Rayvin 4970 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 We do have a say... Britain could veto it. We are choosing not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4970 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) The French are currently vetoing it ffs, of course we could do the same if we wanted to. The Tories don't want to. This is no different to if we were outside the EU and the Tories were in power. Â This is a non-argument, surely? Edited June 17, 2016 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4003 Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 Washington has now released a statement setting out that the US ties to Britain will cool significantly if brexit occurs, given that our value to them is as a bridge into Europe. They have expressed deep concern about the developments and the weakening of a key ally (The EU). Â I know you don't care CT, but honestly, this is going to be a monumental fuck up. Have a word with yourself man! Â Just because I have a different view to you doesn't mean I don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4970 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Have a word with yourself man! Â Just because I have a different view to you doesn't mean I don't care. I meant care about what the US/global economists/experts/politicians think. Â I've assume you care about the debate by virtue of the debate we're having. I assume you don't care what the US thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4003 Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 We do have a say... Britain could veto it. We are choosing not to. We can't, according to the huffington post. Â http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/10442084.html?edition=uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4970 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) So that article sets out that it could be currently vetoed, but that the EU will change it so that it can't be. They haven't yet of course, and so the UK absolutely could veto it. Â I feel this is a non-argument. Edited June 17, 2016 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4003 Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 The French are currently vetoing it ffs, of course we could do the same if we wanted to. The Tories don't want to. This is no different to if we were outside the EU and the Tories were in power. Â This is a non-argument, surely? Of course it is. What if Labour were in power? Who knows when a deal would be agreed? We're at "the back of the queue" remember. Â NHS protection could be eaten away at in the EU version of TTIP. Any party negotiating a British only deal would be much more wary of public opinion and would ensure safeguards were in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4970 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I dunno, we look totally ready to go balls deep into TTIP looking at the conservatives presently, and given that we're all certain Labour are unelectable, what difference does any of this even make? Farage and Johnson are going to be in charge of the country now, by the sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4003 Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 I meant care about what the US/global economists/experts/politicians think. Â I've assume you care about the debate by virtue of the debate we're having. I assume you don't care what the US thinks. I think a lot of countries / large corporations have vested interests in us remaining. Im not convinced that automatically means their interests are necessarily in the best interests of the man in the street. Hence why I quite like the idea of being able to vote the people making the decisions out every 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4003 Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 I dunno, we look totally ready to go balls deep into TTIP looking at the conservatives presently, and given that we're all certain Labour are unelectable, what difference does any of this even make? Farage and Johnson are going to be in charge of the country now, by the sounds. Things can change very quickly in politics. Each party only lasts in government so long. If we are out, UKIP will have served its purpose and Labour voters could return to the flock. Â Next government could quite easily be a Labour / SNP alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4003 Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 Up in 5 hours so goodnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4970 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 If I believed that elections in this country made the blindest bit of difference, maybe I'd get that point. It wouldn't remove the economic problems of leaving, but it'd be a good political point. But look at our system mate. The Tories won the election by shifting to the centre and beating Labour out of it. Labour tried to clamber back into the centre and failed, ending up with the unelectable Corbyn as leader. People feel Labour should have a centre ground political leader again. Â Problem is, the Tories are still in the centre. So tell me what meaningful change can come about with both parties vying for the centre. New Labour would have voted TTIP through same as the Tories. Corbyn maybe wouldn't but you and others on here think he's an irrelevance. So what safeguard is he offering exactly? None whatsoever beyond a hypothetical one that involves a series of events you don't feel would ever happen. Â This is clutching at straws. If you believe that we're better off out of the EU, you're stating that in full knowledge, and indeed full denial of, much of the well researched analysis conducted by experts the world over. That's fine, you're free to do so. And indeed there are even reasons to do so - avoidance of watering down British culture, pride concerning which group of elites tells us what to do, and making sure jobs that British people don't take are not taken by foreigners. But don't go into this thinking that we're all totally wrong in our fears, because we aren't. Â The only virtue to this is that, given that brexit looks likely, the i told you so's will be all over this thread. No consolation really, but maybe it'll help me explain to my children what the fuck happened when we turned out backs on our friends in Europe due to petty isolationism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4970 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Things can change very quickly in politics. Each party only lasts in government so long. If we are out, UKIP will have served its purpose and Labour voters could return to the flock. Â Next government could quite easily be a Labour / SNP alliance. I don't think I'd be able to vote for Labour if that happened. I don't think I could consider my views aligned with those who 'flocked' back. I wonder if I'd be alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4970 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Up in 5 hours so goodnight Fair enough - g'night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26803 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 We'll be able to protect the NHS? As if anyone needed any further evidence that you're on the windup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ 0 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 As someone who has campaigned against TTIP for the past two years, don't think for a second that the Tories don't want it. We went to Holyrood and allowed every MSP to sign a pledge board to exempt the NHS from TTIP last year. SNP, Labour and Greens were no problem. Tories and Lib Dems wouldn't. Lib Dems said nothing. Tories told us we were all idiots for thinking the NHS was under threat from TTIP. Â We spent 2 years in my area badgering David Mundell about it, who amazingly still speaks to me despite giving him loads of grief. We were all over the media one day in 2014 talking about it in Scotland, and Mundell felt the need to appear on everything telling us (and me as I was on the TV being awesome ) we were all confused idiots. Telling us he had a letter from Jean-Luc Demarty of the European commission telling them it was no threat to TTIP. A letter we then badgered and badgered them to see. Which we never saw. Then we wrote to Demarty for a response, who never got back to us. Â It's not like the Tories didn't know you could use a veto on an area either. America used it to veto their own financial services, and the French used it for media before then getting even more suspicious and threatening not to sign it at all as they are now. Â Other groups around Britain badgered Cameron, Jeremy Hunt, and basically anyone in the cabinet to pledge to an exemption from TTIP for the NHS. It's only in the last few weeks that Cameron, frightened of losing an EU referendum as well as a backbench rebellion in his own party on TTIP, has actually shown signs of finally admitting what they have been denying for the last few years to be true. Â Of course, if the UK wants to become part of the EEA after a Brexit, then it would by default have no say on TTIP, apart from making exemptions. Thus being in the exact same position we'd be in if we voted Remain, or indeed, if this referendum wasn't happening at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) The BOE haven't made any projections for a post-Brexit world. Their forecasting is all based on the status quo. I know this cos it's part of my job to review the MPC minutes and read their quarterly inflation report. They have said that Brexit poses domestic and global risks though, but that's as far as they've gone. Â In other words, CT is wrong again. And what were your creditials for backing Souness? Edited June 18, 2016 by TheGingerQuiff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Oh and a LOT of thick cunts at the company I work for are voting for brexit, despite working in an already volatile automotive industry. Their attempts to eloquently discuss the economy and trade agreements etc usually last around 2 minutes before the first mention of the word "paki" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Our company has already said they support remain which hasn't changed their mind either. Turkeys voting for Christmas like Renton said. I hope if there's layoffs these cunts go first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 35515 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 And what were your creditials for backing Souness?Never mind turning up here in the early morning, Mexican Viagra still pumping through your veins, and trying to get frisky with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 20150 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 (edited) Have a word with yourself man! Â Just because I don't have a clue what I'm talking about doesn't mean I don't care. Fyp Edited June 18, 2016 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 20150 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 I don't know how anyone can easily dismiss this https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/18/imf-says-brexit-would-trigger-uk-recession-eu-referendum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18049 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 I don't know how anyone can easily dismiss this https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/18/imf-says-brexit-would-trigger-uk-recession-eu-referendum Because "We can stop sending the £350m we pay Brussels every week" stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 20150 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Bank of England: economy will be hit hard if Britain leaves EU Â https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/16/bank-of-england-economy-will-be-hit-hard-if-britain-leaves-eu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26803 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 I don't know how anyone can easily dismiss this https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/18/imf-says-brexit-would-trigger-uk-recession-eu-referendum One of the mildest recessions of recent times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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