manc-mag

Aye, FCUM's bum cheeks. By agreeing with Stevie then having a sly dig at HTT? How are you today anyway? seething you twat!

Aye, FCUM's bum cheeks.

Fair enough like and I'm not saying he's without any appreciation of the funding of football pre and post Sky, but for me he hasn't got the faintest clue why the media are obsessed with Man U. His view seems to be (and i quote) 'they're newsworthy because they're successful'. Well yes they are, but they were newsworthy when they werent successful too and will continue to be newsworthy when they arent successful again. And why was this? .....thats the difference and it is down to Munich. Find me another factor that's unique to them that could account for it. The one Euro cup win in '68? (as FCUM would like you to believe). Nah. Sorry. Doesnt explain it. Only makes sense if you accept that by that stage they were lauded because of Munich. ...and have continued to be ever since.

That's nearly as good as "Failure is like a disease to Kevin Keegan....one with no cure." It was more than a business card, it was more like a "here ye gan shag wor lass", Benfica was like "shag wor lass and her sister." Munich was the most pivotal moment in English football history. Sorry that's bull Stevie, you're very knowledgeable about the history of football so I'm a bit taken aback by that comment. TV, the European Cup and 66 was the pivotal moments in English football history, that and the offside law which NUFC played a huge huge part in. Munich heralded the start of people supporting teams from outside of their local area. Clubs like Bury, Rochdale, York etc... could all get 18-30,000 before the war and in the 50's because the local club was the be all and end all. My grandmother came from Accrington, she's dead now, she was a huge Accrington Stanley fan, but she like the majority of people in her area all changed their allegiance when Munich happened. Speak to anyone of that generation, it was the main news every day for a month, a country was in mourning, it was the biggest thing since the war. If you notice after the boom of the late 40's and 50's, attendance wise crowds started to decrease significantly across the board, apart from clubs that were winning things, it was all a result of a chain of events started with the Munich Air Disaster. Man Utd became a club who were now the nations favourite, the first lot of Busby Babes were decimated, the sympathy that the club received was unparalelled. A generation of young fans and football supporters in general, were consumed by the romantic search of their holy grail which was rebuilding the club and eventually laying the ghosts of Munich to rest by capturing the European Cup. Munich was the catalyst for clubs gaining fan bases far beyond their local area, speak to any old twat they'll tell you the same, shortly after Liverpool's style under Shankly started to develop their fan base along with the advent of televised football and the World Cup win, but Munich was the catalyst, and is the key reason why as long as there is football as we know it Manchester United will be the biggest club, they always have been since 1958. Ps, HTT.......I didnt mean any offence before (genuinely), but the above argument epitomises the reason why I didnt address your points. Without a knowledge or interest of anything pre SKY then you fail to undertsand the historical context of everything.

That's nearly as good as "Failure is like a disease to Kevin Keegan....one with no cure." It was more than a business card, it was more like a "here ye gan shag wor lass", Benfica was like "shag wor lass and her sister." Munich was the most pivotal moment in English football history. Sorry that's bull Stevie, you're very knowledgeable about the history of football so I'm a bit taken aback by that comment. TV, the European Cup and 66 was the pivotal moments in English football history, that and the offside law which NUFC played a huge huge part in. Munich heralded the start of people supporting teams from outside of their local area. Clubs like Bury, Rochdale, York etc... could all get 18-30,000 before the war and in the 50's because the local club was the be all and end all. My grandmother came from Accrington, she's dead now, she was a huge Accrington Stanley fan, but she like the majority of people in her area all changed their allegiance when Munich happened. Speak to anyone of that generation, it was the main news every day for a month, a country was in mourning, it was the biggest thing since the war. If you notice after the boom of the late 40's and 50's, attendance wise crowds started to decrease significantly across the board, apart from clubs that were winning things, it was all a result of a chain of events started with the Munich Air Disaster. Man Utd became a club who were now the nations favourite, the first lot of Busby Babes were decimated, the sympathy that the club received was unparalelled. A generation of young fans and football supporters in general, were consumed by the romantic search of their holy grail which was rebuilding the club and eventually laying the ghosts of Munich to rest by capturing the European Cup. Munich was the catalyst for clubs gaining fan bases far beyond their local area, speak to any old twat they'll tell you the same, shortly after Liverpool's style under Shankly started to develop their fan base along with the advent of televised football and the World Cup win, but Munich was the catalyst, and is the key reason why as long as there is football as we know it Manchester United will be the biggest club, they always have been since 1958. Agreed completely. The publicity which has always followed (I know the Munich generation of fans would all be 50's plus or dead now, but they've had kids who have had kids etc) has left Man U in a unique position fan base wise domestically. And ythis knocks on- I stand by my earlier point re the 'Asian' money- I know huge money only came in at the start of the 90's, but Man U would have reaped this even if they hadn't been winning everything because domestically the media would have pandered to the armchair reds anyway as they had done for the previous 30 years. Consequently when the foreign interests came in to snap up the Premiership coverage they'd still have been force fed Man U and consequently they'd still all have pumped their money into Merchandise United. This is preciseley my point re the media favour/goodwill. You cannot underestimate the influence of that sort of publicity.

Grrrrrrrrrrr tbh

I think there are just two really accepted ones, the Greek and the Latin version, i.e. Patroklos or Patroklus. Is Patrokles really used in the English translations? I do beleive Smeeagain has become a classic Patroklos, Patroklus and Patrokles walk into a bar......

Am I right in thinking you started watching Newcastle/following football in 1994? FANTASTIC No actually, 92-93, proper bandwagon jumper me. Seriously mate, no thats great. Pretty sure you said your first game was Villa '94. Now I know youre not in your teens so the bandwagon jumper thing were your words not mine but I wont dispute it. No offence intended but I make it a point not to debate with the SKY generation of fan.

Am I right in thinking you started watching Newcastle/following football in 1994?

If I can put it in other words, it's like having the whole media as your PR company, constantly promoting your interests. Other clubs dont have this and if you dont think this puts you at a competitve advantage then like I say, the discussion just can't proceed sensibly. It's the norm to you so I understand that you don't appreciate/can't accept that, but seriously, I can assure you, it makes you the exception! I'm not trying to make light of any achievements by the way. What you win you win on merit and that applies to all teams. Fair do's. It's the sanctimonious 'Man Utd the religion' attitude that gets me. And that above all other things is symptomatic of fans bred on media favouritism. You think you're better because youre treated better. Proof positive tbh.

But you're still avoiding the question! Nobody is arguing that Munich didn't increase the popularity but the discussion is about wealth. To date, you've not produced a single argument as to how Munich significantly added to the clubs wealth. Did these sympathisers go to games, buy replica shirts, or what? I've already said that I think Man United being the dominant club in the 90s when the export boom to Asia was at it's height and being the first English team to win European cup in 68 with Bestie et al were significant factors in adding to the wealth. I'd still like to hear your take as to how Munich contributed financially. The 60's with the European Cup win and Best, Law and Charlton are a massive factor I must agree. Even my Dad had time for Man Utd then and he likes them about as much as I do Shut up Alex you cock. FCUM....you choose the '68 final win as an example of how it added to the wealth-why? (apart from whatever the token winners sum/gate receipts etc amounted to) Was the ground suddenly swamped with Jap merchandise crazed TV executives? No. That example is just as nebulous as mine on your logic, it's just it sits easier with you to cite it as its an example of you winning something rather than just becoming popular as a result of a random tragedy. The Munich distaster is and always will be the genus of the whole phenomenon of English football holding Manchester United up above all other things. The European cup win was one win ffs. Never mind that you were the first English club. Liverpool dominated Europe and never got the media arse licking/sympathy you lot did. Jesus look at the Sun's reaction to Hillsborough for an example of how other clubs get it. Ditto Newcastle-the anti toon/anthing remotely north of London with the exception of Man U is ridiculous. Obviously the Asian exports in the 90's have put extra pounds on the balance sheets and more so probably than any other individual factor in recent years, but my point is simply that the goodwill of the press/media........just simply keeping the profile of your club in the public eye constantly, serves as a means of upholding standards at your club, promoting the interests of your club, publicising your club and ultimately, generating wealth for it. If you hadnt won all those trophies in the 90's the fact is you'd still have been arse licked by SKY and treated as an exception/constantly plastered over the TV because of the home TV audiences. FACT! Not that that generates income of course.

Look at the slope on the pitch and the old bench seats in the East paddock!

When I breach 15 stone I'm always heartily ashamed.

@ that Villa blob.

Greek style sex is up the Gary Glitter (Toonraider told me ). But aye, it relates to classical literature. Not that I've read any. Is toonraider always taking it up the shitter like? I've read plenty of the classics and the last thing I want to imagine when I do is Rick Parfitt dishing out brown wings to all and sundry. See the Has the Nasty Swearing Man Gone Yet? Thread Have you the Illiad or the Odyssey btw? I keep meaning to give one a go on holiday one year? "Bumraider!" PS give the Iliad a whirl at some point, of the two.

Greek style sex is up the Gary Glitter (Toonraider told me ). But aye, it relates to classical literature. Not that I've read any. Is toonraider always taking it up the shitter like? I've read plenty of the classics and the last thing I want to imagine when I do is Rick Parfitt dishing out brown wings to all and sundry.

Why are the Greeks gay then? Is it just because of references in early classical literature and it's stuck?

Kept them all since a kid. Only one I never bought was the one with the sheriffs badge on the back. Fucking horrible. A few of mine went the journey as they were so wrecked. Wish I still had the umbro one with NUFC in the shape of a ball of the badge (that peeled off more with each wash). Remember that shitty Bukta kit too? My first kit that one, in a V neck and aye the badge is shot to shit on it. Classic that one, think they were re-producing it recently, just without the umbro diamond logo. Bukta one was just before my time like. Hard to go wrong with a classic design like black and white stripes but the barcode and rusty sheriffs badges were monumental fuck ups.

Kept them all since a kid. Only one I never bought was the one with the sheriffs badge on the back. Fucking horrible.

Why have you got a Liverpool shirt? Particularly that one, which is hideous.

PMSL As usual you haven't even given an argument for your statement Let me refresh your memory, the discussion between FOP and I centred around if Man Utd's wealth was generated by Munich. My counter argument is that in that era over 90% of a clubs revenue was generated through the turnstiles. In the 5 years after Munich Man Utd's total attendances were LESS than the 5 years that preceded it. On that basis I don't think Munich made a telling contribution to the wealth of the club. Now enough of your usual bullshit & bluster. Let's hear your facts that prove otherwise. I'll not waste too much time on this one as I know you're an intelligent lad and I suspect you're just playing a bit dumb, but seriously do you have any idea how much the goodwill and publicity (to the point of pre-occupation) of the UK and international press and media is worth to your club? If you don't see yourself as a 'special case' in this regard then I don't see that the argument can proceed sensibly. I love the way you think the 'wealth that was generated' by Munich can be measured by the relative turnstile statistics five years either side of the disaster.

Just for the record though, Man U will win it this year.