Tooj 17 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Aye, perhaps you might be right for a two year period. Manu were already better than us when they signed Cole, do you seriously think we were not better off with Ferdinand and in the longer term Shearer, than if we had kept Cole ? ManU, if they had signed Shearer instead of Cole, would have pissed all over everybody and won even more than they did. Precisely. I sometimes struggle to get the continued adulation of Cole and the desire to keep him longer than we did. 1993/94 was by a country mile his best season and he didn't retire until 2008. With the benefit of hindsight we sold him at completely the right time. And as LM suggests, Man United with Shearer (which undoubtedly would have happened) would have been even more deadly. We definitely sold him at the right time. As a team, we came on even further once we bought Ferdinand. He gave a whole different dimension to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniffer 0 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Aye, perhaps you might be right for a two year period. Manu were already better than us when they signed Cole, do you seriously think we were not better off with Ferdinand and in the longer term Shearer, than if we had kept Cole ? ManU, if they had signed Shearer instead of Cole, would have pissed all over everybody and won even more than they did. I never said that. Read the post. I said Manu came out of that best because, IMO, getting Cole kept them ahead of us even though we improved with Ferdinand, especially in his first season. If we had sold Cole to another team I've no doubt he would've improved them as well but I think he just kept manu ahead of us and maintained that gap. Andy Cole was only 24 when we sold him and manu would look at it as money well spent considering the goals and years they got out of him. If Ferdinand had decided to stay longer instead of going back to his roots things might have been different but at least we got our money back, I suppose. I also never said we'd be better off without Shearer. I absolutely agree that if manu got AS and he kept healthy then there would not have been any point in having a season, just give them the trophy in August. In fact, give them all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6308 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 But it goes back to the point Dr Ken made several pages ago. No other club came in for Cole, no other club at that time could justifiably afford him and behind the scenes, NUFC were keen to get rid of him. I disagree that Man United getting Cole 'kept them ahead of us'. Even without him I think they'd have ultimately won the title in 1996. The difference in 95/96 was Cantona, not Cole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26479 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 I disagree that Man United getting Cole 'kept them ahead of us'. Even without him I think they'd have ultimately won the title in 1996. The difference in 95/96 was Cantona, not Cole. Agreed, that season Cole scored 11 league goals to Ferdinand's 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 But it goes back to the point Dr Ken made several pages ago. No other club came in for Cole, no other club at that time could justifiably afford him and behind the scenes, NUFC were keen to get rid of him. I disagree that Man United getting Cole 'kept them ahead of us'. Even without him I think they'd have ultimately won the title in 1996. The difference in 95/96 was Cantona, not Cole. And as I also said, he never gelled with Cantona. In 95-96 he scored 13 and in 96-97 only 7 (although he was out injured for a while). He didn't hit his stride again until they bought Yorke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniffer 0 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Not true. A few months after Cole moved, Arsenal paid a new record fee for Bergkamp so they could afford him. That's not to say they were in for him but they could afford him. Also, who is to say that Keegan shopped him around when he claimed that Gillespie was key to the deal? That was also well thought out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6308 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Not true. A few months after Cole moved, Arsenal paid a new record fee for Bergkamp so they could afford him. That's not to say they were in for him but they could afford him. Also, who is to say that Keegan shopped him around when he claimed that Gillespie was key to the deal? That was also well thought out. I can't for the life of me see money-concious Arsenal splashing out £7m on a player they'd sold for £500K less than 3 years previously. Also IIRC Cole was non too impressed during his time there and not likely to want a return. What you need to retain focus on is what were the positions of the clubs in the country at that point. Man Utd were by far the best team in the country with Blackburn closely following and then us. Blackburn had Shearer and had recently forked out £5m on Chris Sutton so it was unlikely they'd want him and you have to consider that in his position at that time Cole would want to move forward rather than sideways or backwards. Gillespie was never 'key to the deal'. Man United were only ever prepared to offer £6m cash for Cole and so offered a makeweight to make it up to the £7m fee. Keegan initially wanted Mark Hughes but he turned down the move citing that he didn't want to move away from the North West (ironically he fucked off to Chelsea soon afterwards ). When he learned Hughes was a no-go he enquired about Gillespie never believing for one minute that Ferguson would let him go. The rest is history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima 0 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 It was ridiculous how many 1-0 wins Man Utd amassed in that run in. Due to Cantona and Schmeichel Lost count of who many Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Other Team 0 there were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6308 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 It was ridiculous how many 1-0 wins Man Utd amassed in that run in. Due to Cantona and Schmeichel Lost count of who many Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Other Team 0 there were 22/01/1996 - West Ham 0 Man Utd 1 (Cantona) 08/04/1996 - Newcastle 0 Man Utd 1 (Cantona) 20/03/1996 - Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Arsenal 0 23/03/1996 - Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Spurs 0 08/04/1996 - Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Coventry 0 Also: FA Cup Final - Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Liverpool 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gordon McKeag Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 It was ridiculous how many 1-0 wins Man Utd amassed in that run in. Due to Cantona and Schmeichel Lost count of who many Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Other Team 0 there were 22/01/1996 - West Ham 0 Man Utd 1 (Cantona) 08/04/1996 - Newcastle 0 Man Utd 1 (Cantona) 20/03/1996 - Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Arsenal 0 23/03/1996 - Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Spurs 0 08/04/1996 - Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Coventry 0 Also: FA Cup Final - Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Liverpool 0 That was the game I knew we weren't gonna do it. I was at my sisters in London, watching it in a pub near her house with a mate, we'd been to Highbury to witness the worst performance of the season the day before (a 2-0 defeat), and Spurs looked like they'd get at least a point and had beaten them 4-1 a few month earlier, then Cantona scored with a shot that went through two players legs and in to the corner. Lucky lucky bastards. Everyone says it but its true, if we'd have won that title we'd have been up there for years without any doubt in this world. I don't think Man City or Tottenham have it them to become the type of club we nearly were, they don't have national appeal, we certainly had it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6308 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Sima has summed it up perfectly. We didn't lose the title - Man Utd, and specifically Cantona and Schmeichel, won it. And to think we could have had Schmeichel on our books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gordon McKeag Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Sima has summed it up perfectly. We didn't lose the title - Man Utd, and specifically Cantona and Schmeichel, won it. And to think we could have had Schmeichel on our books Sheffield Wednesday were a very good club circa 91-94 they had a very good squad too, came 3rd twice around that time iirc, I remember "90 MINUTES" tipped them to win the title one year, they had Cantona on trial before anyone else for a week thought he was good but would only pay 500k for him when Nimes wanted 750k. One of the biggest cases of if only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6308 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Sima has summed it up perfectly. We didn't lose the title - Man Utd, and specifically Cantona and Schmeichel, won it. And to think we could have had Schmeichel on our books Sheffield Wednesday were a very good club circa 91-94 they had a very good squad too, came 3rd twice around that time iirc, I remember "90 MINUTES" tipped them to win the title one year, they had Cantona on trial before anyone else for a week thought he was good but would only pay 500k for him when Nimes wanted 750k. One of the biggest cases of if only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima 0 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 It was ridiculous how many 1-0 wins Man Utd amassed in that run in. Due to Cantona and Schmeichel Lost count of who many Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Other Team 0 there were 22/01/1996 - West Ham 0 Man Utd 1 (Cantona) 08/04/1996 - Newcastle 0 Man Utd 1 (Cantona) 20/03/1996 - Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Arsenal 0 23/03/1996 - Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Spurs 0 08/04/1996 - Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Coventry 0 Also: FA Cup Final - Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Liverpool 0 That's not including all of the last minute draws they scraped as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6308 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 It was ridiculous how many 1-0 wins Man Utd amassed in that run in. Due to Cantona and Schmeichel Lost count of who many Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Other Team 0 there were 22/01/1996 - West Ham 0 Man Utd 1 (Cantona) 08/04/1996 - Newcastle 0 Man Utd 1 (Cantona) 20/03/1996 - Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Arsenal 0 23/03/1996 - Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Spurs 0 08/04/1996 - Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Coventry 0 Also: FA Cup Final - Man Utd 1 (Cantona) Liverpool 0 That's not including all of the last minute draws they scraped as well tbh they only had two draws (and two defeats) after New Year in 1996. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 The closest we've ever come to winning the league (since we last won it anyway) was after we sold Cole, which suggests it wasn't the mistake Sniffer is making it out to be. I never said selling Cole was a mistake. I said selling Cole to manu was an absurd decision because you don't sell a player like that to your main rivals. It set them up for years as almost 100 goals speaks for itself. Also, as things turned out, Ferdinand had only two years here before he was off to spurs whereas Cole had over five years at manu. I'd say that they got the best of that deal....meaning Keegan opting for a new direction in preferring Sir Les to Cole. Fair enough but we improved after we sold him, which was my point. If we'd won the league, which we nearly did, things would have been very different - i.e. Keegan staying etc. I do take your point btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6308 Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Weren't we considered one of Blackburn's main rivals when they sold us Shearer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Think they could be coming up this time like, they had a blip but are now playing well and scoring goals. Play offs at least. I think if they do come up they'd be far more susceptible to be relegated than we were last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 26980 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Think they could be coming up this time like, they had a blip but are now playing well and scoring goals. Play offs at least. I think if they do come up they'd be far more susceptible to be relegated than we were last season. Wishful thinking? As much as I dislike them, at least it's a game that gets your back up and provides a bit of atmosphere. Wigan, Fulham etc are very tame by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Castell 0 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) Weren't we considered one of Blackburn's main rivals when they sold us Shearer? Shearer left after Euro 96, when Ray Harford was our manager, so we'd already sank a bit by then. I think we finished about 7th the last season Shearer played for us,so we were not much good in defending our title in the 1995-96 season. We did try to replace Shearer with some Brazilian lad called Ronaldo, but he was already on his way to Barcelona. Now, this will probably piss you all off, but the story is that Shearer joined Newcastle because Walker flatly refused to let him be sold to Man Utd who he considered the biggest rivals to trophies. At least that is the story that I have often heard. That, and Shearer and Sutton hated each other so much, that Harford was not strong enough to stand up to Alan, and Newell was picked ahead of Chris during his reign. P.S. Leeds are cunts (just so I am vaguely on topic). Edited October 20, 2011 by Billy Castell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Weren't we considered one of Blackburn's main rivals when they sold us Shearer? Shearer left after Euro 96, when Ray Harford was our manager, so we'd already sank a bit by then. I think we finished about 7th the last season Shearer played for us,so we were not much good in defending our title in the 1995-96 season. We did try to replace Shearer with some Brazilian lad called Ronaldo, but he was already on his way to Barcelona. Now, this will probably piss you all off, but the story is that Shearer joined Newcastle because Walker flatly refused to let him be sold to Man Utd who he considered the biggest rivals to trophies. At least that is the story that I have often heard. That, and Shearer and Sutton hated each other so much, that Harford was not strong enough to stand up to Alan, and Newell was picked ahead of Chris during his reign. P.S. Leeds are cunts (just so I am vaguely on topic). everybody knows that man. (although other things have been well known/obvious too, to the majority), so I wouldn't hold my breath on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Castell 0 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I was just checking. Still, not a bad second choice though, your boyhood club and all that, with Keegan in full flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13883 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Funnily enough Sir Bobby wanted Shearer at Barcelona and ended up with Ronaldo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I don't believe the pish about Man Utd not having a bid accepted. I do believe Walker said £20m to them £15m to any cunt else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 16734 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 If Leeds did come up this season they would be straight back down. I know a lot of season ticket holders and they just fear for the club whilst Bates is in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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