NJS

That would be the Western governments who needed a new bogeyman - you really need to watch The Power of Nightmares. So the "bogeymen" who commited Lockerbie, 9/11, 7/7 and the failed exploding undercrackers are figments of my government fuelled imagination, ah ok It was a two way thing - Islamic extremists needed a cause because they saw the "corruption" of Middle Eastern countries as evil and the Western governments were happy to encourage them and in some cases fund and train them. Even in the Islamic world "moderate" countries like Egypt were happy to have an enemy they could use to oppress dissent. Like most conflicts in the last 100 years involving "terrorism" there have been bastards on both sides as bad as each other - including "moral" governments of course. September the 11th was an undoubted atrocity but to claim it was "undeserved" or out of the blue given previous US actions is naive.

And all rucksacks just in case of course.

That would be the Western governments who needed a new bogeyman - you really need to watch The Power of Nightmares. haven't you just said in the other thread that being "unproven" doesn't necessarily mean "innocent" and advocate the taking out of someone "obviously responsible" You really think we should bear the cost of other countries torturing and imprisoning people ? No wonder this country is losing its way. Theres a difference bewteen Bin Laden and a few daft students who are misled into trying and failing miserably to join a cause. The point is torture is completely illegal and doesn't even work - as others have said today you either take the moral high ground and obey the law or you go down to the other person's level. If you do the latter then you should be prepared for payback.

The "human rights" you mock so easily are exactly what gives you the right to hold and express your views. The weren't handed down from on high - they had to be fought for over centuries. Now you want to chuck them away because you're scared of women in veils.

That would be the Western governments who needed a new bogeyman - you really need to watch The Power of Nightmares.

My usual reaction to lies of this magnitude are to ask who the fuck do they think they are actually talking to when they spout them? I can remember years ago watching Geoffrey Howe on Question Time stating that the UK had no chemical or biological weapon capability or facilities and thinking the same. I can take politicians being economical with the truth, sometimes with complete honesty and ignorance, but when their lies are so stupidly brazen I don't think they realise how daft they look.

Don't know about here but I've had a good experience with another message board - a few very good friends made.

I was just talking to someone the other day how generally we've gone wrong since about the 17th century in that the people who run wars never get involved or suffer and things would have turned out differently if instead of thousands of cannon fodder dying, hit squads had just gone in and killed people like the German Kaiser or more recently Martin McGuinness (and his equivalent). hmmm.......advocating the murder of "innocent until proven guilty" people by SAS/SBS teams then ? No I'm talking about bringing the war to those obviously responsible on a personal level. That does not include people where there are doubts or collateral civilians.

I was just talking to someone the other day how generally we've gone wrong since about the 17th century in that the people who run wars never get involved or suffer and things would have turned out differently if instead of thousands of cannon fodder dying, hit squads had just gone in and killed people like the German Kaiser or more recently Martin McGuinness (and his equivalent).

Yeah but I didn't get the impression they were simply Israelis with European passports - maybe my mistake.

Surely the Israelis wouldn't need outside contractors? I suppose it could be a double bluff of deniability.

Blackcurrant jam - though I haven't particpated for years.

I was reading something a few weeks ago which was about how airport and airline staff are really starting to get off on their new found power which is backed by some pretty serious laws. It mentioned another case in the US where a bloke complained a stewardess was rude to him only to find himself met by fedaral marshalls on landing and being accused of crimes akin to terrorism - it took the intervention of 5 other passengers backing his side of the story for them to back down.

Just started using this in the gym after being pointed in its direction by Brock a few weeks ago and its great: SanDisk

I wouldn't expect the Yanks to be shy - I remember going to the Navy museum in New York which has a submarine you can go in and they have a hatch/doorway thing on the quayside with a sign which basically says "If you can't get through this then fuck off".

I can see the logic of the policy when you get those more than 25st people but Smith was never that as I said. I went to Singapore with work 5 years ago in business class and the bloke next to me on the way back who was Samoan was a proper fat cunt - he needed a seat belt extension and couldn't operate the recliner. It was a little awkward but if it had been in economy it would have been a nightmare.

I saw him about 4 years ago and while certainly fat, he wasn't a "stereotypical American fat bastard" then.

They always mention 1948 as being the date when their ideal racial mix existed - I suppose there were a couple of tokens about which means they can justify the membership thing at a push. It will be funny to see Sikhs or whatever claiming they are part of British culture whereas the real enemy (Muslims obviously) aren't.

This might be the place to describe a completely fucked up dream I had the other night. It involved me somehow being given immense power over things - the American President (not Obama) and the Pope of all people (not the Jorman) both "handing over" their titles to me which then saw me trying to negotiate the purchase of NUFC - not from the FCB but from John Hall and Shepherd who arrived in a helicopter flown by And & Dec. I was handed a piece of paper saying I had £271m to spend but then Hall said he'd sell for £30 cash which I didn't have on me but a quick whip round produced. A conversation then started talking about contacting all of these managers - Ancelotti being the only name I remember but then I just said "what the fuck are we even talking about this for - Keegan's going to be the manager If the parallel universe theory of dreams is true then all the suffering in this one is at least balanced in others - or I'm in serious need of psychiatric help. Happy birthday KK.

I think so - not a bad thing - surely we can get some kind of decent form for when we play them

I find it amazing how many teams in this division which I still class as poor, have midfields generally filled with players who are better than ours at football basics like short passing and retaining possession. I have a lot of time for Nolan's stuff about the team spirit and he does epitomise the pretty good way the team have responded to going down but the bloke is a fucking shit footballer and he's really starting to piss me off. I'm also getting pissed off with how Guthrie has started doing too many Parker-esque pirouettes.

I've said before I don't care about England - though I wouldn't mind seeing them do well - slightly schizo there I admit. Cole is the epitome of why I hate so many footballers - great player but the periphery is fucking horrible.

That was the theory with Owen (and as I've said before he deliberately took his comeback easy imo) but it can lead as in that case to being prone to niggles and/or more serious injuries. I have to admit to a part of me being happy if the odious piece of shit misses the world cup.

Agreed but tempered by lack of any empathy/sympathy for UK farmers.

Does that include the benefits to industry or just from a state viewpoint?