ChezGiven

Not arguing he has been crap, just not that good to deserve the accolade when there are better midfielders doing better jobs in more successful teams. He looked fucking 'pony' up against Tiote. The 'player's player' of the season is literally a playground popularity contest. For the record, which games did Parker single-handedly get West Ham the points this season? I thought the whole team played well against Liverpool, not a one-man show at all. Which other games do you have in mind?

If you take a neutral view on the board, there are reasons to be optimistic. What i mean by that is that you dont need to expect them to be positive (or act in a way they ought to / we expect them to) for the outlook to be positive. A neutral outlook is 'the minimum you'd expect the board of NUFC to provide the management over the summer'. In this case, the minimum would be a concerted effort to keep Enrique, ensure Tiote stays, replace Carroll and not much more. Obviously we need a couple of extra bodies and if Larsson, a defender and an attacker came in and no-one left, we'd be right to be positive (given clubs closest to us dont massively improve their squads). If you look at the margins between 1 point and 3 points this season and the performances of the team, you know we have been rarely out-played, for the most part are always in the game and have drawn quite a few we should have won. However, the scenario that looks most likely is on the one hand bringing in a player like Mouusa Sow whilst at the same time selling Enrique to Liverpool and not really addressing the squad issues. If this is the case, then as much as luck could have seen us 6 to 9 points better off this season, it could see us 6 to 9 points worse off next season. Thats a real concern until the end of the summer.

Tiote has had a better season than Scott Parker. I've seen him play a few times, especially the Liverpool game when everyone was raving about him. I just thought Liverpool were dreadful that day. Parker has stood out in an average team, put in blood and guts performances but has demonstrated very little finesse in his game (as he has very little) and does not in any way deserve the accolade of the Premiership's best player. In fact i'd say that both Barton and Tiote have both been better than Parker and thats based on their performances in games won/drawn against the best sides i.e. in determing positive results for their club, something Parker hasnt done that many times obviously. They certainly pissed all over him when we played them home and away.

Stoke have looked better than us both times we played them, good enough to get to a cup final anyway. They deserve to be ahead of us tbh.

Man U fans look a bit glum.

Great evidence that has swung me round.

What evidence do you have for this 'muted' reaction to winning the league?

I don't think that was the original question. It was about the determinant of fan happiness, his admission that relegation is relevant means you can't look at the trophies in isolation, so the impossibly stupid hypothesis falls down.

So if birmingham get relegated and man u win the champions league, the brummies will be happier?

The point being that Man U reach their full potential all the time, Birmingham dont. The moment might have been better for the Brum fans but they only get one moment every 30 seasons, rather than great moments every season. You need to add them up, not look at one in isolation.

I've highlighted the part I'm addressing. That's exactly my whole point! You've gone round the world and come back where you started In football you cannot be happy all the time. No matter who you support, you'll have good times and bad times, Birmingham as well as Man U. Which brings us back to my own point. In football you cannot buy happiness!!! Abramovicz has had to learn that lesson the hard way, as Chelsea fans glumly win Cups and nonchalantly win leagues. At the start of this season, people expected us to be at the bottom of the league and would have happily taken mid-table. If we continue along the same trajectory, we will become accustomed to finishing mid-table and will receive the news of another mediocre finish more glumly than that of a fan of a club who has won the league again. If all expectations eventually become aligned to reality, the impact of expectations is the same no matter what team you are. Then, in your world, all fans are unhappy, with the least unhappy ones winning trophies. As already explained a mid-table or lower club who exceeds expectations will be momentarily happy but will by definition return to the mundanity of their mid-table status. Anyway, all fans hate losing and it makes them unhappy. Teams that lose more frequently are more frequently unhappy. If you spend money and win more, you'll be happier more. The law of diminishing returns says that the value of winning decreases over time if you repeat it but thats about smaller marginal gains in happiness, not the absolute level.

Well, you are perfectly welcome to think Man U's constant wins mean they are 80% happy every week. If Birmingham stay up, it will give them another burst of happiness, but of course we don't take that into account do we. Whether I was a Man U fan, or a Torquay fan, I'd always be happy whenever my team exceeded expectations (in Man U's case that can only mean winning the Champions League). But in general, I'd feel very depressed if winning the Prem had become a humdrum experience. That is why I'd rather support any other team than Chelsea or Man U, and, in a few years when City fans have become blasé, they too will be in that category. I'll admit that City fans are on a high now because of the money. But the Chelsea fans prove that this is a high which doesn't last many years. You really dont get it do you. A team can only exceed expectations once in a while. If they do it all the time, that change the expectations. So you can not by definition be happier all the time because of exceeding expecations as they will adjust. The whole premise of what you are saying falls apart right there. Also, you have no idea about what really makes fans happy. In Manchester, the things that make Man U fans happy are bragging rights over City and Liverpool, based on their success. I expect when Man U beat Liverpool's 18 titles they will celebrate it harder than ever before. Have you been to Stamford Bridge to hear how the atmosphere and crowds have been declining since Abramovich took over? I think the idea about expectations is interesting but to not get that being at the top of the league all the time is the best place to be is unforgivably stupid.

Seeing only titillation / viewing figures in the value of such a programme is narrow minded. Its classic public service broadcasting.

Tiote is worth more than Arteta.

I think that's a bit strong actually. I think no one else gives a fuck I take it back. No one else but Chez gives a fuck Measuring quality of life / utility / happiness is part of my job. I also had an overwhelming desire to make him pipe down for some reason.

Lets put this happiness on scale of 0 to 1. With 1 being the happiest and 0 being the unhappiest. As Birmingham got twatted 5-0 at Anfield this weekend, where were they on the happiness scale? Near 1 because they won the Carling Cup or near 0 because they'd just been utterly tanked and reminded of the exact nature and quality of the squad? Your idea Nick is coherent for the days and possibly weeks following the victory. Let me demonstrate why you are talking through you cake-hole mathematically though. The average happiness level of the Birmingham fan will be determined by their average performance over a season. Lets say for 345 days, their score is 0.5. Man U fans as they win all the time have a score of 0.8. In the 20 days that follow the Carling Cup, the Birmingham fans are at 1. In the 20 days following the CL win, Man U fans are at 0.9. As you correctly say, the spike in happiness is bigger for the Birmingham fan, they double their normal happiness, whereas Man U only add 12.5% to their happiness. Add the scores up over the season (345 x 0.5 + 20 x 1 < 345 x 0.8 + 20 x 0.9) and Man U fans have a bigger happiness score. The elation may be bigger after and unexpected victory but the general happiness level will be lower for the poorer performing club. A bit like cheap pills, the buzz may be higher but you've still got to comedown.

Does she also think she is psychic?

Fuck off.

Clearly Obama's fault.

Was flipping between the Cardiff QPR match, 4 decent goals, Routledge played well and Tarabt looked great. Thats QPR up basically.

Aye - conceded in all of them too, I think. Its what i thought. I've put a few bets on there being goals on each side.

I'd rather Man U win the league than anyone else.

Its not a question of disagreeing, claiming these last two seasons were better than 95-97 is not an opinion. Its either an illness or a wind up.

They have scored in every single home game this season, haven't they?