Europe --- In or Out

[Renton 18543]

It's amazing all the bile and ignorance thrown at Ireland from Brexiters. I've repeatedly heard we have the upper hand because we will cripple them because "80% of republic exports go the UK". Erm, no. We're not even their largest market. 15% of republic exports go the UK, just ahead of Belgium. The biggest Victims of a hard border will be NI, the very people the DUP purport to represent. 

[ewerk 27297]

No more Riverdance or Jedward for the UK. That'll show you.

[ewerk 27297]

 

Even Ian is having his say from beyond the grave.

[Alex 31413]

Reminds me of that shyster who reckoned Princess Diana was pro-Brexit. 

[Park Life 71]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/30/investigatory_powers_act_illegal_under_eu_law/

[Ayatollah Hermione 13015]

6 hours ago, Alex said:

Reminds me of that shyster who reckoned Princess Diana was pro-Brexit. 

 

 Paul Burrell is such a laughing stock that pretending they had made contact with her ghostly spirit was considered a more credible source.

[ewerk 27297]

EU are standing with Ireland and saying that the UKs plans must be acceptable to Dublin or there’s no deal.

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

14 minutes ago, ewerk said:

EU are standing with Ireland and saying that the UKs plans must be acceptable to Dublin or there’s no deal.

 

The EU supply arms to the IRA so it's no surprise. 

[ewerk 27297]

:yawn: 

[Renton 18543]

50 minutes ago, Anorthernsoul said:

 

The EU supply arms to the IRA so it's no surprise. 

This is news to me. I'm surprised Farage hasn't made more of it. Then again, Farage's American buddies actually have been supplying arms to the IRA foe decades. Don't underestimate the American Irish lobby, it'll always Trump any "special relationship". 

[ewerk 27297]

Of course he’s talking bollocks. Most of their weapons came from Libya with some from USA.

[Alex 31413]

Good to see the BBC providing yet another opportunity for Farage to put forward his views again on Andrew Marr this morning. The fucking airtime that cunt has gotten and continues to receive is a disgrace 

[ewerk 27297]

And professional jizz bucket Jacob Rees Mogg. Who again tried to tell us that Ireland’s position being all about a vote of no confidence in the government despite the fact that was all put to bed last week.

[Meenzer 14245]

http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.co.uk/2017/12/why-brexiters-are-flummoxed-by-irish.html

 

 

[ewerk 27297]

Good article. It’s basically the impossible question. There is no chance of no border without NI/UK remaining in the CU. Not one workable solution has yet been floated.

[ewerk 27297]

BTW, did I miss the big debate on us leaving the single market and customs union? No one knew what Brexit meant until we were told what we were going to do by the Tory cabinet.

[Renton 18543]

1 hour ago, ewerk said:

BTW, did I miss the big debate on us leaving the single market and customs union? No one knew what Brexit meant until we were told what we were going to do by the Tory cabinet.

 

No. This idea the referendum was a mandate to leave the CU and SM is rewriting history. It's disgusting it is not challenged constantly.  

 

http://www.comresglobal.com/polls/bbc-news-brexit-expectations-poll/

[Rayvin 4987]

I think the conclusion that we need to leave the Single Market if we're going to leave the EU for the reasons given, is logical. We noted as soon as the referendum went through that 'leaving the EU' but staying in the single market would be completely pointless. Wouldn't deliver any of the things people thought they were voting for.

 

I think the government concluding that the only thing that doesn't look politically ridiculous, leaving the single market, is actually a fairly rational conclusion.

 

Still devastating for the country, but y'know.

[Renton 18543]

14 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I think the conclusion that we need to leave the Single Market if we're going to leave the EU for the reasons given, is logical. We noted as soon as the referendum went through that 'leaving the EU' but staying in the single market would be completely pointless. Wouldn't deliver any of the things people thought they were voting for.

 

I think the government concluding that the only thing that doesn't look politically ridiculous, leaving the single market, is actually a fairly rational conclusion.

 

Still devastating for the country, but y'know.

 

It's not pointless though. Otherwise why does Norway, Iceland etc resist full membership? Being an associate member like Norway would remove us from the political arm of the project. It would remove us from direct ECJ jurisdiction. And, as we would be out the CU but effectively in the SM via EEA, it would allow us to negotiate FTAs with other third countries.

 

Now personally I don't see many if any advantages in the above compared to the status quo, and it would still cause huge problems for NI, but it would without a doubt fulfill the remit of leaving the EU and is the absolutely obvious compromise imo given the closeness of the vote and actual expectations.  

[Rayvin 4987]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

It's not pointless though. Otherwise why does Norway, Iceland etc resist full membership? Being an associate member like Norway would remove us from the political arm of the project. It would remove us from direct ECJ jurisdiction. And, as we would be out the CU but effectively in the SM via EEA, it would allow us to negotiate FTAs with other third countries.

 

Now personally I don't see many if any advantages in the above compared to the status quo, and it would still cause huge problems for NI, but it would without a doubt fulfill the remit of leaving the EU and is the absolutely obvious compromise imo given the closeness of the vote and actual expectations.  

 

Was under the impression Norway was in a similar bind to us. Electorate too stupid to go for it but their political classes believe they should be fully integrated.

[Renton 18543]

7 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

Was under the impression Norway was in a similar bind to us. Electorate too stupid to go for it but their political classes believe they should be fully integrated.

Well, norway is nothing like us in terms of wealth and wants autonomy over fishing and agriculture. But the point is it's a lie to suggest leaving the SM was the inevitable conclusion, and it is provable that most people didn't want this or expect it.

 

Or to put it in your terms, May has made a false narrative which nobody is properly interrogating or opposing. But this concerns the most important decision for our country in a lifetime.

 

Or to put it in CT terms, we've been sold a pup.

[ewerk 27297]

If only our parliamentary system provided some method of 'opposing' the work of the government.

[Gemmill 36732]

Bizarre that we haven't managed to reach agreement with Ireland. They'd reached agreement in the middle of last week according to CT. 

[ewerk 27297]

With David Davies in the negotiating seat I expect we'll see an agreement whereby the UK gives back Northern Ireland and they'll throw in Scotland, the North Sea oil and the Crown jewels.

[ewerk 27297]

The Irish have confirmed that they've received no text from the British to examine in their cabinet meeting. Not looking great yet for the UK.