Rayvin

This is absolutely on you mind you started this.

I suppose you can, but for that to stack up... Ok better question, what do you think the earth looks like?

They're not being dragged along by atmosphere though. Atmosphere isn't acting on the helicopter in this scenario. Both the atmosphere and the helicopter have sideways momentum already. Once the helicopter lifts, it keeps this sideways momentum because there is no force acting against it (because the atmosphere is going in the same direction, at the same speed). The only way it slows down is if the wind or some other force works against it. And obviously in a live test that would happen - but assuming absolutely no wind, the atmosphere would have no impact at all - because it's matching the helicopter's speed. Which is presumably why it doesn't matter whether or not this happens in a vacuum. Because the atmosphere and all components involved in the process, travel at the same speed. Thus they don't act upon each other. Same for Baumgartner. Whatever he jumped from was in orbit at the same sideways speed it had when it departed. Thus he retained that sideways speed also. As he fell, then wind currents will have come into play and pushed him off course. But as you say, not by that much - because actually, he's moving at the same sideways speed as the earth more or less throughout.

I work in academic publishing in STM, and can absolutely confirm that the government does not pre-vet any of our publications for anything, let alone specifically for information concerning whether or not the earth is flat. So again, this would have to be such a thorough conspiracy that those responsible couldn't be reliant upon it self perpetuating - they'd have to be actively distorting how everyone sees the world. I thought of something else though - I'm guessing you don't believe it's possible to circumnavigate the globe? That would be testable - you could do it by plane if you really wanted to.

I think with the helicopter, it's not so much that the earth pulls it along with it, it's that the helicopter itself was already moving horizontally at the same speed as the earth - and nothing is acting against it to slow it down. Thus, conservation of momentum would apply. The atmosphere is also matching this speed, so doesn't act on the helicopter (assuming no wind).

I found it. Damn Freudian slips..

...it was? I have absolutely no memory of this

I don't think many people on here would consider me to be someone who follows the standard school of thought tbf. I seem to spend half my forum posting time arguing with people about the wider failings of Western civilisation. It's why no one likes me anymore But even I'm struggling with your position here. There is clear evidence refuting your theory, and no "non-theoretical" evidence in support of it - and the only basis upon which to challenge that is to question the legitimacy of absolutely every aspect of our society, and indeed I would argue, every person you meet. That's such a big jump that for it to make any rational sense, surely, you would have to have actual physical evidence of the claim. That's for you to be satisfied by it as a position, as someone with a skeptical mind, I would argue.

Also, what if you can clearly see the point at which the disappearing ship meets the sea (which you can)? Surely that means that a whole section of the horizon has not only been omitted, but that the rest of the picture has 'shifted down' to accomodate this loss?

Ok but... Wolfy, you're now saying something that we can see with our own eyes isn't real and is a distortion of the light as it hits our eyes. That's a level up from 'everyone is lying to us' - you're now saying we can't even trust our own senses. On that basis, surely if you did go to space, and did observe the earth as a sphere, couldn't you just argue that it remained a trick of the light?

Have to say we're far more likely to go for a foreign, overseas model. At £20m maybe we can make that work but still...

Surely no way we should be blowing £30m on one player...

Well, that and the fact that the financial crisis happened on Labour's watch (not that they were responsible for it). The Tories would have never been elected without it though, so it's hard to imagine a scenario where they're in charge for such a melt down. Or it would have been, until Brexit.

Somewhat wishful thinking but agreed, that's special

Indeed. If it was made up, then the guy who made him up instead becomes the most influential person throughout all of human history. Either way, someone is responsible for it whether the man himself or the guy who invented him. 2000 years man In 2000 years from now, will anyone from this time period be remembered (in the same sense) at all? The only person I can think of is Trump, and only if he triggers some form of event which brings about the end of existence. And even then, no one would be left to remember him anyway!

You do love to twist my words. It could distort inflation considerably, yes. Presumably the BOE would be able to regulate this to a degree though? And if it went up 69% we'd be in real trouble.

I can see that from a logical point of view but your average guy on the street won't have a clue who Constantine was. Jesus is known throughout the world, has had wars fought in his name hundreds of years after his death, and still to this day has millions of people worshipping him. The more I think about it, the more astounding it becomes.

There is evidence that he was a real person, and accounts outside of christianity to corroborate it. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/14/what-is-the-historical-evidence-that-jesus-christ-lived-and-died I'm personally fairly certain he existed, everything he is supposed to be notwithstanding. What I find remarkable about the whole thing is that this one man has probably had the biggest influence on the world, for the longest period of time, of anyone who has ever lived. I wonder if, at the time, he had any concept at all of what he would become.

The only positive impact on the people on benefits would be to encourage those few who are just idle to actually find a job, so yes, I'd agree otherwise. One thing with raising it quickly though - you're saying it's gone up 69%. That would beat inflation comfortably, and would mean that actually, in the short to medium term, it has made people better off.

If everyone gets a two quid rise, the business owners are worse off. At least temporarily, anyway (before pricing adjusts itself to reflect the new levels of wealth present through society). The real purpose of minimum wage, I think, is to protect workers in an environment where we have more capacity than demand. If we pegged CEO salaries against staff incomes, we'd actually be able to address actual inequality to a degree. Raising minimum wage sounds good but achieves little. That said, every time it goes up in our company we have to pay a good number of other people more as well, in order to keep up pay bandings and employee motivation to excel. Once you get to executive level though, the difference becomes irrelevant - the pay is so much higher that it doesn't really even matter.

If we sent you up into space, and you were able to look at the earth, would you believe it then? As another question, what would it do to your worldview if you were given incontrovertible proof of the earth being a sphere? To answer the same question from the other side, if I was given absolute proof that the earth was flat, it would probably cave in all remaining trust (little as it is) that I have in any information given to us in society. Principally because for such a secret to have been kept, you would need an entire class of people living separate from the rest of us. No one from our 'group' could ever be allowed to reach a position where they could independently verify this for themselves or the secret would be out. It would actually be a Matrix style reckoning. I consider it absolutely implausible that none of the people who are in positions where they are able to verify whether or not the earth is a sphere would not have shared this, so it would have to be an international conspiracy aimed at maintaining a divide between two class groups.

Actually quite pleased about that

That said, I think this is an elaborate ruse to wind up enough people that they all chip in to get him into one of the first commercial spacecraft

There was an actual experiment done to prove the curvature of the earth. It can be easily redone. The Bedford level experiment I think? Guy in a boat in a canal. The canal stretches off into the distance and the guy disappears over the end of it as he hits the horizon. Proving that the earth can't be flat. You or I could replicate this easily.