Why does Sam need more time???

[jaythesouthernmag 0]

Ok, Sam has managed Bolton for 8 years, mostly in the premiership. He is a football manager, thats his trade and a bloody well paid one at that. His job is to get results and deliver silverware, which is what he was brought here to do.

 

SO after 5 months, buying the players HE wanted, working day in day out on the training ground with them why cant he get them to perform and play football?

 

We have a team of former, curent and future internationals like Viduka,Emre,Owen,Martins,Butt,Rozenhal,Given,Milner,Taylor,Smith,Barton,Geremi and Zoggy, the list goes on.

 

He is working with players of considerable higher quality and potential than he ever had at Bolton and he still doesnt look like achieving anywhere near what is expected. Loses to Derby and Reading, Draws at Boro and Mackems, home hammerings by Pompy and Liverpool, aimless longballs, players out of position, defensive problems, the list goes on

 

If any professional person took a position in another industry would they be allowed to fuck things up royaly while bleating about needing more time to do a job they have been doing successfully for 8 years, I dont think so. Why then does fatty keep insisting on more time???

 

I have seen what he can offer us and I dont like the look of it and things will get a shite site worse when we play Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea.

 

People will point to our league position, look again in Febuary and if we carry on like this we will be in the bottom 6 and another season is written off

[Jimbo 133]

He needs more time because he can't pick the right team, select the right formation, play his players in their correct positions, find the right tactics or make the right substitutions, clearly needs more time to get these basic managerial requirements right.

[Happy Face 29]

Ok, Sam has managed Bolton for 8 years, mostly in the premiership. He is a football manager, thats his trade and a bloody well paid one at that. His job is to get results and deliver silverware, which is what he was brought here to do.

 

SO after 5 months, buying the players HE wanted, working day in day out on the training ground with them why cant he get them to perform and play football?

 

We have a team of former, curent and future internationals like Viduka,Emre,Owen,Martins,Butt,Rozenhal,Given,Milner,Taylor,Smith,Barton,Geremi and Zoggy, the list goes on.

 

He is working with players of considerable higher quality and potential than he ever had at Bolton and he still doesnt look like achieving anywhere near what is expected. Loses to Derby and Reading, Draws at Boro and Mackems, home hammerings by Pompy and Liverpool, aimless longballs, players out of position, defensive problems, the list goes on

 

If any professional person took a position in another industry would they be allowed to fuck things up royaly while bleating about needing more time to do a job they have been doing successfully for 8 years, I dont think so. Why then does fatty keep insisting on more time???

 

I have seen what he can offer us and I dont like the look of it and things will get a shite site worse when we play Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea.

 

People will point to our league position, look again in Febuary and if we carry on like this we will be in the bottom 6 and another season is written off

 

A professional person in another industry would get a certain amount of time to turn around the situation without the constant ridicule of customers and the press.

 

Marks and Sparks has had a REALLY long slow climb to it's current position from it's crash about ten years back, but it's gained a modicum of success from it.

[Guest alex]

Are you just playing Devil's Advocate over Allardyce now HF?

[bassplayerjj 0]

Ok, Sam has managed Bolton for 8 years, mostly in the premiership. He is a football manager, thats his trade and a bloody well paid one at that. His job is to get results and deliver silverware, which is what he was brought here to do.

 

SO after 5 months, buying the players HE wanted, working day in day out on the training ground with them why cant he get them to perform and play football?

 

We have a team of former, curent and future internationals like Viduka,Emre,Owen,Martins,Butt,Rozenhal,Given,Milner,Taylor,Smith,Barton,Geremi and Zoggy, the list goes on.

 

He is working with players of considerable higher quality and potential than he ever had at Bolton and he still doesnt look like achieving anywhere near what is expected. Loses to Derby and Reading, Draws at Boro and Mackems, home hammerings by Pompy and Liverpool, aimless longballs, players out of position, defensive problems, the list goes on

 

If any professional person took a position in another industry would they be allowed to fuck things up royaly while bleating about needing more time to do a job they have been doing successfully for 8 years, I dont think so. Why then does fatty keep insisting on more time???

 

I have seen what he can offer us and I dont like the look of it and things will get a shite site worse when we play Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea.

 

People will point to our league position, look again in Febuary and if we carry on like this we will be in the bottom 6 and another season is written off

 

A professional person in another industry would get a certain amount of time to turn around the situation without the constant ridicule of customers and the press.

 

Marks and Sparks has had a REALLY long slow climb to it's current position from it's crash about ten years back, but it's gained a modicum of success from it.

 

And now they make the finest triple chocolate cookies and their crumpets are up there with Warbuton's.

[RlCO 0]

If you are going to compare it to a proper job, the only measure of performance is the final league table. You don't get sacked because in some people's opinion who has nothing to do with your job thinks you might not make your sales target that isn't due for 5 months yet.

[Dr Gloom 20134]

15 games isn't long enough. there are many examples of managers over the years doing nothing for their first season or two before turning things around once they've had time to build a squad....ferguson at manure and sir bobby for us to name just two.

 

there's no way of knowing whether sam will be a success for us but at least give him a season or two to see. constant chopping and changing does the club no good.

 

the only way i'd advocate sacking the manager in his first season would be if we were in a genuine relegation battle. we're not. i can see sam doing at least as well as the rodent last season. if we finish lower than we did last season then he's going to be under pressure in his second year in charge but ffs, don't sack the man after 15 games.

[jaythesouthernmag 0]

If you are going to compare it to a proper job, the only measure of performance is the final league table. You don't get sacked because in some people's opinion who has nothing to do with your job thinks you might not make your sales target that isn't due for 5 months yet.

 

In any results you will be issued an annual target BUT if after 4 or 5 months you look shite and people are losing faith then you can expect the boot only football managers also get a nice wedge to go with the sack.

 

Pure and simple Allardyce isnt showing any promise of hitting his Targets (top 6/a cup/sorting the defence) after 16 games and only playing one of the big 4, conceeding 24 goals and looking toothless upfront.

 

Not my idea of development really, Maybe I was expecting more than a relegation fight when we got Sam

[Happy Face 29]

Are you just playing Devil's Advocate over Allardyce now HF?

 

No. It's just the same as with Roeder. People tearing their hair out and screaming blue murder with no kind of objectivity or alternative. Whatever happened to this kind of attitude....

 

Big Sam may not be the man to lead us to trophy after trophy but i'll take him because he's a forward thinking manager who'll sort us out off the pitch aswell as on it.

 

Fair enough, people have got a reason to be skeptical after Freddy's last few appointments but Allardyce is probably the best manager we can hope for at this moment in time. Aslong as we don't start going backwards as we have under Souness and Rodder's i'd be willing to give Big Sam time to tinker with the team.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Do people REALLY think we've gone backwards? Are you as unhappy with Allardyce as you were with Roeder?

 

Serious question.

[bobbyshinton 59]

Are you just playing Devil's Advocate over Allardyce now HF?

 

No. It's just the same as with Roeder. People tearing their hair out and screaming blue murder with no kind of objectivity or alternative. Whatever happened to this kind of attitude....

 

Big Sam may not be the man to lead us to trophy after trophy but i'll take him because he's a forward thinking manager who'll sort us out off the pitch aswell as on it.

 

Fair enough, people have got a reason to be skeptical after Freddy's last few appointments but Allardyce is probably the best manager we can hope for at this moment in time. Aslong as we don't start going backwards as we have under Souness and Rodder's i'd be willing to give Big Sam time to tinker with the team.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Do people REALLY think we've gone backwards? Are you as unhappy with Allardyce as you were with Roeder?

 

Serious question.

 

 

Sack the bastard now. Never liked him never will

[Guest alex]

Are you just playing Devil's Advocate over Allardyce now HF?

 

No. It's just the same as with Roeder. People tearing their hair out and screaming blue murder with no kind of objectivity or alternative. Whatever happened to this kind of attitude....

 

Big Sam may not be the man to lead us to trophy after trophy but i'll take him because he's a forward thinking manager who'll sort us out off the pitch aswell as on it.

 

Fair enough, people have got a reason to be skeptical after Freddy's last few appointments but Allardyce is probably the best manager we can hope for at this moment in time. Aslong as we don't start going backwards as we have under Souness and Rodder's i'd be willing to give Big Sam time to tinker with the team.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Do people REALLY think we've gone backwards? Are you as unhappy with Allardyce as you were with Roeder?

 

Serious question.

I think that attitude went out the window with the bizarre tactics. As for your question, it's hard to say. I knew Roeder wouldn't do wel so it was always a case of waiting until a better alternative came along. With Allardyce, at least I had faith in him doing a half decent job. I think he might just turn it around in the next couple of matches though.

[Scottish Mag 3]

If you are going to compare it to a proper job, the only measure of performance is the final league table. You don't get sacked because in some people's opinion who has nothing to do with your job thinks you might not make your sales target that isn't due for 5 months yet.

 

In any results you will be issued an annual target BUT if after 4 or 5 months you look shite and people are losing faith then you can expect the boot only football managers also get a nice wedge to go with the sack.

 

Pure and simple Allardyce isnt showing any promise of hitting his Targets (top 6/a cup/sorting the defence) after 16 games and only playing one of the big 4, conceeding 24 goals and looking toothless upfront.

 

Not my idea of development really, Maybe I was expecting more than a relegation fight when we got Sam

 

[Park Life 71]

Are you just playing Devil's Advocate over Allardyce now HF?

 

No. It's just the same as with Roeder. People tearing their hair out and screaming blue murder with no kind of objectivity or alternative. Whatever happened to this kind of attitude....

 

Big Sam may not be the man to lead us to trophy after trophy but i'll take him because he's a forward thinking manager who'll sort us out off the pitch aswell as on it.

 

Fair enough, people have got a reason to be skeptical after Freddy's last few appointments but Allardyce is probably the best manager we can hope for at this moment in time. Aslong as we don't start going backwards as we have under Souness and Rodder's i'd be willing to give Big Sam time to tinker with the team.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Do people REALLY think we've gone backwards? Are you as unhappy with Allardyce as you were with Roeder?

 

Serious question.

I think that attitude went out the window with the bizarre tactics. As for your question, it's hard to say. I knew Roeder wouldn't do wel so it was always a case of waiting until a better alternative came along. With Allardyce, at least I had faith in him doing a half decent job. I think he might just turn it around in the next couple of matches though.

 

 

Unless we're in serious trouble SA needs to be weighed up at the end of the season imo or at least till after the christmas window. There are no quick fixes in football.

[ewerk 26792]

Are you just playing Devil's Advocate over Allardyce now HF?

 

No. It's just the same as with Roeder. People tearing their hair out and screaming blue murder with no kind of objectivity or alternative. Whatever happened to this kind of attitude....

 

Big Sam may not be the man to lead us to trophy after trophy but i'll take him because he's a forward thinking manager who'll sort us out off the pitch aswell as on it.

 

Fair enough, people have got a reason to be skeptical after Freddy's last few appointments but Allardyce is probably the best manager we can hope for at this moment in time. Aslong as we don't start going backwards as we have under Souness and Rodder's i'd be willing to give Big Sam time to tinker with the team.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Do people REALLY think we've gone backwards? Are you as unhappy with Allardyce as you were with Roeder?

 

Serious question.

I think that attitude went out the window with the bizarre tactics. As for your question, it's hard to say. I knew Roeder wouldn't do wel so it was always a case of waiting until a better alternative came along. With Allardyce, at least I had faith in him doing a half decent job. I think he might just turn it around in the next couple of matches though.

 

 

Unless we're in serious trouble SA needs to be weighed up at the end of the season imo or at least till after the christmas window. There are no quick fixes in football.

 

Damn you and your voice of reason.

[zico martin 87]

If you are going to compare it to a proper job, the only measure of performance is the final league table. You don't get sacked because in some people's opinion who has nothing to do with your job thinks you might not make your sales target that isn't due for 5 months yet.

 

In any results you will be issued an annual target BUT if after 4 or 5 months you look shite and people are losing faith then you can expect the boot only football managers also get a nice wedge to go with the sack.

 

Pure and simple Allardyce isnt showing any promise of hitting his Targets (top 6/a cup/sorting the defence) after 16 games and only playing one of the big 4, conceeding 24 goals and looking toothless upfront.

 

Not my idea of development really, Maybe I was expecting more than a relegation fight when we got Sam

 

therein lies the problem me thinks

[Guest alex]

Are you just playing Devil's Advocate over Allardyce now HF?

 

No. It's just the same as with Roeder. People tearing their hair out and screaming blue murder with no kind of objectivity or alternative. Whatever happened to this kind of attitude....

 

Big Sam may not be the man to lead us to trophy after trophy but i'll take him because he's a forward thinking manager who'll sort us out off the pitch aswell as on it.

 

Fair enough, people have got a reason to be skeptical after Freddy's last few appointments but Allardyce is probably the best manager we can hope for at this moment in time. Aslong as we don't start going backwards as we have under Souness and Rodder's i'd be willing to give Big Sam time to tinker with the team.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Do people REALLY think we've gone backwards? Are you as unhappy with Allardyce as you were with Roeder?

 

Serious question.

I think that attitude went out the window with the bizarre tactics. As for your question, it's hard to say. I knew Roeder wouldn't do wel so it was always a case of waiting until a better alternative came along. With Allardyce, at least I had faith in him doing a half decent job. I think he might just turn it around in the next couple of matches though.

 

 

Unless we're in serious trouble SA needs to be weighed up at the end of the season imo or at least till after the christmas window. There are no quick fixes in football.

I agree actually but I also think he needs to prove he can put right the problems at the club* and fast. Or we will be in serious trouble. I know we've got points 'in the bank' but we've shown relegation form of late and the performances have matched the results. I don't actually believe that he's off if we lose to Arsenal though.

*Edit: that's current problems rather than long-term issues btw.

Edited December 3, 2007 by alex

[Dr Gloom 20134]

Are you just playing Devil's Advocate over Allardyce now HF?

 

No. It's just the same as with Roeder. People tearing their hair out and screaming blue murder with no kind of objectivity or alternative. Whatever happened to this kind of attitude....

 

Big Sam may not be the man to lead us to trophy after trophy but i'll take him because he's a forward thinking manager who'll sort us out off the pitch aswell as on it.

 

Fair enough, people have got a reason to be skeptical after Freddy's last few appointments but Allardyce is probably the best manager we can hope for at this moment in time. Aslong as we don't start going backwards as we have under Souness and Rodder's i'd be willing to give Big Sam time to tinker with the team.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Do people REALLY think we've gone backwards? Are you as unhappy with Allardyce as you were with Roeder?

 

Serious question.

I think that attitude went out the window with the bizarre tactics. As for your question, it's hard to say. I knew Roeder wouldn't do wel so it was always a case of waiting until a better alternative came along. With Allardyce, at least I had faith in him doing a half decent job. I think he might just turn it around in the next couple of matches though.

 

 

Unless we're in serious trouble SA needs to be weighed up at the end of the season imo or at least till after the christmas window. There are no quick fixes in football.

I agree actually but I also think he needs to prove he can put right the problems at the club and fast. Or we will be in serious trouble. I know we've got points 'in the bank' but we've shown relegation form of late and the performances have matched the results. I don't actually believe that he's off if we lose to Arsenal though.

 

i thought we were unlucky against blackburn. if we put in many more performances like the one we did against liverpool we will be in trouble....and sam will rightly be under pressure

Edited December 3, 2007 by Dr Gloom

[Guest alex]

Are you just playing Devil's Advocate over Allardyce now HF?

 

No. It's just the same as with Roeder. People tearing their hair out and screaming blue murder with no kind of objectivity or alternative. Whatever happened to this kind of attitude....

 

Big Sam may not be the man to lead us to trophy after trophy but i'll take him because he's a forward thinking manager who'll sort us out off the pitch aswell as on it.

 

Fair enough, people have got a reason to be skeptical after Freddy's last few appointments but Allardyce is probably the best manager we can hope for at this moment in time. Aslong as we don't start going backwards as we have under Souness and Rodder's i'd be willing to give Big Sam time to tinker with the team.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Do people REALLY think we've gone backwards? Are you as unhappy with Allardyce as you were with Roeder?

 

Serious question.

I think that attitude went out the window with the bizarre tactics. As for your question, it's hard to say. I knew Roeder wouldn't do wel so it was always a case of waiting until a better alternative came along. With Allardyce, at least I had faith in him doing a half decent job. I think he might just turn it around in the next couple of matches though.

 

 

Unless we're in serious trouble SA needs to be weighed up at the end of the season imo or at least till after the christmas window. There are no quick fixes in football.

I agree actually but I also think he needs to prove he can put right the problems at the club and fast. Or we will be in serious trouble. I know we've got points 'in the bank' but we've shown relegation form of late and the performances have matched the results. I don't actually believe that he's off if we lose to Arsenal though.

 

i thought we were unlucky against blackburn. if we put in many more performances like the one we did against liverpool we will be in trouble.

Yeah, we were a bit unlucky against Blackburn but we were still well beaten in the end. We've got 1 point from 18 and we were lucky to get a draw off the Mackems. You couldn't say we deserved anything out of the other matches either.

[Kid Dynamite 6082]

He needs more time because he can't pick the right team, select the right formation, play his players in their correct positions, find the right tactics or make the right substitutions, clearly needs more time to get these basic managerial requirements right.

 

Exactly How many games will it take for him to play 442 without 3 CM and a CF in midfield, our RW on the bench and our LW at LB?

 

I dont suppose Ahley is too happy that Spains best young £6million LB is deemed not worthy of a starting place either.

 

Its suicidal tactics at the minute and if sam does get sacked i dont care what anyone says, hes partly to blame.

[Dr Gloom 20134]

Are you just playing Devil's Advocate over Allardyce now HF?

 

No. It's just the same as with Roeder. People tearing their hair out and screaming blue murder with no kind of objectivity or alternative. Whatever happened to this kind of attitude....

 

Big Sam may not be the man to lead us to trophy after trophy but i'll take him because he's a forward thinking manager who'll sort us out off the pitch aswell as on it.

 

Fair enough, people have got a reason to be skeptical after Freddy's last few appointments but Allardyce is probably the best manager we can hope for at this moment in time. Aslong as we don't start going backwards as we have under Souness and Rodder's i'd be willing to give Big Sam time to tinker with the team.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Do people REALLY think we've gone backwards? Are you as unhappy with Allardyce as you were with Roeder?

 

Serious question.

I think that attitude went out the window with the bizarre tactics. As for your question, it's hard to say. I knew Roeder wouldn't do wel so it was always a case of waiting until a better alternative came along. With Allardyce, at least I had faith in him doing a half decent job. I think he might just turn it around in the next couple of matches though.

 

 

Unless we're in serious trouble SA needs to be weighed up at the end of the season imo or at least till after the christmas window. There are no quick fixes in football.

I agree actually but I also think he needs to prove he can put right the problems at the club and fast. Or we will be in serious trouble. I know we've got points 'in the bank' but we've shown relegation form of late and the performances have matched the results. I don't actually believe that he's off if we lose to Arsenal though.

 

i thought we were unlucky against blackburn. if we put in many more performances like the one we did against liverpool we will be in trouble.

Yeah, we were a bit unlucky against Blackburn but we were still well beaten in the end. We've got 1 point from 18 and we were lucky to get a draw off the Mackems. You couldn't say we deserved anything out of the other matches either.

 

nah. i was starting to lose faith with sam after the liverpool game because it looked like he'd lost the players as well as the fans. at least he got them playing on saturday. so it was a blow to lose again but i think reports of him losing the dressing room at such an early stage could be 'wide of the mark'. if that was the case and we kept on losing in the manner we did to liverpool then sam would under serious pressure. that said, the next three or four games are vital for him. i doubt many people expect us to get anything against arsenal but if we put in a performance and then pick up points in the following games, he could easily turn things around quickly. most of us have short memories when we're winning

Edited December 3, 2007 by Dr Gloom

[Guest alex]

I didn't / don't buy the 'lost the dressing room' shite either. The article in, iirc The Guardian, about it was absolutely appalling.

[Ketsbaia 0]

I didn't / don't buy the 'lost the dressing room' shite either. The article in, iirc The Guardian, about it was absolutely appalling.

 

Louise Taylor was obviously flicking her bean with delight when writing it.

[trophyshy 6443]

'Cause our love will Shirley grow.....

[Happy Face 29]

Are you just playing Devil's Advocate over Allardyce now HF?

 

No. It's just the same as with Roeder. People tearing their hair out and screaming blue murder with no kind of objectivity or alternative. Whatever happened to this kind of attitude....

 

Big Sam may not be the man to lead us to trophy after trophy but i'll take him because he's a forward thinking manager who'll sort us out off the pitch aswell as on it.

 

Fair enough, people have got a reason to be skeptical after Freddy's last few appointments but Allardyce is probably the best manager we can hope for at this moment in time. Aslong as we don't start going backwards as we have under Souness and Rodder's i'd be willing to give Big Sam time to tinker with the team.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Do people REALLY think we've gone backwards? Are you as unhappy with Allardyce as you were with Roeder?

 

Serious question.

I think that attitude went out the window with the bizarre tactics. As for your question, it's hard to say. I knew Roeder wouldn't do wel so it was always a case of waiting until a better alternative came along. With Allardyce, at least I had faith in him doing a half decent job. I think he might just turn it around in the next couple of matches though.

 

Yeah, that was aimed more at the people gnashing their teeth and baying for blood already, you've been quite level headed about the whole thing, but I'd hate to think I'd come across as a flip flopper (devils advocate). I thought I'd been quite consistent in my lack of faith in the talents of Roeder/Allardyce, my acceptance that they're about as good as we could attract, and my support for either of them while they're in charge in the hope that we get a bit of stability at the very least.

[Guest alex]

The Devil's Advocate thing was just a joke really as I remember you weren't too keen on him but you're one of the only ones willing to give him a chance now. Rightly or wrongly. Rightly, I hope.