know. You've mentioned putting £20m in but what if it needs more than that? What if Short doesn't have the liquid assets in the same way Ashley doesn't? All I know is that rtg seems spooked by it all of a sudden, and that they spent £1.25m this summer. Which is bobbins.

I think that's because we view administration as the absolute last thing any owner would want to happen. If Short doesn't want to put more money in, why wouldn't he let it go under? Unless he can find funding externally. Having said this, I don't consider it likely either, beyond the fact that a lot of chatter on rtg seems to be focusing on it. Moreover, I think it's FFP that's actually due to fuck them over.

Aye but you're assuming here that they don't enter administration. They'll not go down on merit but it's possible on financial ineptitude.

Nice, thanks.

Have managed to get to 253 but it's getting harder to push upwards now. Also, wtf are you meant to do with glimmer? I have the maximum allowable amount and can't think of any real use for it once I have the ship I want.

I never saw that. Absolutely fucking criminal that such things weren't broadly publicised. £4-5k per annum worse off, per household. Fuck!

@Dr Gloom I wouldn't worry about it, Labour are coming around on this issue. They just need to muddy the waters enough until the Tories drop a bollock big enough to cause serious reservations amongst people. They need the right narrative to flip over, basically. I think they want to flip though.

I think the thing is that if you disregard all of the information about why our club is an objectively superior and higher profile entity, which they do, they won't be able to understand why anyone of Rafa's calibre would be here. And the fact that they guy has embraced the city and its people will make it even worse. So obviously he must be shit. It's the only explanation they're psychologically able to handle.

I don't get it, what's confusing about that. He's basically backing single market access and I assume knows that the only way this can be achieved is by implementing the associated rules. The fact that he's given himself an 'out' in terms of an unfeasible trade agreement is no different to what the Tories are saying about trade deals iyam. I think Labour are doing a 'softly softly' u turn on it.

Aye but I'm starting to hope West Ham win their next game.

Fish, you should know, the Tories are banning that kind of thing. You're going to end up with listeners needing to enter credit card details to hear it at this rate.

Maybe that's part of the thinking. Parish might have looked at that and decided they need to win against Southampton or they'll end up 8 games in with 0 points. Actually makes more sense looked at that way. They don't have time for de Boer to work his system out, they need back to basics pragmatism. Man I hope they go 8 games with 0 points, that'd be hilarious.

Aye fair enough. Just checked a Palace forum and they're universally damning this move, and feel they've been transformed into a laughing stock. So it wasn't fan pressure that did it, I guess.

The company I work for is an exporter... Fuck.

Fucking idiotic club, Palace. No risk of them being in for Rafa? They "stole" Pardew off us after all...