ChezGiven

Bush was too stupid to lead on anything, he got into power because of the powerful lobby his family connected him to. Those youtubes at least remind you of the insane depths of stupidity, dishonesty and dangerous ideology that dominated the neo conservative agenda at the turn of the century. The unthinking assumption behind Renton's dismissal of Bush's press conferences as him 'just being stupid' is that it's easy to stick a man in the White House, you can put any idiot there. This may be true, but it's wrong to assume that the people who put him there were even remotely stupid. I think its overall on reflection less plausible to believe that the event was just coincidentally impeccably and perfectly timed 10 months after Clinton's soft Middle East foreign policy came to an end and the whole of the extreme right of America was itching to establish the US military in the Middle East than it was allowed to happen because of how perfectly it fitted with their agenda. I'm not saying I'm convinced one way or the other, the benefit of over a decades worth of hindsight points to it being a remarkable coincidence. A question that has kept me wondering was how come they flew 2 planes into the WTC after Clinton's soft policies and only 10 months of Bush but after an invasion of 2 Middle East counties that took hundreds of thousands of Muslim lives no further attacks ever occurred? Because they banned liquids over 200ml on flights? The historical arc of foreign policy doesn't make sense either. The US was under threat from terrorists, it was part of the mainstream political narrative, there were multiple threats, something went massively wrong with the biggest and richest homeland defence on the planet in spectacular style. The incompetence of knowing who these guys were and allowing it to happen is of course a scandal in itself and must be horrendous for those who lost families and colleagues. That incompetence is very convenient though, it came with nearly a decade of military and economic benefits that seriously enhanced the wealth of the neo con cabal at the heart of the then US government.

The first one shows you that in Bush's mind, Iraq and 9/11 are inextricably linked because that's the link he wants everyone else to make as that what the strategists are telling him. It's the biggest Freudian slip in the history of mankind. The second one looks like he is lying. But no, you want to 'believe' he is telling the truth because you're a rationalist and don't believe in conspiracies. Fair enough.

I found it quite stressful to listen to.

Death penalty?

I dont think it comes down to any of that and you're either making a point about US intelligence knowing about the risk of attack or you're not. The so what? is so they did know and they were aware so at the very least they were incompetent. Again, a serendipitous incompetence, every cloud has a silver lining and all that. Watch the video. I dont believe in 'them' either but just because you cant imagine the networks of political and military lobbyists, think tanks, pentagon officials, intelligence officers, neo-conservatives that can form around foreign policy agendas, doesnt mean they dont exist. That doesnt mean a group like this planned anything, we know intelligence was aware of the activities of the saudis but they let them carry on, this later was blamed as a break down in communication between the CIA and the FBI. I have my doubts, too convenient.

The US needed 9/11 to kick off in Iraq and Iraq is explicitly connected with 9/11 Did Bush know about 9/11 before it happened? Just look at his face when responding I'd also ask that you read this again "We knew prior to the events of 9/11 that the islamists, and in particular Bin Laden's group, were waging a war against US interests (first WTC attack, USS Cole, African embassies), that's pretty much a fact. In my opinion (and we are talking opinions here because there are no facts or evidence), I just don't think the US intelligence agencies anticipated anything like the 9/11 attacks happening, nobody did" And tell me it makes sense. We knew Bin Laden was waging a war, there had been 3 very big attacks on the US but no one anticipated a big attack? Just more little ones? Its preposterous to think they were not expecting it and, in my view, preposterous that serendipity was the only factor that advanced their whole neo-conservative agenda.

Keeps you thinking clearly.

Is that what the NHS calls analysis? That doesnt even make sense. I'll spell it out for you. The evidence that 9/11 was a series of events that would be used to develop the US's military presence in the middle east is the fact that the US started 2 wars in the middle east after 9/11 and used 9/11 repeatedly as the justification for the 2 wars. What you're saying is that it was just pure serendipity, mere coincidence that this event came along 10 months after this gang get into power. Pure chance that it gave them the platform to invade 2 countries they've been saying they should invade since before they had power. You see, to me, that razor you wanted to use, it cuts in the complete opposite direction to the one you are claiming it does.

Not many. In executive decision-making, the number is actually only one person with the executive power. I'm not referring to the president, just an understanding of decision-making domains, rights and execution. One person can make all the difference.

Evidence A: Iraq Evidence B: Afghanistan

Why a large conspiracy? You obviously dont know anything about how the global system for monitoring, verification and inspection of weapons at the UN works. Getting a Swedish liberal independent to fake WMD's is a piece of piss? What ? Occam's razor is irrelevant, thats a tool for pure theory. What you are trying to invoke is the old adage that the simplest explanation is often the most accurate, keep-it-simple-stupid etc. However, lets test it out, which of these has the least credulous assumptions: 1. neo-conservative super power which has explicitly stated its desire to establish military bases in the middle east, to oust Saddam Hussein and to open up new military theaters whilst in opposition in 1999, has opportunity within 10 months of coming to power due to an unforeseen and unprecedented attack on US soil. The attack comes perfectly timed to establish a two term president and the time required to implement this stated military strategy. The fact that Bush has stated his desire to do all this in opposition and the WTC attack comes at the beginning of his first presidency, that this attack is unprecedented in peace time and is the absolute perfect vehicle to justify a massively immoral and horrendous war is just all pure fucking coincidence. 2. It wasnt a coincidence but was allowed to happen by military intelligence itching to implement the strategy.

Nothing barbaric about putting a violent and dangerous animal down.

Its fun having someone this potty around. I'd agree about the 'amount' of time being wasted by some people.

There are not lots of definitions and pretty much every one applies itself to the act of the 20 Saudi Arabians. If you have no problem at all believing that fanatics from Islam committed a huge conspiracy, then you should also have no problems believing that a few fanatics from within the heart of neo-conservative america could also act in a way that led to the events we saw occurring. I posted links to one such fanatic group's website earlier on, its members include Jeb Bush. I dont think you orchestrate Islamic fundamentalists when you are a neo-conservative, you just let them get on with whatever they are planning.

20 Saudi Arabian conspired to blow up the World Trade centre. You might want to refer to the dictionary's definition of 'conspiracy' before asking questions like that. Whats incredible is that during the run up to the attacks, this conspiracy to blow up the twin towers was kept secret and of all the people who must have known, no one let it known or blabbed their mouth about it. Amazing to think that such a massive attack could have been kept secret....

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm The history of the 20th century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire. The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American leadership. 1998 - How to attack Iraq. http://www.newamericancentury.org/AttackIraq-Nov16,98.pdf http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraq-092898.htm I like this quote from here http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf ESTABLISH FOUR CORE MISSIONS for U.S. military forces: • defend the American homeland; • fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars; • perform the “constabulary” duties associated with shaping the security environment in critical regions; • transform U.S. forces to exploit the “revolution in military affairs;”

One thing i find absurd is castigating someone as a 'conspiracy theorist' when the official explanation is of a conspiracy. Also, and its not really related to anything being discussed, there are social psychologists who believe vast swathes of the world's population are suffering (or suffered) from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder due to witnessing 9/11.

Martin Sheen and Woody Harrelson set for 9/11 'truther' film September Morn Hollywood is to court controversy with a film that will challenge the official version of the events of 9/11, a previously taboo topic for the industry mainstream. Martin Sheen, Woody Harrelson and Ed Asner, who have all supported conspiracy theories about the terrorist attacks, have signed up to the movie, which is entitled September Morn. Styling itself as a drama in the tradition of Twelve Angry Men, the film's advance publicity note hints at a cover-up, saying: "We the people demand that the government revisit and initiates a thorough and independent investigation to the tragic events of 911." Details of the film, which is to be directed by BJ Davis and written by Howard Cohen, are expected to be revealed at an American Film Market conference in Los Angeles next week, Deadline.com reported. The production has been set up by Fleur de Lis Film Studios, which has also made the documentary A Noble Lie, about the Oklahoma City bombing, and Operation: Dark Heart, a feature based on an intelligence agent's memoirs. Until now Hollywood has steered clear of claims that the Bush administration, or other elements in the government, may have been behind the 9/11 attacks, in which hijacked passenger planes crashed into the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and a field in Pennslyvania. The fourth plane was apparently en route to the Capitol. Oliver Stone, who has challenged official history in JFK and other films, steered clear of conspiracy theories in his 2006 film World Trade Center, which focused on the heroism of police and rescuers. September Morn has assembled a cast linked to the so-called truther movement, which alleges official inconsistencies, complicity and cover-up. Sheen, who starred in Apocalypse Now and television's The West Wing, has long questioned whether Islamist hijackers single-handedly brought down the Twin Towers, killing 2,605 people. "I did not want to believe that my government could possibly be involved in such a thing, I could not live in a country that I thought could do that – that would be the ultimate betrayal," he told an interviewer in 2007. Sheen grew suspicious after his son Charlie, also an actor, alerted him to apparent contradictions, such as how a structure known as "Building 7" fell. He said: "However, there have been so many revelations that now I have my doubts, and chief among them is Building 7 – how did they rig that building so that it came down on the evening of the day?" Asner, who has won seven Emmys, has several times urged a new investigation into 9/11. In 2010, he told an interviewer: "This country – which is the greatest, strongest country that ever existed in the world, in terms of power – supposedly had a defence that could not be penetrated all these years. But all of that was eradicated by 19 Saudi Arabians, supposedly. Some of whom didn't even know how to fly." Harrelson, who starred recently in The Hunger Games, has also supported the self-styled 9/11 truth movement. September Morn is also the name of a Neil Diamond album and a painting by the French artist Paul Émile Chabas which hangs in New York's Metropolitan Musuem of Art.

It's a Spanish grape originally, the mix with mourvedre and cinsaut is recommended for recipes with chilli in. I'm a total addict to Bordeaux so I don't know a lot about Bandol tbh, it was recommended to me and I'd definitely pass that on if you're looking for something to go with spicy Asian style food. We had this one http://www.laidiere.com/ The main thing I love about wine is that it lives and gets better in the bottle, the one we had tonight would have kept for 25 years apparently and got better each year. No one really knows why either. I know I sound like a tosser but once you've got kids on the firm and yer lass gives you shit about going to the pub, getting into wine becomes the acceptable face of alcoholism.

Doing a beef stir-fry tonight, with a lovely piece of steak. Cut into fine strips and coat it in five spice, salt & pepper. Stir-fry with garlic, red onion, ginger, chilli, carrot. Give it a mix, hoy some honey, soy sauce and sesame oil then fresh coriander, then serve. Going to serve it with a Bandol which is a mix of Grenache (spicy), Mourvedre (tannic) and Cinsault (soft) grapes. Blends of grapes with blends of flavour.

Aye those chinese are right fat bastards.

Dirty racist cunts. People tend to forget they were Nazis.

He's a racist wanker.

What a bunch of utter mugs.

What is logic?