NJS

Unfortunately politics isn't about good policies or making sense by and large - it's about emotive reactions to people and ideas. I think we all agree Corbyn falls short in the "good leader" stakes but it's also a matter of long held attitudes that won't change - things like demanding a leader who worships the queen and is willing to nuke millions still holds sway. That now includes brexit which is reduced to zealots on both sides and neutrals completely bored with it who want it to end anyway possible. I'm beginning to think Johnson fluking a semblance of May's deal through might not be that bad as I think there's enough room in the political statement to soften it to an acceptable level if Labour did win (I might be wrong on this).

That's what I meant - as I've said somebody has to try to talk to both sides but too many bloody minded remainers will now vote lib dem, not get a second ref and will get 5 years of that corrupt fraud as pm.

Sensible but fatal is still my view.

I agree - I've always said the way to solve education and health in the UK is to abolish the private option as the powers that be would take 5 minutes to fix them if they had to use them but that would have to be done gradually. As you say it will frighten people who think of themselves as middle income (they aren't) and bow down to privilege.

I'm all for the bringing the country together view but that needs power and he's killing the chance of that imo. To be honest I can see this causing a leadership challenge which I'm okay with as long as it isn't an out and out centrist who prevails.

Joelinton's transfer stinks more an more each week. Lad tries but if he's worth 40m then the game is a lot more fucked than I thought. Wilhems is fucking shit as well.

Hysteria for Andy Carroll - fucking hell, that's how shit we are.

The alternative being domination by 250 individuals a good portion of whom are appointees from the NL era. Labour was always criticised for being run by union barons casting block votes - Milliband put control in the hand of members just like the other parties - you just don't like those members.

I think that kind of bargain suggested by Thornberry was mooted when those talks took place with May earlier in the year but the tories think another vote is completely out of the question.

I saw a poll yesterday where the (still alive) people who voted in 2016 was 52-48 leave and including new voters it was 52-48 remain. Aside from assuming victory ignoring what's is still half the country seems dubious. It also shows the arguments since have been so shit they haven't any visible effect.

I think it was wrong for Brown as well (even though he offered to go) - the GE is fought on a manifesto which may have negotiation room but a leader is the party's business.

She's going to pull the Clegg "change your leader and we'll talk" trick which is fucking disgusting to me.

Swinson was interviewed yesterday and mocked the tories for spending money and alluded to tough choices suggesting more austerity. I saw it suggested she's positioning them as Cameron's tory party leaving Johnson more akin to ukip which I sort of agreed with. As a few people have also suggested her aim is to try and win 30 or more seats rather than to stop brexit.

Tranmere.

I was quite impressed at what a bunch of world-weary, cynical cunts we all are - especially Ewerk obviously.

The "clean break which means the whole thing is done and dusted" narrative seems particularly pervasive and is the one that needs challenging. Trying to explain that even if none of the doomsday scenario happens there'll still be months/years of negotiations is a fucking hard task.

Well if we do leave on the 31st, there'd be no echr to prevent restoring Capital punishment for treason....

Jail time for the queen for accessory.

That's what I was trying to say the other day - it makes sense but it's a bad sale to the zealots on both sides. Or the hard of thinking for that matter.

Cameron and Osborne introduced cuts to disabled benefits that even Ian Duncan Smith couldn't stomach. Nowt beats that morally.

His wife wa running.

Well it took 5 seconds of me switching on the GNR to calling Cram a Mackem cunt (He mentioned Gabbiadini).

I've seen bits of it here and there without seeing a full Ep and it looked pretty good to me. Don't they try and excuse the accents by selling the family as Irish immigrants?

This should be way to get at the libs - ask them what kind of deal should be on there. If they were honest they'd say sod the vote, let's just revoke - still pretty voteable for a shit load of people but they'd have to up their game on the why. I think the vote itself was definitely corrupted and obviously mis-sold but it's still a big thing to ignore it.

I think Corbyn has suggested that when he's talked to the EU they've been more receptive to his redlines that the tories (though I think his vision isn't soft enough). As I said the second vote zealots have been very coy about what they think should be the other option('s) because they assume they'll win - I don't see anything wrong in making an alternative thats the best possible just in case - though I can see that may reduce the chances of an outright victory for remain. I think smugly putting no deal up against remain assuming an easy victory could bite them on the arse. I do agree the campaigning question (against their own deal) is difficult but there's nothing that bad about "we want you to vote remain but if you can't at least the other option isn't that bad" in my view - though I can see it's attackable.