NJS

Red was harsh like - punching away when bobbling around the six yard box is different to "saving" a shot on the line imo. Good pen from the shit cunt as well.

I've tried to explain why Liverpool and Spurs are streets ahead of us but then again apart from 7 or 8 years they always have been. As I've said before you need more than having a good run over 10 years even to overwrite 130 years of football. I enjoy Stevie's Geordie nationalist rants as much as anyone and agree with the "we could and should rule the world" thrust at the centre of that but to start thinking we are a bigger club than the 5 clubs who've won more trophies than us and have always had bigger gates leads to justifying shite like Matthew Saed's piece that time about how deluded we are. I'm also sick of reading this "2nd biggest crowds" line which people still spout as if the Emirates hadn't opened. The sad fact is that if Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea had sorted out bigger grounds we'd be sixth on that score as well though you wouldn't think it given some of the "52k every week" hyperbole. It's great that we have the ground as it is but we shouldn't think it makes us a special case. Of course if we had won the league in 96 and continued the momentum till now we'd have been sitting pretty but I think we'd still have found it hard to better Man U, Chelsea and now Man City simply in spending terms. Even if we'd started making £50m profits that wouldn't compete with the latter two.

Sorry Stevie but that's shite - the only way to increase turnover that much would have been by success on the pitch and ground expansion - how likely was that in 2007? give it a rest man, we aren't talking about fucking 2007, we are talking about the bigger picture ie the aims, strategies and direction of the club. Look I enjoyed the good times as much as you but if you can't see it was all going into a decline from 2006 onwards to the extent that the Halls were actively looking for a way out then you're blind. I'm no financial expert but your stock "maximizing revenues" phrase and Stevie's assertion above have to be called out - if you can explain how a business which was going backwards and was seeing its competitors get more investment could somehow double its turnover then fair enough - replies like "Shepherd was a good bloke - he would have done it somehow" are crap.

Sorry Stevie but that's shite - the only way to increase turnover that much would have been by success on the pitch and ground expansion - how likely was that in 2007?

I know that - I was just suggesting that now that that debt is gone (however it was done) it leaves you in a stronger position to invest more in players - either from profits or from credit/investment. If Ashley had really written off his loans to us as his lickspittel has suggested in the past then that would have put us ina similar position. Unfortunately recently he has gone back more to quoting his full investment suggesting he wants that back before he does anything else. As you suggest the simple idea that the best way to get that money back via on the pitch improvement has been lost. did you really believe that ? We are more in debt than when he bought the club man, we just owe him the money, this has been pointed out numerous times by many people. The club is in decline. The price that was mooted last summer suggested there was a point where he had "forgotten" about the 110m at least - I think once he realised we could quite easily go back up he changed his mind and decided to play a longer game at least for now.

I know that - I was just suggesting that now that that debt is gone (however it was done) it leaves you in a stronger position to invest more in players - either from profits or from credit/investment. If Ashley had really written off his loans to us as his lickspittel has suggested in the past then that would have put us ina similar position. Unfortunately recently he has gone back more to quoting his full investment suggesting he wants that back before he does anything else. As you suggest the simple idea that the best way to get that money back via on the pitch improvement has been lost.

You might be right - but I think he was under pressure as he'd only won the spanish cup and Real were dominating- - I think Van Gall was lined up though.

Problem was that until the end of the 70s, the capacity was adequate so there was no reason to expand or even to redevelop apsrt from for prestige. By the time the work needed to be done, the credit was available to do so - something that would have been a problem in the past. Of course the redevelopment of the east stand and planned Leazes was very small-minded but again those men had no wealth.

I dont see it like that at all. He had a contact with Barca and wanted to see it out. I believe he never broke a contract in his life. Thats honourable for me and clearly something the game lacks these days. Possibly - my thought at the time was that Hall should have bribed Barcelona into sacking him which would have suited all parties as they'd already moved him upstairs by then.

Robson turned the job down in 97 post Keegan - I know it goes against the grain to criticise the man but I always felt he deserved some for that - as others have said he was keen only when he had nothing else.

I agree - unfortunately they sold to someone who didn't. We need Ashley's pockets to stop going bust sadly.

The owners took advantage of good timing within football and a good manager. I remember KK saying when we got promoted and he told Hall he was aiming to win the league, Hall didn't believe him as they'd never envisaged that - it was KK who drove the initial ambition. I actually agree with whoever it was who said going PLC and John Hall taking a back seat is what really ended the momentum - after that it was all money we didn't have being spent and increasing desperation which is why its Shepherd I criticise more than John Hall. Their model wouldn't work now as they never injected capital themselves - that's what I keep trying to argue is why its no good holding their ways up as relevant for the situation now - in the current times we unfortunately need Ashley's pockets as is true for almost all the clubs in the country.

Man Utd - no chance Man City - no chance Arsenal - no chance Chelsea - no chance Liverpool - as I've said used generated funds to buy new players and as the Livepool fan said will probably spend a fair bit in the summer. they are a long way ahead of us. Spurs - used transfer profits over the last 4 years to build a squad which is a lot better than us The latter two is a level I'd like to aim for and I accept your argument that there's nothing wrong with that but they are streets ahead of us - that's simple realism without millions being spent which is what I keep saying. So where does that leave us? - you keep mentioning Blackburn but I'd say its more Villa, Everton, the Mackems and "functional" teams like Stoke. That is the next tier and thinking that we can compete above that is unrealistic - again as I keep saying "accepting" that Ashley won't invest. The funny thing is if a new owner did come in and try and do the same turnover expansion as the previous regime using revenue and loans only, you're probably talking a maximum spend of £50m - do you think that would give us a better squad than Spurs or Liverpool? you've just said how Spurs and Liverpool are aiming higher than we are, now. I like how you concede inferiority to Arsenal, where exactly do you think they will go when Wenger goes and if they don't make a similar calibre appointment ? Nothing is permanent, that is a fundamental you and others appear to fail to grasp. We have one of the biggest clubs and fanbases in the country, there is simply no excuse for any owner not attempting to capitalise on it. They are aiming higher because obviously they have better owners - what I'm saying is that they have funded most of their recent squad building by either transfer profits or debt in Liverpools case which has then been written off. At the end of the day they still have lot better squads than us which is why its unrealistic to expect competition in the immediate future. Arsenal will have to be judged when the new owner shows his hand - they may have a lot of money to spend to go with a much better academy than us at the moment. If you want to predict how things will be in 5 or 10 years time then good luck - obviously we agree we should be going all out but I think its going to be difficult given the present situation. As I've said before I've never been able to figure Ashley out and to a large extent I don't think he know what he wants either. We are of course the victims of that but I don't see the point of railing against it until things become clearer.

Man Utd - no chance Man City - no chance Arsenal - no chance Chelsea - no chance Liverpool - as I've said used generated funds to buy new players and as the Livepool fan said will probably spend a fair bit in the summer. they are a long way ahead of us. Spurs - used transfer profits over the last 4 years to build a squad which is a lot better than us The latter two is a level I'd like to aim for and I accept your argument that there's nothing wrong with that but they are streets ahead of us - that's simple realism without millions being spent which is what I keep saying. So where does that leave us? - you keep mentioning Blackburn but I'd say its more Villa, Everton, the Mackems and "functional" teams like Stoke. That is the next tier and thinking that we can compete above that is unrealistic - again as I keep saying "accepting" that Ashley won't invest. The funny thing is if a new owner did come in and try and do the same turnover expansion as the previous regime using revenue and loans only, you're probably talking a maximum spend of £50m - do you think that would give us a better squad than Spurs or Liverpool?

while respecting the views of others, before they get their knickers in a twist [fao Renton, Gloomy, NJS etc or anybody else who is allowing personalities to get between themselves and obvious logic] that is as straightforward, and spot on as you will find. Why fuck about ? Tell it like it is. Keegan, particularly, is a genuine NUFC hero and will stand the test of time, long after Mike Ashley will go down in history as nothing but a bad smell and those who are even attempting to make excuses for him dragging the club downwards like he is doing will also be shown up to be the tossers that they are, although they will probably disappear and come back under different usernames. It's about prespective - given our history since the 50s then both were huge sucesses and will be seen as such by all Newcastle fans but the lad was making the point that from an outside perspective they weren't successful. It may grate when Man Utd or Liverpool fans take the piss out of Keegan/Shearer/NUFC for the lack of trophies but from their pov they are within their rights to do so - as I said the view that we went shit or bust, threatened them for a while then fucked off is perfectly valid for them. Of course if its Mackems or any other fuckers like Villa trying to tke the piss then they should be shot. and what do they think now ? We don't threaten them anymore ? In actual fact, most of the fans of other clubs I have met, all said during the times of Shearer/Keegan etc that NUFC are a club that should always be at that sort of level. Don't suppose you will accept that though, and harp on about Ashley being good for the club again despite taking it into decline. I'd imagine that Man U fans are quite realistic and realise their only realistic rivals are Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City and probably Liverpool. I do agree we did threaten them and a lot of them enjoyed that threat as far as it went as despite the hatred they do have a lot of "decent" football fans who recognise what NUFC are all about and thought we deserved to be at that level. Now they realise what I keep trying to say to you - unless Ashley or someone else decides to spend big then we won't threaten them again - I've never disputed that and I'm sure among your posts youu realise that as well. The best we can hope far is to be at the top of the next "tier" but what you can't accept is that the other clubs at that level are "shit" ones. Your usual accusation about me supporting Ashley is of course wrong but then I expect nothing else.

He was obviously shit during said world cup though.

aye. My mam. Without going all Frank Lampard its just coming up to 5 years since my Mam died and its also 20 years later this year since my Dad died and I've been thinking about them both more than ever lately.

Most recently Alan Smith - thought he was a really good player previously and can't fault his attitude but his all encompassing shitness has been very disappointing.

while respecting the views of others, before they get their knickers in a twist [fao Renton, Gloomy, NJS etc or anybody else who is allowing personalities to get between themselves and obvious logic] that is as straightforward, and spot on as you will find. Why fuck about ? Tell it like it is. Keegan, particularly, is a genuine NUFC hero and will stand the test of time, long after Mike Ashley will go down in history as nothing but a bad smell and those who are even attempting to make excuses for him dragging the club downwards like he is doing will also be shown up to be the tossers that they are, although they will probably disappear and come back under different usernames. It's about prespective - given our history since the 50s then both were huge sucesses and will be seen as such by all Newcastle fans but the lad was making the point that from an outside perspective they weren't successful. It may grate when Man Utd or Liverpool fans take the piss out of Keegan/Shearer/NUFC for the lack of trophies but from their pov they are within their rights to do so - as I said the view that we went shit or bust, threatened them for a while then fucked off is perfectly valid for them. Of course if its Mackems or any other fuckers like Villa trying to tke the piss then they should be shot.

^ It would be funny to ask them why they think spelling is the exception to the way they normally spell ll/ing words

Driven through it - looked like just a typical English market town - nowt special. Did however have a night in Newmarket after Ipswich years ago which was indeed excellent.

That was more a high offside line that failed rather than being too attacking I thought.

He's right, baring in mind I only really saw the second half, but what I did see was the most biased referee I've seen since Brian Coddington at the Baseball Ground in 1992. Ronaldo is a diving cunt, but he must've been fouled 10 times without a free kick been given, and any time a Barca player fell he blew up. Mourinho is right, all the referees are up their arse, and I for one can't stand the club, self righteous, look at us, UNICEF, aren't we're morally correct gods. Well no you're a bunch of mugs, Messi is the only player in that club who isn't a dick, Alves and Mascherano, being two of the biggest arseholes in world football. Hope Man Utd embarrass them, and I think they have a fighting chance because without doubt they have the best defence in world football in my view. That disallowed goal was a disgrace imo - if the ref really thinks for one second Ronaldo "brought down" that cheating piece of ex-scouse shit he should be banned from football forever. Agree on the UNICEF thing as well. I went to Barcelona for both games and though I love the city in general their fans are the worst of a so called world class team I've come across.

Yes but whats the answer? If he won't put his money in and won't borrow (even if it were possible) then calling him out for an obvious failing is pointless - that's why the realsitic among us are trying to suggest that SOME of the other facets of his owenership in the present economic and football climate aren't that stupid. Discovering cheap talent and then selling it later might be painful but if its the only way to keep the club going until a decent owner does come along then that's just the way it is.

You see if you actually recognised that that team was going nowhere and had actually only just escaped the threat of relegation with a decent amount of team spirit under a bloke the players liked then people could accept it. To try and gloss over that season as some kind of staging post for improvement is delusion at its best - as we saw the next year all too well. The season before Ashley bought it we finished 13th - or do we ignore that? before Mike Ashley bought the club we were considered to be one of the top clubs in the country, and to qualify for europe, among players, sportswriters, the general public, and our own supporters, was expected. Borne out by the booing when we only finished 5th. Stick to the facts. Now we think survival is "fine" and 10th is success, this is the words of the clubs 2nd in command. If we finish 13th now or next season, they will be ecstatic. End of. Look for another stick lad. As I said completely ignoring the final year and the state of the squad at the time. Your mistake is in perception - you think we are/were seen as having arrived by the football world and everyone expected us to remain there forever. The truth is most football fans and certainly the media saw us a as a team who'd gone shit or bust, failed and had now dropped back down to where they think we should be. Do you think fans of the "big four" honestly thought that with Roeder or Allardyce at the helm we were going to finsh anywhere? - especially as by then Chelsea had "arrived". Were Wenger or Feguson scared of Roeder? Do you think we would have finished in the top 6 with Allardyce given that during the takeover summer we actually spent what would be classed by then as atypical "Shepherd" type spend? When did your powers of foresight kick in about Ashley BTW? - was it only when he fucked up the Keegan thing beacuse before then his deicisons were indisinguishable from Shepherd's.