Europe --- In or Out

[ewerk 26792]

3 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

She thinks she can. I do understand yours and Rentons views on this and desire for all leavers to henceforth live their lives with a brown paper bag of shame on their heads, but today we still have a PM / Government stating that they can get a bespoke deal that delivers everything most leavers wanted.

 

When they say that is no longer possible then of course we shall move on to blaming the government for its handling of it and remainers for talking the country down.

It isn't a matter of whether we believe she can do it, it simply isn't possible.

Let's try a very loose anology you might understand. 

You and the family are out for a walk on holiday and after hours of walking you're all starving and stumble across a McDonalds. You walk in and stride up to the counter and demand a duck pizza. The server politely tells you that they don't serve duck pizza but you're welcome to order anything from the menu in front of you. Again you demand a duck pizza and the server smiles and repeats that it isn't possible. Meanwhile your missus is in your ear telling you that she wants a Whopper and your eldest daugther is shouting that she wants a Zinger Tower meal. Your other two kids are sitting back embarassed at your behaviour and are happy with a Big Mac. Finally you tell the server that the Dominos ten miles down the road will give you a duck pizza and threaten to walk out and go there. The server knows this isn't true but says you're welcome to try.

What do you do, CT? Do you take the Big Mac that's on offer or do you wander in the dark looking for your duck pizza?

[Christmas Tree 4003]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

 

Would that wash for your average brexiter? There's two issues as I see it. First, it's transparently obvious the EU can't add Nd won't budge on maintaining the integrity of the SM. I mean even you have now figured that out. And second, blaming the EU will be scant consolation when we lose our industries. 

 

I don't understand why she doesn't just face down the ERG, now. They're a bunch of cowards who are all bluster.

 

There’s obviously a body of people who believe that our long term future is best served totally free to trade how we like without any external EU tarrifs. They would see the “short term” worry about over protecting a small minority of industries with very complex supply chains as ridiculous.

 

I don’t agree btw.

[Renton 18036]

1 minute ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

There’s obviously a body of people who believe that our long term future is best served totally free to trade how we like without any external EU tarrifs. They would see the “short term” worry about over protecting a small minority of industries with very complex supply chains as ridiculous.

 

I don’t agree btw.

 

Yes, and have you seen who those people are and what they really want? Read Minford. Read "Brittania Unchained". It's absolutely chilling what these bastards want to do to this country and our region in particular, and you've aligned yourself with them. They've played you and your average Mackem like a fiddle.

[Christmas Tree 4003]

5 minutes ago, ewerk said:

It isn't a matter of whether we believe she can do it, it simply isn't possible.

Let's try a very loose anology you might understand. 

You and the family are out for a walk on holiday and after hours of walking you're all starving and stumble across a McDonalds. You walk in and stride up to the counter and demand a duck pizza. The server politely tells you that they don't serve duck pizza but you're welcome to order anything from the menu in front of you. Again you demand a duck pizza and the server smiles and repeats that it isn't possible. Meanwhile your missus is in your ear telling you that she wants a Whopper and your eldest daugther is shouting that she wants a Zinger Tower meal. Your other two kids are sitting back embarassed at your behaviour and are happy with a Big Mac. Finally you tell the server that the Dominos ten miles down the road will give you a duck pizza and threaten to walk out and go there. The server knows this isn't true but says you're welcome to try.

What do you do, CT? Do you take the Big Mac that's on offer or do you wander in the dark looking for your duck pizza?

 

 I’ve only ever had one duck pizza!!!!!

 

The problem is a couple of lads on a football board doesn’t outweigh a PM / government of the day saying the opposite.

 

 

[ewerk 26792]

5 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

There’s obviously a body of people who believe that our long term future is best served totally free to trade how we like without any external EU tarrifs. They would see the “short term” worry about over protecting a small minority of industries with very complex supply chains as ridiculous.

 

I don’t agree btw.

You're talking about over 800,000 employees in the automotive industry alone. It's 12% of our exports. That's not to mention all the other industries that use JIT. You can't dismiss it as a minor issue.

[Christmas Tree 4003]

3 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Yes, and have you seen who those people are and what they really want? Read Minford. Read "Brittania Unchained". It's absolutely chilling what these bastards want to do to this country and our region in particular, and you've aligned yourself with them. They've played you and your average Mackem like a fiddle.

 

So tell me, what does JC want to do to this region if he gets his wish of leaving the SM?

[ewerk 26792]

2 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 I’ve only ever had one duck pizza!!!!!

 

The problem is a couple of lads on a football board doesn’t outweigh a PM / government of the day saying the opposite.

 

 

No, but it doesn't mean we're wrong. Theresa May knows that we're right but is dealing with massive political pressure. If we had a referendum tomorrow whether to slash income tax to 10% across the board it would pass despite the fact that it would be disastrous for our country. Sometimes we need politicians to save us from ourselves.

[Christmas Tree 4003]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

You're talking about over 800,000 employees in the automotive industry alone. It's 12% of our exports. That's not to mention all the other industries that use JIT. You can't dismiss it as a minor issue.

 

I didnt

[ewerk 26792]

Just now, Christmas Tree said:

 

I didnt

But you're happy to gamble with the futures of those 800,000 employees?

[Renton 18036]

2 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 I’ve only ever had one duck pizza!!!!!

 

The problem is a couple of lads on a football board doesn’t outweigh a PM / government of the day saying the opposite.

 

 

 

I'm still staggered by your naivety. You still trust May after all this time.

 

It's not just me and ewerk. You've made the mistake of trusting politicians, Tory ones at that. Maybe you should trust the civil service, virtually every economist, scientists, medics, lawyers, and business leaders instead. Hmmm, what can we call these people? Ahh yes, let's call them experts.

[Renton 18036]

3 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

So tell me, what does JC want to do to this region if he gets his wish of leaving the SM?

 

JC is an utter fool. 

[Christmas Tree 4003]

3 minutes ago, ewerk said:

But you're happy to gamble with the futures of those 800,000 employees?

 

I’m not, I believe that we’ll get a deal.

[Christmas Tree 4003]

4 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

I'm still staggered by your naivety. You still trust May after all this time.

 

It's not just me and ewerk. You've made the mistake of trusting politicians, Tory ones at that. Maybe you should trust the civil service, virtually every economist, scientists, medics, lawyers, and business leaders instead. Hmmm, what can we call these people? Ahh yes, let's call them experts.

 

Or maybe trust democracy?

[Alex 30758]

7 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

So tell me, what does JC want to do to this region if he gets his wish of leaving the SM?

Didn’t you think about that before you voted for him? 

[ewerk 26792]

Just now, Christmas Tree said:

 

I’m not, I believe that we’ll get a deal.

But you already have, we've seen JLR moving jobs out of the country. We've seen high street jobs lost that can partly be blamed in the fall in the value of the pound. These people are losing their jobs because of Brexit.

With just six weeks left of negotiations we don't even have an agreed approach to our future relationship with the EU nevermind any sort of plan as to how we're going to trade with the rest of the world.

[Renton 18036]

Just now, Christmas Tree said:

 

I’m not, I believe that we’ll get a deal.

And what if you're wrong? Do you know what gamble actually means?

 

I suspect I'm going to hear the sounds of goal posts moving again. 

[Christmas Tree 4003]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

And what if you're wrong? Do you know what gamble actually means?

 

I suspect I'm going to hear the sounds of goal posts moving again. 

 

If we get no deal then I’m sure we’ll end up in some Norway or similar arrangement and all will be well.

[Renton 18036]

1 minute ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Or maybe trust democracy?

 

I believe in representative democracy. Seriously, 99% of people had never heard of, say, the customs union, before the referendum. Joe public wasn't qualified to make an informed decision on something as complex and important as this. And yes, I will always take the informed opinion of an expert over the man in the street. I also believe in evidence based policy. This government doesn't hence the mess we are in. 

[Dr Gloom 20136]

5 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

I’m not, I believe that we’ll get a deal.

Oh, we’ll get a deal alright. A really shit one, as dictated by the EU, leaving the country much poorer, both economically and reputationally, than before Brexit. 

But we’ll have taken back control of our borders, kind of, so there’s that. 

[Christmas Tree 4003]

5 minutes ago, ewerk said:

But you already have, we've seen JLR moving jobs out of the country. We've seen high street jobs lost that can partly be blamed in the fall in the value of the pound. These people are losing their jobs because of Brexit.

With just six weeks left of negotiations we don't even have an agreed approach to our future relationship with the EU nevermind any sort of plan as to how we're going to trade with the rest of the world.

 

Thats stretching things chucking the high street in

 

Thats been going in one direction only for years, just like local branches and that’s all down to your gadget generation

 

Ofcourse also discarding the 500,000 jobs created since Brexit. 

[Renton 18036]

2 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

If we get no deal then I’m sure we’ll end up in some Norway or similar arrangement and all will be well.

 

Worse than we have now then. There's also the chance of accidental crash out. I don't mind you gambling with your life. I resent you gambling with my life and my kids though.

[ewerk 26792]

6 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

If we get no deal then I’m sure we’ll end up in some Norway or similar arrangement and all will be well.

I'm not sure you understand what no deal means.

To paraphrase Theresa May, no deal mean NO DEAL.

[ewerk 26792]

5 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Thats stretching things chucking the high street in

 

Thats been going in one direction only for years, just like local branches and that’s all down to your gadget generation

 

Ofcourse also discarding the 500,000 jobs created since Brexit. 

You don't think that Poundworld has suffered because of the weak pound? Other businesses will have suffered because we're poorer now than we would have been if we voted to remain.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

11 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Thats stretching things chucking the high street in

 

Thats been going in one direction only for years, just like local branches and that’s all down to your gadget generation

 

Ofcourse also discarding the 500,000 jobs created since Brexit. 

 

WE HAVEN'T LEFT YET.

 

As you were.

[ewerk 26792]

Alright, Liam.