Why does Sam need more time???

[Guest Patrokles]

It's a tricky situation because in my opinion, he shouldn't be sacked unless we have a high-calibre replacement already ready to step in and take the job, rather than risking a sideways step. But the only way to do that is to sound people out before Allardyce is gone, which could potentially undermine his position severely if anyone gets wind of it.

 

The strange thing to me remains the shocking difference between the reputation Bolton had when he managed them, and the way the current Toon side are playing. There has to be some kind of reason. Either Sam genuinely needs more time, or he's trying too hard to provide a brand of football that's a half-arsed compromise between his stoic kind, and the kind everyone claims the Geordie public want. Caught between two stools, he delivers neither.

 

But it's bizarre in the extreme to see such a massive disparity.

[trophyshy 6443]

It's a tricky situation because in my opinion, he shouldn't be sacked unless we have a high-calibre replacement already ready to step in and take the job, rather than risking a sideways step. But the only way to do that is to sound people out before Allardyce is gone, which could potentially undermine his position severely if anyone gets wind of it.

 

The strange thing to me remains the shocking difference between the reputation Bolton had when he managed them, and the way the current Toon side are playing. There has to be some kind of reason. Either Sam genuinely needs more time, or he's trying too hard to provide a brand of football that's a half-arsed compromise between his stoic kind, and the kind everyone claims the Geordie public want. Caught between two stools, he delivers neither.

 

But it's bizarre in the extreme to see such a massive disparity.

 

 

Essentially then you're saying he's constipated?

[Happy Face 29]

The Devil's Advocate thing was just a joke really as I remember you weren't too keen on him but you're one of the only ones willing to give him a chance now. Rightly or wrongly. Rightly, I hope.

 

I'll always give my full support to the man in charge...if I think the alternatives are no better. I've always thought he was a cornflake box headed, clueless charlatan (you saw the bit I did on N-O about him being a complete fake), but even so, I know he has some ability. I hope and pray he can turn it around and shove those words down my neck and will back him to do so until he's not at the club or a manager of real quality issues a come and get me plea.

[Guest alex]

The Devil's Advocate thing was just a joke really as I remember you weren't too keen on him but you're one of the only ones willing to give him a chance now. Rightly or wrongly. Rightly, I hope.

 

I'll always give my full support to the man in charge...if I think the alternatives are no better. I've always thought he was a cornflake box headed, clueless charlatan (you saw the bit I did on N-O about him being a complete fake), but even so, I know he has some ability. I hope and pray he can turn it around and shove those words down my neck and will back him to do so until he's not at the club or a manager of real quality issues a come and get me plea.

That's the thing really. If he goes it's Shearer - it's not like it's Marcello Lippi waiting in the wings. I know I've said I have a good feeling about Shearer's managerial ability but that's all it is - a feeling. Seems a bit daft to ditch Allardyce for that. It would be different if we were in dire straits but we simply aren't and there are a few teams poorer than us imo.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

The Devil's Advocate thing was just a joke really as I remember you weren't too keen on him but you're one of the only ones willing to give him a chance now. Rightly or wrongly. Rightly, I hope.

 

I'll always give my full support to the man in charge...if I think the alternatives are no better. I've always thought he was a cornflake box headed, clueless charlatan (you saw the bit I did on N-O about him being a complete fake), but even so, I know he has some ability. I hope and pray he can turn it around and shove those words down my neck and will back him to do so until he's not at the club or a manager of real quality issues a come and get me plea.

That's the thing really. If he goes it's Shearer - it's not like it's Marcello Lippi waiting in the wings. I know I've said I have a good feeling about Shearer's managerial ability but that's all it is - a feeling. Seems a bit daft to ditch Allardyce for that. It would be different if we were in dire straits but we simply aren't and there are a few teams poorer than us imo.

 

Agree with that. Even though ive said Shearer shouldn't be here as his first job and that it could all go very wrong, deep down i feel it could just work with him here and you'd hope he would get more from the fans than alot of other managers.

 

But i just don't want the complete farce and mess and following upheavals and starting from scratch yet again having scrapped aother season by sacking Allardyce. He's driving us all insane with the messed up tatctics and players out of position combined with not attacking teams, but we won't go down, he will/has improved the club in other areas of proffesionlism and whilst he now doesn't look like the answer i thought he was i'd rather keep with him for some semblance of stability till the end of the season and see where things go from there.

[Dr Gloom 20139]

It's a tricky situation because in my opinion, he shouldn't be sacked unless we have a high-calibre replacement already ready to step in and take the job, rather than risking a sideways step. But the only way to do that is to sound people out before Allardyce is gone, which could potentially undermine his position severely if anyone gets wind of it.

 

The strange thing to me remains the shocking difference between the reputation Bolton had when he managed them, and the way the current Toon side are playing. There has to be some kind of reason. Either Sam genuinely needs more time, or he's trying too hard to provide a brand of football that's a half-arsed compromise between his stoic kind, and the kind everyone claims the Geordie public want. Caught between two stools, he delivers neither.

 

But it's bizarre in the extreme to see such a massive disparity.

 

 

Essentially then you're saying he's constipated?

 

i lol'd at that

[Noelie 103]

If you are going to compare it to a proper job, the only measure of performance is the.................................................

 

But management is a proper job Mr. Rico, albeit in Football, Manufacturing, Sales, or whatever business is dependent on results.

I was production manager at a boat-building company in California which had a sister plant in Virginia that was having difficulties meeting production schedules. I was sent to the Virginia plant for as long as it took to straighten the place out, I was back in 5 weeks.

However, in the meantime the company hired a production manager to replace me in my absense. He had a track record of being a competent production manager with the Caterpillar company back East, he lasted 30 days before they let him go. The methods, ideas, and know-how he brought with him from his previous work-place were not compatable with the work-force at his new job and schedules fell behind in quick time.

[Guest Patrokles]

If you are going to compare it to a proper job, the only measure of performance is the.................................................

 

But management is a proper job Mr. Rico, albeit in Football, Manufacturing, Sales, or whatever business is dependent on results.

I was production manager at a boat-building company in California which had a sister plant in Virginia that was having difficulties meeting production schedules. I was sent to the Virginia plant for as long as it took to straighten the place out, I was back in 5 weeks.

However, in the meantime the company hired a production manager to replace me in my absense. He had a track record of being a competent production manager with the Caterpillar company back East, he lasted 30 days before they let him go. The methods, ideas, and know-how he brought with him from his previous work-place were not compatable with the work-force at his new job and schedules fell behind in quick time.

 

There's a bit of a difference.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

The two seasons prior to Robson coming in, we finished 13th under Dalglish and 13th under Gullit. After Ruud was sacked, Robson guided us to safety in 11th. The following first full season under Sir Bob we finished 11th again. That summer he bought Bellamy and Robert and we finished 4th, 3rd and 5th in the three following seasons.

 

Last season we finished 13th.

 

So if it took Bobby virtually two full seasons to turn us around, why are you expecting Allardyce (or anyone else for that matter) to do it in 15 games?

Edited December 3, 2007 by Dr Kenneth Noisewater

[Jimbo 133]

The two seasons prior to Robson coming in, we finished 13th under Dalglish and 13th under Gullit. After Ruud was sacked, Robson guided us to safety in 11th. The following first full season under Sir Bob we finished 11th again. That summer he bought Bellamy and Robert and we finished 4th, 3rd and 5th in the three following seasons.

 

Last season we finished 13th.

 

So if it took Bobby virtually two full seasons to turn us around, why are you expecting Allardyce (or anyone else for that matter) to do it in 15 games?

 

 

Performance > Position

[Happy Face 29]

The two seasons prior to Robson coming in, we finished 13th under Dalglish and 13th under Gullit. After Ruud was sacked, Robson guided us to safety in 11th. The following first full season under Sir Bob we finished 11th again. That summer he bought Bellamy and Robert and we finished 4th, 3rd and 5th in the three following seasons.

 

Last season we finished 13th.

 

So if it took Bobby virtually two full seasons to turn us around, why are you expecting Allardyce (or anyone else for that matter) to do it in 15 games?

 

Not my argument, but other threads have said Robson finished 11th with style (8-0 wins and that) and the players looked like they knew what they were doing (or had been told what to do properly). You can tell by looking that the current squad don't.

 

I've just been looking through Robsons transfers though, and between september '99 and June '01, I don't think a single one made an imact on the first team. Robson went slow and steady all the way. I've said it before, but Allardyces problem is getting all these new players looking like they have a clue what each other are doing. Whether or not it was a mistake to let so many players go/bring so many in in one go during summer is debateable. The fact that Robson did it over 21 months speaks volumes for how an experienced head goes about it imo though.

[Noelie 103]

If you are going to compare it to a proper job, the only measure of performance is the.................................................

 

But management is a proper job Mr. Rico, albeit in Football, Manufacturing, Sales, or whatever business is dependent on results.

I was production manager at a boat-building company in California which had a sister plant in Virginia that was having difficulties meeting production schedules. I was sent to the Virginia plant for as long as it took to straighten the place out, I was back in 5 weeks.

However, in the meantime the company hired a production manager to replace me in my absense. He had a track record of being a competent production manager with the Caterpillar company back East, he lasted 30 days before they let him go. The methods, ideas, and know-how he brought with him from his previous work-place were not compatable with the work-force at his new job and schedules fell behind in quick time.

 

There's a bit of a difference.

 

Very true Mr. Patrokles, skilled, semi-skilled, unskilled, male & female players on my team to be drilled & trained into a results oriented cohesive group who get the job done more often than not, doing it MY way.

Who's Sam got to work with and what's he doing?

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

The two seasons prior to Robson coming in, we finished 13th under Dalglish and 13th under Gullit. After Ruud was sacked, Robson guided us to safety in 11th. The following first full season under Sir Bob we finished 11th again. That summer he bought Bellamy and Robert and we finished 4th, 3rd and 5th in the three following seasons.

 

Last season we finished 13th.

 

So if it took Bobby virtually two full seasons to turn us around, why are you expecting Allardyce (or anyone else for that matter) to do it in 15 games?

 

 

Performance > Position

There were some shit performances mixed in there as well though, Jimbo. They seemed to die out once Wadsworth found a new job mind.

[RlCO 0]

If you are going to compare it to a proper job, the only measure of performance is the.................................................

 

But management is a proper job Mr. Rico, albeit in Football, Manufacturing, Sales, or whatever business is dependent on results.

I was production manager at a boat-building company in California which had a sister plant in Virginia that was having difficulties meeting production schedules. I was sent to the Virginia plant for as long as it took to straighten the place out, I was back in 5 weeks.

However, in the meantime the company hired a production manager to replace me in my absense. He had a track record of being a competent production manager with the Caterpillar company back East, he lasted 30 days before they let him go. The methods, ideas, and know-how he brought with him from his previous work-place were not compatable with the work-force at his new job and schedules fell behind in quick time.

 

Admit it, you completely made that up.

 

Even if you didn't, the only possible analogy here is if Sam was responsible for the team bus and couldn't get us to the games on time.

[Jimbo 133]

The two seasons prior to Robson coming in, we finished 13th under Dalglish and 13th under Gullit. After Ruud was sacked, Robson guided us to safety in 11th. The following first full season under Sir Bob we finished 11th again. That summer he bought Bellamy and Robert and we finished 4th, 3rd and 5th in the three following seasons.

 

Last season we finished 13th.

 

So if it took Bobby virtually two full seasons to turn us around, why are you expecting Allardyce (or anyone else for that matter) to do it in 15 games?

 

 

Performance > Position

There were some shit performances mixed in there as well though, Jimbo. They seemed to die out once Wadsworth found a new job mind.

 

I can't disagree mate, but one major difference is that we weren't scratching our heads at basic managerial decisions like we are at the moment.

[Noelie 103]

If you are going to compare it to a proper job, the only measure of performance is the.................................................

 

But management is a proper job Mr. Rico, albeit in Football, Manufacturing, Sales, or whatever business is dependent on results.

I was production manager at a boat-building company in California which had a sister plant in Virginia that was having difficulties meeting production schedules. I was sent to the Virginia plant for as long as it took to straighten the place out, I was back in 5 weeks.

However, in the meantime the company hired a production manager to replace me in my absense. He had a track record of being a competent production manager with the Caterpillar company back East, he lasted 30 days before they let him go. The methods, ideas, and know-how he brought with him from his previous work-place were not compatable with the work-force at his new job and schedules fell behind in quick time.

 

Admit it, you completely made that up.

 

Even if you didn't, the only possible analogy here is if Sam was responsible for the team bus and couldn't get us to the games on time.

 

Actually I didn't make that up, it really happened.

I guess what I'm trying to point out is that a competent person should be able to take the tools he is given, add to them, assess the situation, recognize where the problems lie, and in a workmanlike manner begin to smooth things out and show a gradual flow of progress in the right direction. Not have the flow going in the wrong direction, and I don't think it matters whether it is football or any kind of occupation that requires good management skills and the ability to make things work.

[Fop 1]

Are you just playing Devil's Advocate over Allardyce now HF?

 

No. It's just the same as with Roeder. People tearing their hair out and screaming blue murder with no kind of objectivity or alternative. Whatever happened to this kind of attitude....

 

Alex has no truck with such things, once the hair has gone there is only anger and rage.

[blaugrana909 0]

Hello Newcastle fans,

 

I'm a new member on this forum, but I've been reading it for quite a while. I've been a barcelona fan for my whole life, but one of my friends is a huge newcastle fan and a member of this forum, so I have started following Newcastle a bit too. Just thought I'd make a few comments about this managerial situation.

 

When Barcelona first hired Frank Rijkaard, we too were promised tales of glory. However, in November of his first year, we were sitting in 10th place, and were just about the laughing stock of Spain. Everyone was calling for Rijkaard's head. He had tons of players at his disposal, but was unable to make them do anything on the pitch. However, our president stuck with him instead of firing him. In January, he hired a new assistant coach, and brought in a new defensive midfielder to help out the back line. Our team was unbeaten the entire second half of the season, and finished in 2nd place after almost being in the RELEGATION ZONE earlier in the season. Yes, in Rijkaard's first season, we were almost in the relegation zone.

 

But look at where we are since. After his first year, he got rid of a lot of underperformers from before, brought in youth players from the academy, and bought good new talent. From being close to relegation zone in 2003, we were the best team in the world in 2006 when we won the La Liga and the Champions League.

 

My point is that good managers, no matter how clueless they seem, should be given time. I'm not saying you guys will win the Premiership anytime soon, but you have nothing to gain by sacking Big Sam. For all you know, Alan Shearer might get you relegated, given his experience! So give the man a chance. At least wait until the end of the year. Another thing, if you sack Big Sam, who is regarded as one of the better managers in England currently, after just 15 games, which top manager would want to join you?

 

Just what I think, thanks for reading. Hope to have good conversations with people on this board!

Edited December 4, 2007 by blaugrana909

[Guest James_coDurham]

"Instant success or out" Wankers. Hate our fans sometimes, if you lot would switch places with the mackems, at least we'd get chance to see what a manager can do before getting on his fucking back.

[Happy Face 29]

Who actually thinks we should sack Allardyce either now or following the Arsenal match? It seems there's an abundance of threads fretting about it when only 4 or 5 people actually want rid, rather than just being a bit unhappy with the start he's made. I think Jimbo, Wacky, Jaysouthernmag, Noelie and Sammy want rid immediately. Who've I missed?

[Guest alex]

Who actually thinks we should sack Allardyce either now or following the Arsenal match? It seems there's an abundance of threads fretting about it when only 4 or 5 people actually want rid, rather than just being a bit unhappy with the start he's made. I think Jimbo, Wacky, Jaysouthernmag, Noelie and Sammy want rid immediately. Who've I missed?

Smooth Operator? I'm guessing the fretting comes from the media stories.

Edited December 4, 2007 by alex

[Park Life 71]

Who actually thinks we should sack Allardyce either now or following the Arsenal match? It seems there's an abundance of threads fretting about it when only 4 or 5 people actually want rid, rather than just being a bit unhappy with the start he's made. I think Jimbo, Wacky, Jaysouthernmag, Noelie and Sammy want rid immediately. Who've I missed?

Smooth Operator? I'm guessing the fretting comes from the media stories.

 

We shouldn't even be thinking about SA till the summer imo.

[Happy Face 29]

Who actually thinks we should sack Allardyce either now or following the Arsenal match? It seems there's an abundance of threads fretting about it when only 4 or 5 people actually want rid, rather than just being a bit unhappy with the start he's made. I think Jimbo, Wacky, Jaysouthernmag, Noelie and Sammy want rid immediately. Who've I missed?

Smooth Operator? I'm guessing the fretting comes from the media stories.

 

Aye, tomorrow's chip wrappers.

[Jusoda Kid 1]

Who actually thinks we should sack Allardyce either now or following the Arsenal match? It seems there's an abundance of threads fretting about it when only 4 or 5 people actually want rid, rather than just being a bit unhappy with the start he's made. I think Jimbo, Wacky, Jaysouthernmag, Noelie and Sammy want rid immediately. Who've I missed?

Smooth Operator? I'm guessing the fretting comes from the media stories.

 

Aye, tomorrow's chip wrappers.

 

Can't recall saying I want rid but I don't think I'd be losing any sleep if he was, is there a difference?

[Happy Face 29]

Who actually thinks we should sack Allardyce either now or following the Arsenal match? It seems there's an abundance of threads fretting about it when only 4 or 5 people actually want rid, rather than just being a bit unhappy with the start he's made. I think Jimbo, Wacky, Jaysouthernmag, Noelie and Sammy want rid immediately. Who've I missed?

Smooth Operator? I'm guessing the fretting comes from the media stories.

 

Aye, tomorrow's chip wrappers.

 

Can't recall saying I want rid but I don't think I'd be losing any sleep if he was, is there a difference?

 

You've been getting wet with the thoughts of Shearer your lollipop man gives you though.