ChezGiven 0 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 The style of football was very similar though. And since the line between 3 points and 0 points is so thin at times, those 8 points dont justify a change in judgement of the manager from very good to very shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 And since the line between 3 points and 0 points is so thin at times, those 8 points dont justify a change in judgement of the manager from very good to very shit. I agree. It's not all black & white after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Our general play has been poor this season I don't think anyone is arguing that. What is up for debate is the reasons. Even at our peak last year we were nicking quite a few results by staying solid and strikers scoring one off chances and wonder goals. The stats show we are now categorically a long ball side. There is no crime in nicking results the top sides continue to do it (look at the guff defensive performances of ManU for instance). Like Tooj I want us to commit to a more passing and slower tempo game (we have shown in patches this is possible). Marveux especially has looked more comfortable on the ball and rarely loses it in tight spots often finding a pass. Obertan at long last looks a threat in his 10min or so a game when he is focussed. The more physical game that we deploy with longer passing and fighting for the second ball is counter to the make up of our side with its smaller and more nimble players all over the park (Cabaye, Anita, Marveux, Hatem, Santon). The type of hurried recycling of play Pards seems to prefer is better suited to the clodhoppers in the league: West ham, Reading, Stoke etc.. It was quite something the other night watching Soton hold their nerve and pass it around and out pass and out think Chelsea to the point. Their side is nowhere near ours with regard to quality. There was a point against Arsenal at 3-2 or summink when our passing and movement was as good as theirs. In the end we lost that game cause we were obvioulsy tired in the last 10-15min. We have to remind ourselves what a cogent side they. The PL is a very dangerous league as ManC, Arsenal and ManU have found out this year, smaller sides have little fear of the bigger teams quite unlike SerieA or LaLiga. All the blue chip defences have been misfiring - those sides have got through only with the aid of world class striker forces. Norwich and West ham are slowly falling off their peak now (WHam are clearly half a side without Diame) and WBA have probably had their good run. Jan onwards the weight of squad strength and mental strength comes into its own. Could there be a huge turnaround in our fortunes? I wouldn't discount it. I'm not in the Pardew camp by any means, but I am aware that he is far shrewder than I gave him credit for even last year. Edited January 18, 2013 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4004 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 The style of football was very similar though. I dont think it was. I think the start to last season was quite a mixed bunch with Barton still playing, Taylor at Left Back, Jonas was still being pushed more forward and we had the likes of Obertan and Best playing as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I dont think it was. I think the start to last season was quite a mixed bunch with Barton still playing, Taylor at Left Back, Jonas was still being pushed more forward and we had the likes of Obertan and Best playing as well. All you've done is mentioned different personnel but haven't stated why the style of playing was different barring Jonas. Yet I remember Jonas playing quite deep to protect Ryan Taylor like he has been doing with Santon now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 True. I heard a story the Spanish royals pressured banks to give Real whatever they needed. There was some media coverage in Spain a while back about how both Real and Barcelona are 'built upon mountains of debt'. Both clubs owe (despite substantial write offs and injections of capital) around half a billion each. If you then factor in the revenue growth they both have had in their privileged position in the top 2 of Spanish football with (debt-financed) guarantees of entering the Champions league, any 'analysis' of 'comparison' of turnover between those 2 clubs and virtually any other in the world is redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 There was some media coverage in Spain a while back about how both Real and Barcelona are 'built upon mountains of debt'. Both clubs owe (despite substantial write offs and injections of capital) around half a billion each. If you then factor in the revenue growth they both have had in their privileged position in the top 2 of Spanish football with (debt-financed) guarantees of entering the Champions league, any 'analysis' of 'comparison' of turnover between those 2 clubs and virtually any other in the world is redundant. Is it just Spanish football that has the individual TV deals as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4004 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I agree. It's not all black & white after all. I think the truer picture may be that Pardew is a poor manager who flattered to deceive due to a number of reasons but now has returned to past form. We'll soon see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Is it just Spanish football that has the individual TV deals as well? Of the major 5 leagues, i believe so. I'd have to check to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4004 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 All you've done is mentioned different personnel but haven't stated why the style of playing was different barring Jonas. Yet I remember Jonas playing quite deep to protect Ryan Taylor like he has been doing with Santon now. For Example. 442 with Ba and Cisse didnt work. It was clear as day it didnt work yet Pardew persisted with it. At no point did it occur to him to return to the 443 with Ba out wide that produced such great results Jan - May last year. The free kick to Mike Williamson is pants. We all know it, Why did / does Pardew persist? Substitutions on the whole this season have been crap at best. There are other nuances of the game you can guess at but are hard to substantiate as to the way he decides to set the team out to play, mindset. EG Debuchy looked quite poor going forward on his debut but we now learn that he was given instructions to temper his attacking side. Even little Shane. Looked at ferocious scamp pelting down the wing in the past but has now been turned almost into a Jonas type sit back and hold that space type player. Do you still think Pardew is a good manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 We never played the 4-3-3 from Jan to May last year. We played it from West Brom away (March 24th) to Wigan away (April 28th.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 You're still not answering my question about how our style of play has differentiated between up until Jan last season to this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 You're still in the honeymoon period so your posts may safely be igonored till you get back in the cellar with your charts innit. Honeymoon period? I agree we're shite...my point is we were last year too, just the tight games have gone the wrong way this time and taken away all the momentum/belief we built up then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Honeymoon period? I agree we're shite...my point is we were last year too, just the tight games have gone the wrong way this time and taken away all the momentum/belief we built up then. Momentum is such a big thing in the PL. You can see the difference even when the players come onto the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Of the major 5 leagues, i believe so. I'd have to check to be sure. Italy as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 There was some media coverage in Spain a while back about how both Real and Barcelona are 'built upon mountains of debt'. Both clubs owe (despite substantial write offs and injections of capital) around half a billion each. If you then factor in the revenue growth they both have had in their privileged position in the top 2 of Spanish football with (debt-financed) guarantees of entering the Champions league, any 'analysis' of 'comparison' of turnover between those 2 clubs and virtually any other in the world is redundant. If we don't go down and we get our 42m ish next year that will be a quantum moment for the club. In all other fiancial areas we are now one of the soundest in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4004 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 You're still not answering my question about how our style of play has differentiated between up until Jan last season to this season. Ive tried my best but you are just discounting everything. Different players, different styles of play. This year it was 442 with hoof balls to the front two, who couldnt play together or giving the ball to Ben Arfa and hope he would produce some magic by cutting in. Last year regardless of whether you liked him, Obertan was more a race down the line type player. Best and Shola / Ba seemed to work better than Cisse and Ba. Cabaye and other midfielders saw more of the ball last year than simply watching it go over their head this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 I disagree. We played very direct football around this time last year too. One of the things mentioned about Cabaye was how disappointed people were that he wasn't controlling games as much as he should due to the ball being played straight upto the centre forwards. Only difference being Ba and Best worked as a partnership as Best was prepared to do all of the donkey work. The difference was though we were getting results with that style so it wasn't scrutinised as much as it has been now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Also you said you've tried your best but you haven't actually said what you would call the type of football we were playing the first half of last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Ive tried my best but you are just discounting everything. Different players, different styles of play. This year it was 442 with hoof balls to the front two, who couldnt play together or giving the ball to Ben Arfa and hope he would produce some magic by cutting in. Last year regardless of whether you liked him, Obertan was more a race down the line type player. Best and Shola / Ba seemed to work better than Cisse and Ba. Cabaye and other midfielders saw more of the ball last year than simply watching it go over their head this year. Last season we averaged 67 long balls per game, this season 73. Hardly a massive increase. Last season it was 19 crosses per game. This season 25 crosses. Like cowbell though, however we play, your cry goes up "more crosses". If you want to go back to last season you should be asking for less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4004 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Momentum is such a big thing in the PL. You can see the difference even when the players come onto the park. As I said after 10 games. We started the season with (virtually) the same squad. None of the big players were sold. Its the style of play that has changed. Ba's situation has caused Pardew to try and patch together a team and formation that has continually back fired all season. His over cautious approach has left us on the back foot rather than the front. This has worn down the moral of the team and the confidence of individuals. We are now left with a sorry, nervy bunch taking to the field who seem devoid of any ideas to turn it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 We were very cautious for most of last season. Parky and I have both mentioned the changing motivational psychology, the style has not changed, the level of caution hasnt really changed, therefore that post after 10 games didnt make any sense then either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13915 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Substitutions on the whole this season have been crap at best. Because there's been nobody on the bench worth bringing on half the time. Was it Southampton away he brought Sammy & Shane on. GAME CHANGER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Nah I think he took Ferguson off at half-time or around that mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13915 Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Might have been a different game. I remember being underwhelmed. Either way the point remains - give him a better squad & the substitutions wont seem as bad. He's hardly got a bench full of ''purple'' players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now